Debates of October 18, 2004 (day 22)

Thank you, Mr. Roland. Supplementary, Mr. Ramsay.

Supplementary To Question 237-15(3): Cost Of New Family Law Legal Aid Office

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I’m just wondering how often has the Minister's department sole sourced office space. Have they set a new precedent in terms of process and price? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay. Mr. Roland.

Further Return To Question 237-15(3): Cost Of New Family Law Legal Aid Office

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I don’t have the exact information that the Member wants right now on how many spaces we’ve sole sourced. Sole sourcing is done by the government from time to time, looking at the criteria involved. I can work at getting that information together and providing it to the Member, if that’s what he’d like. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Roland. Supplementary, Mr. Ramsay.

Supplementary To Question 237-15(3): Cost Of New Family Law Legal Aid Office

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, and thank you, Mr. Minister, for your response. I’m just wondering if the Minister appreciates the premise that the more money you spend on leasehold improvements and office space, the less money flows through to the clients who really need the service. I know the Minister probably didn’t have a direct say in this sole-sourced lease, but does he appreciate that fact? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay. Mr. Roland.

Further Return To Question 237-15(3): Cost Of New Family Law Legal Aid Office

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, it is something that I do appreciate, is the fact that we have limited resources in the Northwest Territories and we need to spend it wisely. In this particular situation, an RFP was let, responses were received, all of them did not, for one reason or another, qualify with what was out there. Upon discussions with all the parties involved, it was sought that one company did have space available that was required by the Legal Services Board. The Legal Services Board requested space that was visible, had easy access and a storefront. That was some of the main criteria that they had requested. From the information provided, they’re happy with the location. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, my questions are also to the Minister of Public Works and Services. Mr. Speaker, I must say that every aspect of this contract for the new Legal Aid office is very questionable. Mr. Speaker, I know a little bit about legal aid files; I used to work on legal aid files. There are so many people who don’t get legal aid assistance, and when they do they are doled out two or three hours of legal aid service from a lawyer. Now we’re going to house this program in this most expensive area and I can’t wait for them to tell them, you know, we can spend all the money we have in this mall to sit here, but we can’t give you more than two hours of legal aid service. Mr. Speaker, it seems to me that the proprietor who got this contract didn’t even meet the deadline. We rewarded them by giving them a sole-source contract. If a student who applied for SFA was delayed, I bet you they wouldn’t get that kind of reward. So I’d like to know how the Minister justifies giving a sole-source contract in a free market like Yellowknife? A sole-source contract for a 15-year lease to a business who didn’t even meet the deadline. How does he justify that, Mr. Speaker?

Thank you, Ms. Lee. The honourable Minister of Public Works and Services, Mr. Roland.

Return To Question 238-15(3): New Legal Aid Office Lease

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I’m glad the Members feel that this is an important service, and that’s why we’ve gone out to set up another office so that all members affected, whether it’s a family separating, can seek service and get that right now that was a difficult thing to offer. Lawyers in one office could not work for both clients if it came to a family separation. We, as a government, recognized that, established the money to develop this space and created a second office. From the information I’m provided, we are not going to reduce the level of service. We are going to increase the level of service to the residents of the Northwest Territories who require this type of service. Again, for the cost of the actual space, an RFP went out that requested general office space and under that request the responses were received. I’ll say again that all three responses that were received did not meet the criteria, but on reviewing all three files it was felt that the one company that did submit -- it missed the timeline, and I’ve been open about that -- fit the criteria enough that we could have some discussions with them and came to an agreement on the price. Again, the price that we worked with was that based on general office space. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Roland. Supplementary, Ms. Lee.

Supplementary To Question 238-15(3): New Legal Aid Office Lease

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the Minister just repeated what I said, which is that the department rewarded the party who did not meet the timeline by giving them a 15-year leasehold contract. Now, I have a problem with that. The second thing is, I resent greatly anybody across the floor saying that when we’re asking questions about the way they’re spending legal aid money that we somehow do not support expansion of the Legal Aid program and I do not appreciate that, Mr. Speaker. I want to tell the Minister and the Cabinet, they know that other NGOs, for example, the Centre for Northern Families, suggested that perhaps this new lawyer practice out of that service. A doctor goes there for service and it’s been a great success. Why don’t the lawyers go where the most services are? Why didn’t the Department of Public Works and Services staff look at places like that or any of the many buildings around the courthouse or downtown area? Why did they go to the most expensive mall and say what do you have? I want to know what regulations there are that the staff could just call anybody and say do you have a place for 15 years. I want to know what the criteria is. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

---Applause

Thank you, Ms. Lee. Mr. Roland.

Further Return To Question 238-15(3): New Legal Aid Office Lease

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, if the Member wants a copy of the RFP that went out, I’ll gladly provide one. The fact is, an RFP went out, responses were received, it was a public exercise and we received three responses. From that, we deemed that they all did not fit the criteria for one reason or another, whether the offer that was made did not fit the question for adequate space or storefront, or easy access, downtown, or the timelines. Based on phone calls we had with these companies, individuals from those companies, we went and discussed with the Legal Services Board what we felt was a viable option. On that we’ve offered a five-year lease with two options of five years. That can be reviewed if it’s felt that at the end of the first term it is not appropriate to continue with that. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Roland. Supplementary, Ms. Lee.

Supplementary To Question 238-15(3): New Legal Aid Office Lease

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The Minister still did not give any information about what criteria the staff has to meet in order to call somebody and say I’m looking for space in Yellowknife and I’m ready to do sole source. Because, Mr. Speaker, as the Minister indicated, of the three businesses that applied, none of them met the criteria. So it was a zero. Nobody met the criteria. So as far as I’m concerned, all the businesses in Yellowknife were entitled to have this negotiation with the Minister’s department. So why wasn’t the Panda Mall consulted? Why wasn’t the old Overlander’s space consulted? Why weren’t any other buildings consulted? As far as I’m concerned, when the two proposals didn’t meet the criteria and the third one was late, everybody was starting from zero. It’s wrong for that business that did not even meet the deadline to have the sole-source contract. I want to know what criteria, where is the rule book that governs the staff as to how they act in these cases? Thank you.

Thank you, Ms. Lee. Mr. Roland.

Further Return To Question 238-15(3): New Legal Aid Office Lease

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, we do have policies on whether we go RFP, sole source, negotiated contract or public tender, and I disagree with the Member that this was wrong. We went out for an RFP, a public process. We went out to the public and asked for input. We received some input. For one reason or another that didn’t fit the guidelines out there, but they were close enough. We sat down, used the same companies, had discussions about adequate space, and went forward with the one we felt was best at the time. I will provide a copy of the policies to the Member for the guidelines on how we work around these. It’s not something we would do whimsically. We wouldn’t do this just for the sake of one day waking up and deciding whether it is a good day or not to do a sole source. We went through a public process. We took the information from that process and, instead of going out and adding to the cost of more advertising and so on, we took the best deal and went ahead on that basis. I hope that, at the end of the day, we would be better able to serve the clients of the Northwest Territories through this space. A business put in a proposal. It just happens to be downtown in the Centre Square Mall. They put it in. It is not like we went to them, phoned them up and said hey, let’s arm wrestle or strong arm you into providing this service. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Roland. Your final supplementary, Ms. Lee.

Supplementary To Question 238-15(3): New Legal Aid Office Lease

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The Minister should check his facts, because he has provided information to us that suggests that, in fact, they did call the business and say let’s work out a deal. Mr. Minister, I still want to know when they did meet the original criteria, so everything was zero based, so why do you only deal with those who applied for it who didn’t meet the criteria? The third one was late in the first place. That should have been just written off right away, and you should have started right from the beginning. Shouldn’t that be the common, sensible way to do that? I also want to know why not a proposal like the Centre for Northern Families who had a proposal. If the Minister is going to call anybody to do it, why don’t you consider everybody fairly? I am sure the NGO could have done a lot with the 15-year contract to provide legal services in their premises. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

---Applause

Thank you, Ms. Lee. Mr. Roland.

Further Return To Question 238-15(3): New Legal Aid Office Lease

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, an RFP went out. Three responses were received. Those three responses were looked at and reviewed. We moved on with what we thought was the best option. We worked with the people who responded to a public RFP process. Thank you.

Mr. Speaker, my question today is for the Minister responsible for the Housing Corporation. Recently, the Housing Corporation undertook an assessment for Fort Liard. I am just wondering if the Minister can comment whether that assessment has been completed for the community of Fort Liard. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Menicoche. The honourable Minister responsible for the Housing Corporation, Mr. Krutko.

Return To Question 239-15(3): Housing Assessment In Fort Liard

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I am not aware of this study being done in Fort Liard. We based our information on lead surveys that we have conducted on that. That is how we allocate our budget.

Thank you, Mr. Krutko. Supplementary, Mr. Menicoche.

Supplementary To Question 239-15(3): Housing Assessment In Fort Liard

Mr. Speaker, I thank the Minister for that response. I was under the impression that they were addressing the special needs of Fort Liard. With that being said, it was highlighted as a key community. I was just wondering what the corporation plans to do about Fort Liard, Mr. Speaker. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Menicoche. Mr. Krutko.

Further Return To Question 239-15(3): Housing Assessment In Fort Liard

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, in regards to Fort Liard and the information that we have been looking at and where we know there is a need, we have been implementing housing programs by way of the EDAP programs and also the Independent Housing Program. There has been an increase in the number of housing units that have been built in Fort Liard. We are seeing more people apply for programs. I think that is one thing that we are trying to do, is get more of our field staff from Fort Simpson into the communities to make people aware that these programs are out there to make improvements to their houses, and also give them opportunities to either outright purchase a home through the EDAP program or through the Independent Housing Program for seniors. We saw an increase last year with regard to what has been spent. Last year, it was over $900,000. Again, it is almost $900,000 being spent in Fort Liard for housing.

Thank you, Mr. Krutko. Supplementary, Mr. Menicoche.

Supplementary To Question 239-15(3): Housing Assessment In Fort Liard

Mr. Speaker, just with respect to Fort Liard, I believe it was identified as a special concern to the Housing Corporation because of the recent mould problems. I would just like to ask the Minister again if there was special consideration taken to retrofitting and renovating the homes that had been identified with the mould problems last fall. That is what I was addressing, Mr. Speaker. Has the corporation identified some extraordinary funding to help the community of Fort Liard?

Thank you, Mr. Menicoche. Mr. Krutko.

Further Return To Question 239-15(3): Housing Assessment In Fort Liard

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, in regards to the community housing cooperative, we are working with the community. We have identified money in next year’s budget to do a maintenance program in regards to the mould problem, and also to bring that building up to certain standards so we are able to occupy the whole building. There is a report on that particular project. I thought you were talking about the programs in general. So we are looking at that. We have a plan in place. I will then share that with the Member.

Thank you, Mr. Krutko. Final supplementary, Mr. Menicoche.

Supplementary To Question 239-15(3): Housing Assessment In Fort Liard

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like to ask the Minister if he can make some time and provide that so we can sit down and discuss some of the preliminary plans that they have for Fort Liard. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Menicoche. Mr. Krutko.

Further Return To Question 239-15(3): Housing Assessment In Fort Liard

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Yes, I am willing to sit down with the Member and go over the plans for that particular project. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My questions now are for the Minister of Health and Social Services. Mr. Speaker, the Minister just returned from an F/P/T Health Ministers’ meeting in Vancouver. I understand from the media coverage that the federal Minister of Health was in attendance at that meeting. Not too many weeks ago, we were very happy and excited about information brought back from Ottawa by our Premier and Health Minister with respect to what was going to be more funding for health care in the Northwest Territories. Some of the areas that were covered were things like $150 million over five years for the three northern territories, some additional help with medical travel for the northern territories, and also some specific aboriginal health funding. When the Member of Parliament held a press conference with representatives of our government, with the Premier, on this, a lot of the details were yet to be concluded and worked out with respect to how that funding was going to look for us. So having returned now from this Health Ministers’ meeting, I just want to give the Minister of Health and Social Services an opportunity to share with us if there has been any more detail brought to some of those commitments which were a little vague at the time they were made. Thank you.

Thank you, Mrs. Groenewegen. The Minister of Health and Social Services, Mr. Miltenberger.

Return To Question 240-15(3): Details Of Additional Federal Health Funding

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, we do have some more detail in terms of how the $150 million is going to be allocated. There is a $75 million travel fund over five years. It is going to be split between the three territories: 70 percent to Nunavut, 20 percent to the Northwest Territories, and 10 percent to the Yukon, which will bring our share roughly to about $3 million a year. With regard to the territorial health access fund, it is $65 million over five years. It is going to be split equally among the three jurisdictions. Our share will be roughly $4.3 million a year. There is also $2 million a year for five years for a territorial working group for the three territories and the federal government to have the resources to look at how we can better address the specific northern health issues that are out there. We are still waiting to get clarification on the territorial health access fund in terms of whether it will be a grant or a contribution, which could have an impact on our formula funding arrangement with the federal government. We are also waiting to get clarified further with the federal Minister in regards to the territorial health access fund, the basket of services that would be funded through that particular fund. The request from ourselves has been that we be given the money, we put it to our northern priorities, and we will call for it at the end of the year from a broad basket of agreed to services. It was really a positive step forward. When the Minister goes down next week, they will be looking for some further, more specific detail that lies not with the Department of Health Canada, but with federal Finance. We had a brief Cabinet meeting this morning, on the outcome of the weekend meeting. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger. Supplementary, Mrs. Groenewegen.

Supplementary To Question 240-15(3): Details Of Additional Federal Health Funding

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I guess I’m a little bit disappointed in the fact that the $150 million was a separate fund for the medical travel, which I thought was over and above the $150 million but it looks like it’s been broken down. Was there a specific meeting of northern leaders to determine how this 70 percent, 20 percent, 30 percent was going to be split out on that $75 million pocket of funding, or did the federal government just dictate that’s how it was going to be? Thank you.

Thank you, Mrs. Groenewegen. Mr. Miltenberger.

Further Return To Question 240-15(3): Details Of Additional Federal Health Funding

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, there have been discussions among the three territories, going back to when the agreement was first made at the First Ministers’ meeting, trying to anticipate some of these questions.

While we were in Vancouver we had the opportunity for a meeting with Minister Dosanjh and his staff on the Saturday after the regular meetings were over. From that the officials -- the deputies, from the Northwest Territories, Nunavut and Yukon -- sat down with the assistant deputy minister of Health from the federal government and they talked about some of the detail that we didn’t get a chance to get clear with Minister Dosanjh at the Saturday meeting. It was done collaboratively. It wasn’t imposed on us by the federal government, but there was a general recognition that there are clearly more health transportation costs and medical travel costs sustained by Nunavut than there are from the Northwest Territories or from the Yukon. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger. Supplementary, Mrs. Groenewegen.

Supplementary To Question 240-15(3): Details Of Additional Federal Health Funding

Well, thank you, Mr. Speaker. I realize the challenges facing Nunavut with respect to medical travel may be somewhat more difficult than we have here in the Northwest Territories, but we also have twice the population. We have the largest population here. We must have twice as many people as Nunavut, and they are getting 70 percent. Anyway, it sounds like it was negotiated by officials reminding us not to send…

--Laughter

It’s okay. I was also going to ask, Mr. Speaker, are we the point of contact for the aboriginal health funding that was announced by the federal government? Are we the point of contact for implementing and accessing that, as the GNWT? Thank you.