Debates of October 18, 2005 (day 12)

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I don't have a whole lot of details to this case specifically, but it seems to be obvious to me that it is quite complex, and there are many sides to this story, with the emphasis being put on financial records and such. I listened, with a great deal of interest, to what the Premier said in his answer to my second question, and that was that he would look at all the day care programs and see how they are running. The fact of the matter is, even per diems are not given when a child doesn't show up; for example, even if you have to light the place and water the place and such. Would the Premier look at the overall picture of how adequate our per diem funding is to day care facilities? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Ms. Lee. The honourable Premier, Mr. Handley.

Further Return To Question 148-15(4): Closure Of Fort Smith Day Care Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I know the Minister responsible is undertaking a review of the regulations under the Child Day Care Act right now. He is, today, on his way to a federal/territorial/provincial meeting to deal with early learning and childcare. We have been struggling with the position taken by Canada on per capita money for early childhood learning. These are all issues that affect what we are doing.

Mr. Speaker, I will take this issue up with the Minister responsible for this file as soon as possible. As I say, we treat it very seriously right across the Northwest Territories. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Handley. Final, short supplementary, Ms. Lee.

Supplementary To Question 148-15(4): Closure Of Fort Smith Day Care Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I want to set aside the whole issue about getting money from the federal government. That is totally another issue, and it doesn't really matter how much money we get, it is how we fund our programs. Let me tell you, in this House, all the people that work for us, they still get paid if Members don't show up, if one of us don't show up. Why is it then okay for day care not to be paid if a child doesn't show up? That makes no sense. Overhead costs are exactly the same. I would like to ask the Premier to look at questions like that, about are we being fair in our funding to day cares. Thank you.

Thank you, Ms. Lee. Mr. Handley.

Further Return To Question 148-15(4): Closure Of Fort Smith Day Care Centre

Mr. Speaker, I don’t know all the details of why young preschoolers in the day care would be eligible if they are missing a day here or there. I don’t understand that. I do know we do fund day cares based on a number of preschoolers, babies who are enrolled, not on the occupancy. If we did that, we might be funding a lot of empty spaces. Mr. Speaker, I will talk with the Minister on this issue. We will get more information, and I certainly agree with the Member that this is a very serious issue and one we will look at very carefully. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, my questions are for Mr. Krutko, Minister responsible for the NWT Housing Corporation. Mr. Speaker, my colleague, the Member for Hay River South, delivered a rich inventory of issues that concern us about the corporation and the way it manages its mandate. Over time, they will, I am sure, get attention. The area I would like to focus on is one of governance, Mr. Speaker, and the mandate under which the Housing Corporation conducts the programs and the budgets that are before us. I wanted to ask the Minister with regard to the review of the Housing Corporation’s mandate, what is the status of the development of this new mandate? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Braden. The honourable Minister responsible for the Housing Corporation, Mr. Krutko.

Return To Question 149-15(4): Status Of The NWT Housing Corporation Mandate Review

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, We are presently in the process of redefining the mandate of the Housing Corporation. As we all know, the social housing responsibility will be devolved to Education. We are preparing a presentation for Cabinet with regard to the mandate change which will be happening later on this week. Hopefully, we will have something to take to committee by the end of the month. We are hoping to be able to move forward on that. With the mandate change, we are hoping to see how we fit into the scenario of programs and services and, more importantly, focus on property management and development. So we are hoping to have that process completed by the end of this month. It is presently ready to go to Cabinet. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Krutko. Supplementary, Mr. Braden.

Supplementary To Question 149-15(4): Status Of The NWT Housing Corporation Mandate Review

Mr. Speaker, we’ve all been aware for some time now, in fact in the business plans that we looked at in the budget session earlier this year, that this review was underway. I haven’t heard very much about it. Housing is one of the most essential parts of our infrastructure here in the NWT. For the Housing Corporation to undertake a fundamental review of its mandate, I would like to think that they might have been talking to a few people. I haven’t heard very much about it though. So what kinds of consultations and stakeholder groups have been contacted about this mandate, and to what extent have those views been incorporated in the presentation now before Cabinet? Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Braden. Mr. Krutko.

Further Return To Question 149-15(4): Status Of The NWT Housing Corporation Mandate Review

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, we have made a presentation to the committee, but it was looking more at some of the guiding principles we are following. I made a commitment to committee that we will go directly to committee once the mandate has been approved through Cabinet. We are hoping to take this to committee within the next few weeks. It is going to Cabinet this week, and hopefully we can take it to committee next week, if that’s possible.

Thank you, Mr. Krutko. Supplementary, Mr. Braden.

Supplementary To Question 149-15(4): Status Of The NWT Housing Corporation Mandate Review

Mr. Speaker, I am wondering why this particular Minister doesn’t get it, either. The committees and Members on this side are not the constituents or the clients of the Housing Corporation. There are some 23 local housing organizations administering 2,344 subsidized rental housing units. This is the constituency that the corporation should be talking with. We hear that Cabinet has to sign off on a mandate for the Housing Corporation before anybody else has the chance to talk about it. How can it be that this corporation has ignored the people who are really involved, and the real customers, in reviewing this essential mandate? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Braden. Mr. Krutko.

Further Return To Question 149-15(4): Status Of The NWT Housing Corporation Mandate Review

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, this process has included regional staff, people at our local housing authorities, and there has been information provided to front line workers to ensure they are aware of how we are going to devolve and include them through that process. So we have made attempts to meet with our local housing authorities, our district staff, and making sure that people in headquarters are aware of how we are going to roll out with regard to those new mandate changes. We have met with those different agents that we are responsible for.

I will also mention that this has been taking place over the last year with regard to the guidelines that we put forward. We all know that the mandate has changed with the decision to look at social housing being administered by Education. Because of that, we are now moving forward.

Thank you, Mr. Krutko. Final supplementary, Mr. Braden.

Supplementary To Question 149-15(4): Status Of The NWT Housing Corporation Mandate Review

So, Mr. Speaker, what I guess we can anticipate here is another piece of paper that Cabinet is going to approve -- I heard the word “approve” -- then it’s going to be passed over here for rubberstamping, I guess. To what degree is Cabinet going to control the overall review and acceptance of the Housing Corporation’s new mandate, or is this just another rubberstamp exercise? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Braden. Mr. Krutko.

Further Return To Question 149-15(4): Status Of The NWT Housing Corporation Mandate Review

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, this process, as I mentioned, has been going on for the last year. It’s not something that’s come up overnight. We have been working with the different boards and agencies, and also we are working with Education on how this is going to be laid out; how we are going to work with the different housing authorities; how we are going to deal with the management of the lands, the property that we have. We have not just brought this up overnight. It’s been in the works over the last year. I feel that Cabinet will have an in-depth review, and then we are committed to taking it to committee to ensure that they understand how this will work going forward. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I spoke today on the condition of the Dempster Highway, and I have a few questions for the Minister of Transportation. With all this traffic that’s going to be going on the highway when the pipeline goes through, is there a master plan to upgrade the highway, widen it, just so it’s a lot safer for the trucks and the people who are travelling on it? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. McLeod. The honourable Minister of Transportation, Mr. McLeod.

Return To Question 150-15(4): Upgrade Of Highway No. 8

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, yes, we recognize the need for more work to be done on Highway No. 8. Highway No. 8 is roughly 262 kilometres long, and the majority of it is requiring reconstruction to handle the traffic volumes, but also because of the age of the highway. We’ve had a very tough summer. We’ve had a lot of moisture and a lot of rain. It’s created havoc on a lot of our roads, not only on Highway No. 8. Highway No. 1 and Highway No. 7 are also experiencing the same conditions. We have done the preliminary engineering on the Highway No. 8 system. We have looked at the cost. We estimate it to be around $60 million. We’ve committed, through our capital planning, to spend an average of $5 million a year. We’ve also included it in our needs.

Having said that, Mr. Speaker, we haven’t been able to find all the money as yet. We have been able to earmark roughly $30 million through our strategic infrastructure funding. We are still short a significant amount, roughly half of what it’s going to take to complete the project. We are looking at packaging it up as part of our submissions to the federal government to meet some of our short-term needs on the highway infrastructure system. We are also including it as part of the longer-term vision from our department that will go forward to the federal government. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. McLeod. Member for Inuvik Twin Lakes, Mr. McLeod.

Supplementary To Question 150-15(4): Upgrade Of Highway No. 8

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Thanks to the Minister for the update. Earlier this summer, I invited the Minister to go on a tour of the highway with me so he could see the condition of the highway first hand. We will get that tour done, hopefully, next summer. Will the Minister and his department look at chipsealing part of the highway as part of the master plan? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. McLeod. The honourable Minister of Transportation, Mr. McLeod.

Further Return To Question 150-15(4): Upgrade Of Highway No. 8

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, right now our focus is to do a lot of the work that is required along the highway: the drainage, the road widening, the realignment. Those things are all required on this road. We also have to replace most of the culverts that are along the Highway No. 8 system. This year, I think we replaced 60 culverts and reconstructed roughly 93 kilometres of that whole road system. We have not included a chipsealing program for that highway as yet. Maybe that’s something we will look at as part of the legacy program, or some of the socioeconomic impacts of the Mackenzie gas project. It is not in our budget currently, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. McLeod. Supplementary, Mr. McLeod.

Supplementary To Question 150-15(4): Upgrade Of Highway No. 8

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Thank you, Mr. Minister. If the chipsealing is going to be a problem, we will settle for dust control. This was a terrible summer on the highway. All the way, there was absolutely no dust control, maybe 12 kilometres. So will the Minister commit to having his department do dust control on the whole 262 kilometres next summer? Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. McLeod. Minister of Transportation, Mr. McLeod.

Further Return To Question 150-15(4): Upgrade Of Highway No. 8

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, we did increase our budget. I will certainly commit to keeping it at the level where we have invested. We have a budget authority of roughly $70,000 a year. We’ve now raised that up to roughly $250,000, and we will continue to stay at that level. As we apply dust control over the next couple of years, I think we will see improvements in those areas. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I have more questions for the Honourable David Krutko, Minister responsible for the NWT Housing Corporation. Mr. Speaker, as a preamble to this set of questions, I want to say that on our pre-budget consultation, and what we’ve heard for years in the North, is that we have a critical shortage of adequate, affordable housing. It is a mandate of this government to address that need. I have no problem with investing money; however, I have a huge problem with wasting money. That’s the crux of the questions that I am asking today. For the Minister’s information, there are between 55 and 60 people in headquarters. I think that that’s a lot of people, given the transfer of the responsibility for the $30 million recently. So let me ask the Minister again, has there been any reduction in staff as a result of devolving the function for the social housing to ECE? Has there been any reduction in headquarters? Thank you.

Thank you, Mrs. Groenewegen. The honourable Minister responsible for the Housing Corporation, Mr. Krutko.

Return To Question 151-15(4): NWT Housing Corporation Operations

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, no, there hasn’t been.

Thank you, Mr. Krutko. Supplementary, Mrs. Groenewegen.

Supplementary To Question 151-15(4): NWT Housing Corporation Operations

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, with the changing mandate of the Housing Corporation that the Minister has referred to, does he anticipate that the new mandate will require the same level of staffing at headquarters? Thank you.

Thank you, Mrs. Groenewegen. Mr. Krutko.

Further Return To Question 151-15(4): NWT Housing Corporation Operations

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, under the new mandate change, we are looking at using the same people that we presently have in house. We may expand in the area of land management because we don’t have any expertise in that area. So we may be seeing a slight increase there.

Thank you, Mr. Krutko. Supplementary, Mrs. Groenewegen.

Supplementary To Question 151-15(4): NWT Housing Corporation Operations

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Also, in my first set of questions, I referred to the contracting out of certain functions from the Housing Corporation. I have a few notifications for tenders that have gone out from the Housing Corporation here. One is for the development of a financial skills program, a two-day homeowner education course, and the other one is for a home purchase, a one-day education course. The people responding to these tenders should submit to the program development specialist in house. I am thinking if you are contracting out for one and two-day programs for people to learn how to purchase a home and manage their financial skills, what does the program development specialist do? Thank you.

Thank you, Mrs. Groenewegen. Mr. Krutko.

Further Return To Question 151-15(4): NWT Housing Corporation Operations

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, we do, at times, have to depend on the expertise of other people outside of the corporation. Yes, we do have people who are responsible for different portfolios, but we are undertaking a new initiative with regard to identifying the liaison positions in communities. Before we allow those people to go in the field, we offer training to those individuals through our regional offices, or have someone come in and do that. I believe that’s the position the Member is talking about. We are trying to expand in that area in the liaison positions in communities where we don’t have program officers. On the Member’s earlier point, she was close when she said 55 positions. We have 54 positions in headquarters and 49 positions in the district offices. So you were pretty close. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Krutko. Time for oral questions has expired; however, I will allow the Member her final supplementary. Mrs. Groenewegen.

Supplementary To Question 151-15(4): NWT Housing Corporation Operations

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I am not getting any feelings of assurance that the number of people at headquarters is being well monitored and managed. It would just seem too coincidental that you could take a $30 million program activity out of Housing, transfer it to ECE, and somehow you would need exactly the same number -- no, more people under the new mandate. It seems a little bit unscientific to me. Could the Minister give us a general idea of what the new mandate is going to include in terms of activity that could not only absorb the existing staff, but require more? Thank you.

Thank you, Mrs. Groenewegen. Mr. Krutko.

Further Return To Question 151-15(4): NWT Housing Corporation Operations