Debates of October 17, 2006 (day 9)

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I’ve made it amply clear here today that I believe literacy is key to a person’s success, both economically, socially, it goes a long way. So, Mr. Speaker, I’d like to know today, the Minister is clear to me when he said he spoke to the NWT Literacy Council to ensure that we can be there to help. So I want to find out what the Minister has in his back pocket as a plan if the federal government does not reinstate these unnecessary, ridiculous cuts. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Hawkins. Mr. Dent.

Further Return To Question 103-15(5): Federal Reductions To Literacy Program Funding

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I want to make it clear that we were not consulted about these cuts. The federal government chose to make and announce these cuts arbitrarily. So we’re not in a position where I can reach into my back pocket today and replace the money that has been lost. I do want to make the point, though, that this government is already putting, and continues to put, significantly more money into literacy than what the federal government has cut. I intend to keep working with the federal Minister, Diane Finley, and I will be encouraging her to ensure that the federal government finds some way to reinvest in literacy programming in the Northwest Territories, in particular in light of the federal responsibility for improving literacy programming for aboriginal people. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, in my opening Member’s statement I quoted the Premier talking about six to 12 months, very critical for people of the Northwest Territories. Mr. Speaker, it’s well known in the House as the Northwest Territories that the North is leaving a lot of millions of dollars in Ottawa’s pocket and staying on not leaving enough in the Northwest Territories. I want to ask the Premier what plans are in place in determining that Canada will give a fair deal to the people of the Northwest Territories so we won’t have to keep going back to a kid’s constituency and we say we’re broke, we have no money and our lives are in shambles, buildings are down, and, you know, we keep coming back here saying we’re broke. What plans are in place in terms of gathering, assembling some people in the Northwest Territories to get Ottawa here to say enough is enough, give us what is rightfully ours? What plans are in place for the North? Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Yakeleya. The honourable Premier, Mr. Handley.

Return To Question 104-15(5): Devolution And Resource Revenue Sharing Negotiations

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. There are two main actions which we are taking. As the Member knows, the Prime Minister has committed that we should be the primary beneficiaries and, following that, there has been the two reports on fiscal imbalance; both of them sided with our government. Following that, Minister Flaherty has indicated that he’s meeting with the Finance Ministers in December and at that time it is expected that he will be putting forward a proposal on territorial formula financing. So, Mr. Speaker, that will be the first action on that front.

Mr. Speaker, the other one has to do with devolution and resource revenue sharing. Clearly, these two are high. We cannot accept program responsibility without the revenues to be able to afford to pay for those programs. Mr. Speaker, we’ve made that known. The federal government have appointed a new federal negotiator for devolution. I have met with him and my indications from him is that he has a broader mandate than the previous federal negotiator, David Peterson, and his mandate will go into some of the areas regarding the fiscal side as well. So I expect our negotiators to be getting together soon. I don’t have a date, but I know that they have talked. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Handley. Supplementary, Mr. Yakeleya.

Supplementary To Question 104-15(5): Devolution And Resource Revenue Sharing Negotiations

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, can the Premier inform the House here, inform the people in our region in terms of the second issue talks about devolution and resource revenue sharing in terms of what plans are in place to get the aboriginal governments, the businesspeople, the people in the Northwest Territories to say this is a good deal, it can’t wait any longer, we have to do something? Because right now we are still, in the eyes of the federal government, I believe, wards of the state of the federal government and we’re still little kids in the big ballgame here. So I would like to ask the Premier in terms of getting the support from the other people in the Northwest Territories to get a decent resource revenue sharing and devolution deal. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Yakeleya. Mr. Handley.

Further Return To Question 104-15(5): Devolution And Resource Revenue Sharing Negotiations

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. First of all, we have been working with the business community, with aboriginal governments, on both devolution and resource revenue sharing. I want to continue that. Mr. Speaker, I will be attending regional meetings with the regional leaders. I know the leaders for the Aboriginal Summit are meeting in November. This will be an issue on their agenda. Mr. Speaker, we have worked in the past with the Business Coalition and I intend to continue to work with the business community through that coalition and I don’t have any specific plan on it, but we intend to work there. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Handley. Supplementary, Mr. Yakeleya.

Supplementary To Question 104-15(5): Devolution And Resource Revenue Sharing Negotiations

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. In our communities, again, they’re crying out for proper infrastructures, proper programming, proper services in our communities, the nurses, drug and alcohol centres, the youth, policing, yet we’re still talking about this. You know, we’re 30 years of devolution talks. We still come back and say we’re broke. So I guess I want to know when the deal is going to get done, when we’re going to have a good deal so we can have, like, province of the Northwest Territories, don’t keep begging in Ottawa for additional dollars. Again, I want to ask the Premier in terms of his time frame in terms of the end of this life, the next government, when will we get it done? Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Yakeleya. Mr. Handley.

Further Return To Question 104-15(5): Devolution And Resource Revenue Sharing Negotiations

Mr. Speaker, the federal government have made it clear that they will be proceeding on devolution and resource revenue sharing discussions, that in December Minister Flaherty will be meeting. So, Mr. Speaker, I expect clearly that we will have the answers to this and the process in place this fall before the end of the calendar year. Mr. Speaker, I expect to see as part of the 2007-08 budget some relief for the Northwest Territories on both the financing formula and on resource revenue sharing. Mr. Speaker, I think that is as much detail as we can provide at this time. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Handley. Final, short supplementary, Mr. Yakeleya.

Supplementary To Question 104-15(5): Devolution And Resource Revenue Sharing Negotiations

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the federal government has made other things very clear to us, they don’t like our literacy program, they don’t like our health programs, they made a bunch of huge cuts that affect the Northwest Territories. Shame on them for doing that. It’s a crying shame in the Northwest Territories. All the resources that we have that they’re making these types of cuts and then they turn around and say we’re going to deal with you, we’re going to give you a good deal here, trust us. So, Mr. Speaker, enough is enough. I want to ask the Premier what’s a backup plan that we northern people can go to Ottawa and get our deal and bring it home and have some decent programs for our people? Thank you.

Bring it home.

---Applause

Thank you, Mr. Yakeleya. Mr. Handley.

Further Return To Question 104-15(5): Devolution And Resource Revenue Sharing Negotiations

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Let me say, first of all, that I believe that we have to deal with these step by step, but I want to work with Minister Prentice and his people on the devolution and resource revenue sharing file. That is one that is doable. They have just appointed a negotiator. I intend to work with them on that one. The same on the Finance Minister’s file. Our Minister of Finance will be working with Minister Flaherty on that one and we’ll see where that goes. Mr. Speaker, if we’re not able to make progress on these two files, then at that time we are going to have to look at some other option because, as I said in my statement, the current situation is just not sustainable. Mr. Speaker, I don’t have a detailed plan B at this point and I would want to work with the Members in drafting whatever that might be. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Marci, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, you know, we, all in this House, know the importance of the Income Security Program and other subsidy programs this government delivers to northern residents. I just wanted to ask the Minister of Education, Culture and Employment, the Honourable Charles Dent, if any review of these subsidy programs and the Income Security Program has been developed to date, because I think he mentioned six months ago that, oh well, we should have some proposed changes and recommendations in about six months or so. I got it in the Hansard from six months ago that he actually stated that. So I’m just wondering, are those reports done, reviews made, recommendations going to come forward? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Villeneuve. The honourable Minister responsible for Education, Culture and Employment, Mr. Dent.

Return To Question 105-15(5): Income Security Programs

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I have taken to the Standing Committee on Social Programs several times over the past few months some proposals for program changes. We’ve discussed where we’re headed with this program. At this point, we’re in the process of developing the costings for the different models that are under consideration that we’re expecting to be able to take to the standing committee in November or December and the goal would be to look at implementing changes for April 1st, 2007. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Dent. Supplementary, Mr. Villeneuve.

Supplementary To Question 105-15(5): Income Security Programs

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. If there has been some recommendations and reviews done, and I’m sure if it’s gone to the standing committee, but to my knowledge the standing committee is telling me there’s nothing in the business plans. These business plans are five-year plans, Mr. Speaker, you know, and if you’re reviewing and making recommendations on program changes and developments, maybe they should be included in the business plans for that year and the next five years to come. You know, the importance of these programs, I know over the last six months things are really quiet on the NWT front as far as people pounding on your door for income security because it’s warm and they don’t need the heat so bad, but in the wintertime it really gets heated up. People really get concerned. So I’m just wondering what proposed changes can the Minister provide to Members of this House and the general public that are going to be beneficial for people in the NWT over the next winter? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

---Applause

Thank you, Mr. Villeneuve. Mr. Dent.

Further Return To Question 105-15(5): Income Security Programs

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The program is constantly under review for ways in which it can be improved. In terms of adding money to the budget, at this point there hasn’t been any plan to add money to the budget. We’re looking for ways to change the program delivery so that we can use what we have in the program more efficiently. There may be some proposals for change and may be some requirement for adding money, but that’s something that I would have to discuss after we come up with the program redesign, and that, Mr. Speaker, as I said, won’t happen before sometime in November and December. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Dent. Supplementary, Mr. Villeneuve.

Supplementary To Question 105-15(5): Income Security Programs

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. You know, these proposed changes and recommendations that this government has been working on over the past six months seem to be really dragging on and I think in the last session people weren’t looking for some major changes to the program, they’re not too bad to say the least, but all Members were looking for is just some tweaking in the Income Security Program, the Seniors’ Rent Subsidy Program, even the Rent Scale Program. All we were asking for is some small changes that make big difference for the people out in the smaller communities. So what’s the big holdup here? Why does it take a year to tweak a program, you know? Like, we would like to see something on paper and be able to assure the general public that, yes, we are tweaking the program to better accommodate specific needs. Can the Minister give us something that we can provide the general public, the income security clients with and say hey, yes, it’s going to get better for you. Is there anything like that, Mr. Speaker? Thank you.

---Applause

Thank you, Mr. Villeneuve. Mr. Dent.

Further Return To Question 105-15(5): Income Security Programs

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. One of the reasons that it takes so much time to change a program like this is that it is so important to so many people in the Northwest Territories. Because of that, we’ve spent a lot of time consulting with northerners and people were consulted in every region of the Northwest Territories. A lot of people asked for some significant changes, not just little tweaks, but significant changes. People have asked us to look at changing the program from a program of last resort to a program that looks at what does a person need in order to be more successful, to be more self-sufficient. In other words, how can we better case manage the program so that perhaps we deal with people as individuals instead of just a group of people. To make that kind of change does take time, Mr. Speaker. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Dent. Final, short supplementary, Mr. Villeneuve.

Supplementary To Question 105-15(5): Income Security Programs

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I understand the importance of the program, as do a lot of clients and people in the NWT, but I just want to specify I think why it’s so difficult to change or even tweak these programs is because they’re so old. The bureaucracy is so used to delivering these programs there is just no appetite for change. You know, a lot of people in the public service do good work, but a lot of them don’t want to change. You know, they’ve been there so long and they’re so used to some programs and the way it’s delivered, that there is just refusal in the regions, at the headquarters' offices, even at the local level to initiate any change. I think that any change should come from the top down. If there are some tough decisions that have to be made, then the Minister should make those decisions and say that’s what we are going to do. We are just going to do it today, not in a year, in three years or five years. Let’s do it today.

Do you have a question, Mr. Villeneuve?

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My questions this afternoon are for the Premier. As many of my colleagues have discussed already, it is in the area of negotiations for resource and finance arrangements here in the NWT.

Mr. Speaker, Mr. Harvie Andre is the latest federal emissary to the NWT from Ottawa to negotiate these deals. I want to express my hope that he will be able to advance this issue. Mr. Speaker, this Assembly, chiefs and mayors have for years now been very clearly on the record with the federal and provincial governments that this is our goal. Resources and wealth are flying out of the NWT at a rate of about three-quarters of a million dollars a day, Mr. Speaker.

I want to ask now about the critical area, which the Premier has already acknowledged has been a difficulty in the past, and that is the mandate of the federal negotiator. Mr. Speaker, does Mr. Andre have the full authority of the federal government to negotiate the finance deal with us and with aboriginal governments? Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Braden. The honourable Premier, Mr. Handley.

Return To Question 106-15(5): Devolution And Resource Revenue Sharing

Mr. Speaker, I have not seen a written mandate for Mr. Andre but, in my discussions with him, it is clear that he understands our point when we link both resource revenue sharing and devolution. Mr. Speaker, he understands that relationship. Mr. Speaker, there is no indication that he has the authority to overrule the federal Finance Minister who has the ultimate authority in the federal Cabinet on finance issues, but he can certainly carry very strong messages back to Minister Prentice and then onto Mr. Flaherty. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Handley. Supplementary, Mr. Braden.

Supplementary To Question 106-15(5): Devolution And Resource Revenue Sharing

Mr. Speaker, the Premier, in a news interview in the past few days, said it’s his hope that this is something that could be done within four months. I guess I am assuming here that we might be looking at certain potential election processes that might engage in that time. Mr. Speaker, I would like to probe this a little bit. Is this four months’ time frame something that has been agreed to or discussed with Mr. Andre and, of course, with the aboriginal governments who are party to these negotiations as well, Mr. Speaker?

Thank you, Mr. Braden. Mr. Handley.

Further Return To Question 106-15(5): Devolution And Resource Revenue Sharing

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The four months past I am referring to is an agreement-in-principle, not a complete devolution and resource revenue sharing as was reported. I am talking about an agreement-in-principle. Mr. Speaker, yes, it has been discussed with Mr. Andre. It has also been discussed with Minister Prentice.

Mr. Speaker, let me point out, as Members may recall, in July 2005 or June 2005, we had an agreement. The aboriginal negotiator was ready to recommend to his principals the acceptance of an agreement-in-principle on devolution. We had issue with regard to some of the fiscal side, so we weren’t ready at that point.

Mr. Speaker, I also raised with Mr. Andre the need to resolve those six outstanding financial or fiscal issues as a first task. Mr. Speaker, I believe the aboriginal leaders who were onside in 2005 are still onside. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Handley. Supplementary, Mr. Braden.

Supplementary To Question 106-15(5): Devolution And Resource Revenue Sharing

Mr. Speaker, this deal really is no longer an option for the people of the NWT. It is time for results. What more can we do? The Speaker…I’m sorry, the Premier and his team, many politicians and other northern leaders have very consistently and strongly been on the record that it is time for results, it is time for action. What more can we do, Mr. Speaker, to convince Mr. Andre and his boss, Mr. Prentice, and everybody’s boss, Mr. Harper, and Mr. Flaherty, to convince them that this is no longer an option, Mr. Speaker?

Thank you, Mr. Braden. Mr. Handley.

Further Return To Question 106-15(5): Devolution And Resource Revenue Sharing

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, this is no longer an option for us, as I said in my sessional statement. The situation we have is not sustainable. Mr. Speaker, Mr. Prentice and Mr. Harper have made pretty firm commitments to us on what they think is the element of a good deal. We have told them what we expect to be done. We are entering negotiations with them. I want to work towards an agreement-in-principle within the next few months.

Mr. Speaker, quite frankly, I expect that there is going to be a federal election coming up. We don’t have a lot of levers here, but I can tell you, Mr. Speaker, that this is the most important issue in my mind for people of the Northwest Territories. If we don’t have progress on this by the time the next federal election happens, and it could be as early as spring, I don’t know when it would be, then I think we have a major lever at that time. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, my questions are also on the sessional statement that the Premier made earlier today. Mr. Speaker, I was listening to it very closely and I noticed that the first six or seven pages or so are talking about the bread and butter programs that the government has been providing. I might add also that most of the money for those programs come from the previous federal programs like a New Deal for Canada, community capacity building, even $500 million funding that comes from the previous government.

I think we have to be all concerned about the lack of progress we are making, not only on the devolution file because we have always said devolution without resources is no devolution at all. I would like to know from the Minister and the Premier, I get the sense that the federal government is spending more time and energy trying to get the pipeline deal through than any other issue. There is a lack of voice in this government to say the pipeline and the resource revenue sharing goes together. You can’t have one without the other. I would like to know from the Premier what efforts he’s made to get this heard and to get the outcome that we need. Thank you.