Debates of October 14, 2004 (day 20)

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I have a few more questions in regard to the North Slave Correctional Centre. I would like to go back to what the Minister was saying in terms of his being satisfied with the staffing levels at the North Slave Correctional Centre. I would like to ask him how he maintains his satisfaction level when, in the last four years, his department has gone through no less than three wardens, five deputy wardens, three deputy wardens of programs, and three deputy wardens of administration? How is that satisfaction? What is the Minister’s definition of satisfied? Has he or his department got any long-term senior management plan for that facility? Perhaps stabilizing these key positions would be a good start. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

---Applause

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay. There are probably two or three questions there. Minister of Justice, Mr. Dent.

Return To Question 222-15(3): Senior Management Turnover At The North Slave Correctional Centre

Mr. Speaker, I heard way more than two. I am not sure I can remember them all, in fact. We were talking about staffing and vacancies earlier. I pointed out that the number of vacancies has reduced over the past year and is going down very quickly because of the numbers of new trainees who started on October 4th. The Member has pointed out that there have been some changes. We have had a lot of changes related to people working in new positions and learning more about their jobs. There is ongoing training. The training programs are being set up to be online training programs so that all of the staff can participate in them. They can study at their own speed and move forward to take advantage of opportunities. There has been a lot of use of secondment in order to take advantage of knowledge from people from other jurisdictions, for instance. We have had people on secondment from Corrections Canada so that we…

---Laughter

Excuse me. Sorry, Mr. Speaker. We have taken advantage of people’s knowledge from Corrections Canada by bringing them into the system. I am aware of a number of other changes that have been made in order to further opportunities for people for personal growth so that they can apply successfully on senior positions as they open up. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Dent. Time for question period has expired, but, Mr. Ramsay, I will allow you a supplementary question.

Supplementary To Question 222-15(3): Senior Management Turnover At The North Slave Correctional Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. As part of my four questions, the last one was, if the department had a long-term senior management plan in place for that facility, and by the sounds of it, it is a revolving door, Mr. Speaker. I didn’t hear in the Minister’s response whether or not they indeed had a plan to try to get some stability in these key positions. By the sounds of it, they are moving people in and out at will. I think that is part of the problem that is currently at play at the North Slave Correctional Centre. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay. Mr. Dent.

Further Return To Question 222-15(3): Senior Management Turnover At The North Slave Correctional Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. As I said, we have been trying to take advantage secondments to learn from other people. Yes, we have continuous training going on. We have people who work within the Department of Justice to help the staff in all of our facilities develop their skills so that they are better managers. Yes, we are working with staff to try and improve the jobs that they do. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Dent. Supplementary, Mr. Ramsay.

Supplementary To Question 222-15(3): Senior Management Turnover At The North Slave Correctional Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I go back to something else the Minister said. That is in regards to people speaking out. The Minister said that they wouldn’t be hung out to dry. In my experience, Mr. Speaker, these people have had a bull’s eye squarely put on their back. I don’t think that is fair. I wanted to ask the Minister why he said this would happen, when, in fact, through my experience, it happens. People that speak out are painted with a bull’s eye squarely on their back and they are left to fend for themselves in that type of environment. It is not fair, Mr. Speaker. I just want the Minister to clarify what he meant that they wouldn’t be hung out to dry. In some instances, they definitely are. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay. Mr. Dent.

Further Return To Question 222-15(3): Senior Management Turnover At The North Slave Correctional Centre

Mr. Speaker, that is pure speculation on the Member’s part, that that would happen here. I don’t believe that it would. I don’t think that the department or the administration now is interested in doing that. I think the interest is genuinely there to make sure that we are doing procedures properly and to identify areas if we are not so that we can strengthen the good and replace the bad. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Dent. Final supplementary, Mr. Ramsay.

Supplementary To Question 222-15(3): Senior Management Turnover At The North Slave Correctional Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I have some more questions, and perhaps tomorrow I will ask these questions, but the last question I have for the Minister today is I just wanted to know how this experiment of going from a security type of institutional setting that typifies a correctional facility to this healing and holistic type of programming is going. What success has been seen to date? If I could, Mr. Speaker, I also wanted to ask how including federal inmates that are housed in the North Slave Correctional Centre impacts this healing and holistic approach and how they are dealt with with the federal inmates as well? Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay. Mr. Dent.

Further Return To Question 222-15(3): Senior Management Turnover At The North Slave Correctional Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My learned colleague on the other side has certainly found a way to get in 23 questions when you are only supposed to have four. I will answer those last two, though. In regards to including the federal inmates within the population, it is important to remember that the institution is not maximum security. So the types of individuals who would be considered for placement there by Corrections Canada are going to be consistent with the type of individual that we have in the population generally right now. We certainly take a look at people. If somebody is not suitable to the population, they don’t have to stay within our population. They could find themselves transferred to an institution down south very quickly if they turn out to be not suitable. I have been aware of a number of times that that has happened just in the months that I have been Minister. I know that that sort of issue is watched very carefully. In terms of whether or not this experiment has turned out to be a success, that is like asking, after we expand schooling to include kindergarten, whether or not it is a success after six months. You can’t say that. It is way too early to give that sort of answer. This will take a number of years to prove whether or not it was the right thing to do. What we do know is that the old standard of throwing them into jail and throwing away the key wasn’t working. It wasn’t accomplishing anything. It wasn’t helping people to stop from coming back. Jail was just a revolving door. They got out, they came back. There was nothing that we could point to that was helping people to become ready to participate in society. We are hoping that this experiment will work, but it will be some time before you can point to empirical evidence to show it. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.