Debates of October 18, 2005 (day 12)

Mr. Speaker, I can’t tell you how much the government has spent in total in preparation for the pipeline, because all of our departments, almost without exception, have been involved in some way or another. We have all spent time on this issue. As well, Mr. Speaker, it would take a lot of time to pull that kind of information together. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Handley. Supplementary, Mr. Hawkins.

Supplementary To Question 145-15(4): Mackenzie Gas Project Planning Costs

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I’m concerned that there’s no backup plan if the pipeline doesn’t go through. Can the Premier tell me what will happen to this investment if the pipeline doesn’t go ahead? Will we have any long-term plan for the benefits that we’ve been studying or thinking about?

Thank you, Mr. Hawkins. The honourable Premier, Mr. Handley.

Further Return To Question 145-15(4): Mackenzie Gas Project Planning Costs

Mr. Speaker, diversification of our economy has long been a goal of our government. We have a very active diamond mining industry. We have a lot of exploration going on for other kinds of minerals. There are two or three pipelines coming out of the Territories right now: two coming out of the Deh Cho and one from Norman Wells. Mr. Speaker, I expect that everything isn’t going to come to a stop if we don’t have the pipeline. But, Mr. Speaker, it would be a sad day if we don’t see the pipeline, in my view, because this one does represent a huge opportunity that would be lost, and we would see many of the people living, particularly in the smaller communities along the valley, who would be hard pressed to find employment and self-sufficiency. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Handley. Your final supplementary, Mr. Hawkins.

Supplementary To Question 145-15(4): Mackenzie Gas Project Planning Costs

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Referring to my Member’s statement, I pointed out that there were more than 30 positions that have mushroomed all about pipeline preparedness. So millions of dollars are being poured into this. What, if any, is the strategy for the long term with respect to these pipeline preparedness positions, keeping in mind that this pipeline may never go through? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Hawkins. The honourable Premier, Mr. Handley.

Further Return To Question 145-15(4): Mackenzie Gas Project Planning Costs

I’m not sure where the Member is getting information that the pipeline is not going to go ahead, because all of the indications that I have are that Imperial wants to build the pipeline, that aboriginal leaders want the pipeline, our government wants the pipeline, the federal government wants the pipeline, and I believe that it is going to go ahead. Having said that, we have invested a lot of money in pipeline preparedness and training people on the anticipation that this will happen. I’m still of the view it is going to happen. But, Mr. Speaker, as I said, if it doesn’t go ahead for some reason, then I think it is a sad day, because there will not be the jobs, and there will not be the revenues to our government and aboriginal governments and to people throughout the Territories that we would have if this did happen. Mr. Speaker, I want to emphasize that we are working on the information that this pipeline will happen. We are in the middle of serious negotiations, and I fully expect that it is going to proceed. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, my questions today are for the honourable Premier, and it goes back to my Member’s statement from earlier today. I’m just wondering if the Premier knows, or can tell us, what type of consultation took place between the Minister responsible for the Workers’ Compensation Board and the Minister responsible, in terms of this new office building. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay. The honourable Premier, Mr. Handley.

Return To Question 146-15(4): Consultation On Proposed WCB Office Complex

Mr. Speaker, first of all, let me clarify that the Housing Corporation is an entity that is a corporate…Oh, sorry. I’m sorry.

---Laughter

I apologize, Mr. Speaker. The Workers' Compensation Board is a corporate entity that is separate from government. They operate on a basis of collecting premiums and then paying out compensation for workers who are injured from that premium. The Minister responsible is the Minister responsible for the act, and he manages the overall legislative direction to the Workers' Compensation Board. The Workers' Compensation Board would have advised the Minister of this proposed investment.

Mr. Speaker, I want to also say that I congratulate the Workers' Compensation Board for taking some of its investments and considering how it can invest in the North. There was a time when the investments were largely elsewhere, and that was something that was of concern to us as a government. In terms of the detail of this consultation, the Minister has been advised that the Workers' Compensation Board has talked with the Yellowknife and Northwest Territories chambers of commerce; they have talked with the NWT Construction Association, the NWT Chambers of Mines, and the NWT Federation of Labour. I’m not sure who else, but those are the individuals they have talked to, at least, and I’m sure they’ve also spoken with the City. There has been a fair bit of discussion on this proposed investment. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Handley. Supplementary, Mr. Ramsay.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I guess it’s kind of the same as when Regular Members have to deal with injured workers and we feel completely left out of the process. If the Minister responsible for the Workers’ Compensation Board was advised of this type of investment taking place, I’m wondering why he didn’t advise us, and we had to ask him and request from him a meeting to go over the business case for such a move. Does the government or Premier feel that it makes sense to allow the Workers' Compensation Board to build this office complex outside of the downtown business core of the city of Yellowknife; the capital city? Does it make sense to move this office and 100 workers outside of the downtown core? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay. I’m going to rule that question out of order. It's asking the Premier for an opinion. Do you want to rephrase your question, Mr. Ramsay, or follow-up supplementary? Mr. Ramsay.

Supplementary To Question 146-15(4): Consultation On Proposed WCB Office Complex

Yes. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I’ll rephrase my question for the Premier. Does the Premier and the government feel that they should support the downtown capital area of this, Yellowknife, capital city of the Northwest Territories, by maintaining the Workers' Compensation Board and the 100 jobs they represent be in the downtown core? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay. The honourable Premier, Mr. Handley.

Further Return To Question 146-15(4): Consultation On Proposed WCB Office Complex

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The government has been monitoring what is happening. We have not become directly involved. Certainly, the core area of Yellowknife and its future is of concern to all the citizens of Yellowknife, the same as it would be of any residents of any other town or any other city. What’s happening to the core area? What should stay in the core area, and what should possibly be moved out? There are individuals who have talked to me about it and have expressed their concern that this is one more move toward destroying our downtown. So there are certainly people who would prefer to see it here. Mr. Speaker, I intend to speak directly with the mayor about this issue, and I recognize the planning for the city is really within the mayor and council’s jurisdiction directly, not ours as a government, but we certainly have views with regard to the future of any of our urban areas. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Handley. Supplementary, Mr. Ramsay.

Supplementary To Question 146-15(4): Consultation On Proposed WCB Office Complex

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I’d like to ask the Premier, I guess for Regular Members, what is our best course of action in trying to communicate to the Workers' Compensation Board that, as a Yellowknife MLA, I feel the 100 jobs should be downtown? I think we should pay attention to the revitalization project that’s taking place downtown, and try to maintain these jobs downtown. I’m wondering if the government should write letters to the Workers' Compensation Board chairman. Should we talk to the mayor? Who is going to take up that fight on the government’s side of things? Is it going to be the Minister responsible, or is it going to be the Premier? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay. A couple or three questions there. The honourable Premier, Mr. Handley.

Further Return To Question 146-15(4): Consultation On Proposed WCB Office Complex

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I think any of the Legislative Assembly Members who want to take up this issue should take it up with the chairman and the board for the Workers' Compensation Board, as well as the City. It is my understanding that this land that the Workers' Compensation Board is interested in would have to be rezoned. That’s an issue that the city council will have to deal with, and certainly you have every right and responsibility to speak to the mayor and council on this issue if you wish. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Handley. Final supplementary, Mr. Ramsay.

That’s okay.

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, my question is also directed to our honourable Premier, Joe Handley, in regards to the Taltson expansion project. I know the government has recently approved something to the tune of $1.4 million toward the environmental and geotechnical work that the Taltson expansion project is to undergo. I just want to ask the Minister, I guess, from his last dealings with industry with respect to getting them to hook into this Taltson expansion project, what is the status of those current negotiations today, and where does the government stand on that issue? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Villeneuve. The honourable Premier, Mr. Handley.

Return To Question 147-15(4): Proposed Taltson River Hydroelectric Expansion Project

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. There is certainly interest in the possibility of hooking into hydro power by the existing mines, as well as the one that’s under construction. There have been regular meetings going on as recently as last Friday. There was a meeting between our officials and the Power Corporation and the representatives of all three diamond mines: Ekati, Diavik, and DeBeers. They are looking at the economic viability of it. Of course, the mines will participate, both for environmental reasons as well as cost, as long as this is something that is favourable to their bottom line, as well. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Handley. Supplementary, Mr. Villeneuve.

Supplementary To Question 147-15(4): Proposed Taltson River Hydroelectric Expansion Project

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I guess, just from looking at the mines’ bottom line, we have a lot of room to play here. I was just wondering if the Premier could let me know, and maybe let the House know, who is on this negotiating team, and if this team has anybody representing the Akaitcho Territory and the South Slave Metis and Lutselk’e and Deninu Kue First Nations. Is there anybody on that negotiating team, along with the Power Corporation, to negotiate with the mines? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

---Applause

Thank you, Mr. Villeneuve. The honourable Premier, Mr. Handley.

Further Return To Question 147-15(4): Proposed Taltson River Hydroelectric Expansion Project

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The individuals who are doing the work on our behalf -- and at this point it is not formal negotiations, but more looking at the detail, the complexities of it, the issues, and, of course, trying to arrive at a bottom line of the viability -- is made up of a number of senior officials, including the deputy minister of ITI, the president of the Power Corporation, a representative of the Energy Corporation, which is a subsidiary of the Power Corporation, and Lew Voytilla, who is with our Financial Management Board Secretariat. Mr. Don Balsillie was also at the meeting and participating, and I’m not sure exactly his capacity and who he is representing at the meetings. Yes, there was a representative in Don Balsillie. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Handley. Supplementary, Mr. Villeneuve.

Supplementary To Question 147-15(4): Proposed Taltson River Hydroelectric Expansion Project

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I guess my next question would be with the development of the negotiations or how they’re proceeding. I know they’ve been going on here for the last year or so, and there doesn’t seem to be any tangible results coming out of the work that’s being done. Given the rising energy costs, it would seem more attractive to the mines that they would hook up into something that would be beneficial both environmentally and on the revenue side for them. I just want to ask the Premier if he would be willing to get his team, the deputy minister and these four other individuals, to maybe take a harder stand toward industry and actually, given the government’s perspective and what the government wants to do for the people, demand that the mines hook up. I don’t know why there’s even ongoing negotiations with that. I think it should be something that should be a given, given our…

Thank you, Mr. Villeneuve. I’ll allow the Premier to answer that. Mr. Premier.

Further Return To Question 147-15(4): Proposed Taltson River Hydroelectric Expansion Project

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Yes, we are working with the mines. We cannot require them to hook up to hydro power until we know that we have a viable project and can deliver the hydro power to them. To do that, we need to do several things. One is to complete a memorandum of intent with our aboriginal partners whose traditional lands the project will be situated on. The second is, we need to continue with further environmental and engineering studies to make sure that the project is viable in that respect. We also have to look at a lot of other economic issues. Mr. Speaker, I expect that by this spring we will have all of those pre-engineering, pre-environmental studies done and, at that point, should be able to go to the next step, which would be to go for an application for environment permitting, environmental assessment process. It is only after we get that, and have a project, that we could then require the mines to buy in. Until then, Mr. Speaker, I can tell this House that the mines are very interested in the project and are working with us on it. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Handley. Final supplementary, Mr. Villeneuve.

Supplementary To Question 147-15(4): Proposed Taltson River Hydroelectric Expansion Project

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. It is good to hear that the mines are very interested. I guess I just wanted to point out in this review of electrical generation transmission and distribution in the NWT that came out in 2000, that there are things in this report that point to a lot of economic viability options of why we should convert to electrical and hydro generation here in the NWT on all fronts. I don't know if we should do any more review on this front, because it seems to be a pretty comprehensive report that has been developed by this government.

I just want to ask the Premier, as far as finding some agreeable solutions to allow the mines to hook up or not hook up, before the environmental and geotechnical work gets done, can we work side by side to ensure that, yes, they are going to hook up and, yes, we are doing the environmental work, and we are going to spend the money on doing that, and that money is going to bring the mines into the picture? Is there any kind of commitment that we can get from the Premier on that end? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Villeneuve. The honourable Premier, Mr. Handley.

Further Return To Question 147-15(4): Proposed Taltson River Hydroelectric Expansion Project

Mr. Speaker, let me first say that the report that the Member is referring to is a broad report on the benefits of hydro power and the viability and the potential in the Northwest Territories. There is no stronger advocate of that than myself and our government. The studies I am referring to are specific to the Taltson project. We need to have lot more information there.

Mr. Speaker, as soon as we have the information that is necessary over the next few months, we intend to enter into, what we call, firm power purchase agreements with the mines. Before we do that, we have to make sure that we are not selling our future away for half its value, or that we are not entering into something that we cannot deliver on. We have to do this basic background work first, but the intention is to enter into the memorandum of intent with the aboriginal partners, then enter into firm purchase power agreements with the mines and, of course, do the environmental and engineering work, as well.

Mr. Speaker, we are working on this. It may seem as though little is happening, but there is a lot happening in the back rooms in getting this project underway. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, my question is also about the impending closure of the day care in Fort Smith. Mr. Speaker, I realize that the Premier is not involved in the day-to-day management of the file, but I would appreciate it if the Premier would take this question. My question is, given the fact that there are so few days left -- this day care is up for closure within a week or so, within a couple of weeks -- it appears from listening to the answers that the Premier gave to the Member for Monfwi, that there are some documents or records that the government is looking for to decide whether any kind of assistance could be given. I would like to know from the Premier if he could make a commitment to look at this prior to October 28th. Once it is closed, it is really hard to get things restarted. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Ms. Lee. The honourable Premier, Mr. Handley.

Return To Question 148-15(4): Closure Of Fort Smith Day Care Centre

Mr. Speaker, we need to have the completed financial records in our hands to have a look at them, so we know the status of the day care before we can look at what alternatives there might be. We need that, first of all. I understand that the director is working on it, so as soon as those are available to us, we can do it. I can't guarantee -- because I am not in control of that -- when she would have that work completed, and whether it would be before this House recesses. Mr. Speaker, as we get more information, we will look at it, and certainly look at all day cares across the Northwest Territories, but I can't give assurances that it will be October 28th. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Handley. Supplementary, Ms. Lee.

Supplementary To Question 148-15(4): Closure Of Fort Smith Day Care Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, my understanding is that this issue has been going on and there have been problems expressed to the Minister, difficulties that the society has been experiencing for the last year. I don't know why it has taken until the midnight hour to figure this out.

Could I ask the Premier, if the director provides the government with the information, would the Premier work with the Minister of ECE to do all that the government can do to keep that facility open, and give them the reasonable assistance that they need to get through? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Ms. Lee. The honourable Premier, Mr. Handley.

Further Return To Question 148-15(4): Closure Of Fort Smith Day Care Centre

Mr. Speaker, I want to see the financial records first. I am sure the Minister responsible wants to see them first.

Mr. Speaker, we want to have day care spaces where they are needed, and particularly for the students. But, Mr. Speaker, I can say that that day care in Fort Smith gets all of the same per child benefits that any day care gets, plus they get free accommodation, including O and M in one of the buildings there. We are providing as much and probably more than we are for many day cares across the Northwest Territories in this situation.

Mr. Speaker, we want to be careful with what we do, that we are not providing an unfair advantage or amount of money for one day care that we are not giving to others. Mr. Speaker, this issue is immediate, it is urgent, we want to find some alternatives, but at the same time, we have to look at the support that we are providing to day cares right across the Territories. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Handley. Supplementary, Ms. Lee.

Supplementary To Question 148-15(4): Closure Of Fort Smith Day Care Centre