Debates of October 18, 2005 (day 12)

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the main component of the new mandate change is getting away from focusing on social housing and social issues, and getting into property management and expanding the properties that we do have. We want to find ways of partnering with different groups, individuals, and corporations, to try to leverage more funding from federal program dollars, CMHC. One of the main components we are working on is to ensure that we do have resources to manage. Because we are running this as a business, we have to be more proactive. I think the Member's concerns are valid. Through presentations to yourselves as committee members with regard to our mandate change, hopefully with the input of the Members, we can see where we are going. One of the biggest challenges we are facing across the Northwest Territories is trying to find land to do property development. That’s an area that’s crucial to look at. Again, we are taking into consideration how we are going forward, and with the input of the Members of this House, we have to move in a different direction with the mandate change. We are open to that. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Krutko. The time for oral questions has expired. The Member for Hay River South, Mrs. Groenewegen.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I am seeking unanimous consent to return to item 6, oral questions. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, late this summer, somebody in Yellowknife came to me and said they were having difficulty providing service, and they provide medical supplies in the Northwest Territories. They were concerned that they were getting the cold shoulder. So on September 21st, I wrote a letter to the Minister of Health and Social Services asking four brief and simple questions. As of today, I haven’t had any response from this Minster. Before I put my questions to him, I have to point out that it’s these types of businesses who are asked to support the hospital and the hospital foundation. They say they would love to support these organizations, but if they are not given the chance to bid on contracts, even if they lose them potentially, but not even given the chance to try, how can they afford to help support these organizations? This letter is almost a month old. When can I expect a response so I can tell this person who is trying to run a business in the North? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Hawkins. The honourable Minister of Health and Social Services, Mr. Miltenberger.

Return To Question 152-15(4): Medical Supplies Procurement

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Before the end of session. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger. Supplementary, Mr. Hawkins.

Supplementary To Question 152-15(4): Medical Supplies Procurement

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. This person in Yellowknife who does the medical supply business says they never seem to know or see any purchase tenders go out in the newspaper. Again, they come from the perspective that they would just like a fair opportunity to apply and bid on these contracts, but they feel that they continually get the cold shoulder. What’s the policy on public tenders, or do you just go straight to sole source in the South? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Hawkins. Mr. Miltenberger.

Further Return To Question 152-15(4): Medical Supplies Procurement

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. We have some arrangements with some organizations and businesses in the Northwest Territories. I will make sure that we have a comprehensive reply for the Member by the end of session.

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger. Supplementary, Mr. Hawkins.

Supplementary To Question 152-15(4): Medical Supplies Procurement

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I appreciate hearing that news from the Minister. Mr. Speaker, my next question for the Minister is, does he have a policy that supersedes all policies about going south for sole source? Can I get some clarity on that to make sure that our northern contractors have an opportunity to bid on these? Again, if they lose them, that’s fine. They want to be able to compete and try fairly. Do we have that policy? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Hawkins. Mr. Miltenberger.

Further Return To Question 152-15(4): Medical Supplies Procurement

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. As a department of this government, we follow the contracting guidelines that are there for all government departments to follow. Thank you.

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I would like to ask some more questions of Mr. Krutko, Minister responsible for the NWT Housing Corporation. It concerns an initiative that is now in its second year, the market housing initiative. Mr. Speaker, this was something that this Assembly initially supported because it was designed to assist those communities that were having trouble attracting and keeping essential employees for GNWT services, especially Health and Education. We are now into the second and final year of delivering a total of 42 units to communities. What is the status on the delivery of the second lot of units, and are we on time and are we able to get things in under the weather radar here, Mr. Speaker? Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Braden. Mr. Krutko.

Return To Question 153-15(4): Market Housing Initiative

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the majority of the units are in place. We have units going to Aklavik, Deline, Norman Wells, Rae and Gameti. The only one that still hasn’t been placed is the one in Gameti. It’s going to have to go on the winter road this winter. With regard to Rae, there are three units that have not been in place. We have one unit that is presently being constructed. We have two units still at the plant, and one unit is on site because we are presently in the process of developing the properties that they sit on. In Norman Wells, they are presently being constructed. We are hoping to have them ready to go by the end of November. The one in Aklavik is presently being put on site, and we are hoping to have that ready by the end of November. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Krutko. Supplementary, Mr. Braden.

Supplementary To Question 153-15(4): Market Housing Initiative

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like to focus on the original objective of this, which was to get employees into units that were appropriate for them and affordable. The uptake on this in the first year was not all that great. I wanted to ask the Minister, of the 42 units that are either on site or in the process of being finalized, how may of them are being occupied by those essential workers, the initial target group of tenants? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Braden. Mr. Krutko.

Further Return To Question 153-15(4): Market Housing Initiative

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, with regard to phase one, the 22 units, we do have 18 units occupied. There are four units that aren’t occupied. Sixteen units are occupied by professionals, but we have sold two units in Tulita and one in Fort Resolution. Interest has been shown for other units in Fort Good Hope and Fort Liard.

Mr. Speaker, people have taken up housing units in those communities. Because they are available and people realize they are there, they understand what the cost of renting these units are. With the promotion of the Department of Education and ourselves, people will realize when you go into the communities that there is a cost associated with the rent. In order to rent these units, they will have to pay a certain price. We are able to bring down those costs; we are seeing an intake of different professionals. We have seen a major increase with regard to the rental of those units. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Krutko. Supplementary, Mr. Braden.

Supplementary To Question 153-15(4): Market Housing Initiative

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, that was a pretty skinny answer. Maybe I will try it again. This Assembly and government went through considerable contortions to get the budgets passed, enable this to happen because we believed in the idea. We wanted to respond to those communities that were having problems getting teachers and nurses on site in our communities. The Minister has told us that a bunch of professionals are using them. That’s good. It’s great to see them occupied, but has the corporation managed to put together the costs or the availability of these for that target audience? How many of these 42 units are occupied by nurses and teachers? Let’s try it that way, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Braden. Mr. Krutko.

Further Return To Question 153-15(4): Market Housing Initiative

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The Member keeps referring to 42 units. As we all know, the last 20 units were implemented this year. At the time that it was presented to the House and we approved the budget, we made it clear to them that those 20 other units will not be on the ground. I would just like to have the Member realize that we went through a logistic problem the first time around, and we are going through it again. A lot of these communities are through the road access, and also ensuring that we have to deal with barging. As I said, Mr. Speaker, I don’t think we discriminate between professionals in communities. They are professionals that work at the band office, professionals who work at the municipal office. It’s not totally for nurses and teachers. This is a program to build capacity in communities and ensure that professional people who do live in these communities now have the ability to rent locally and not have to worry about trying to find accommodation once they get there. We are now providing accommodation in those communities to professionals in all walks of life, not just strictly to nurses and teachers. The communities are requiring these units to provide these programs and services that we ask them to deliver on our behalf. So we can’t restrict these to certain professionals. Again, we have seen a major increase in that area. As I stated earlier, 18 of these units are now presently occupied, under phase one, out of 22. So we are almost at 90 percent capacity. That alone should show you that we are providing assistance to those people to keep them in those communities. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Krutko. Final supplementary, Mr. Braden.

Supplementary To Question 153-15(4): Market Housing Initiative

Okay, so the Minister doesn’t have information for us or can’t go back to really what the original objective was and say that it has been satisfied; the program has changed to accommodate other people. Mr. Speaker, one part of this program was also that the units will not be subsidized and the Housing Corporation has been directed -- I’m reading from the business plan of last year -- to ensure a lease rate that is based on a full cost recovery basis. Can the Minister assure the House that the cost of renting and the sale of some of these units have indeed been at full cost recovery? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Braden. Mr. Krutko.

Further Return To Question 153-15(4): Market Housing Initiative

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. That is the direction that was given by Cabinet when this was taken out. It had to be at full cost recovery and that’s exactly how it has been operated. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I’m going to pick up where some of my colleagues left off, and I’ve got questions as well for the Minister responsible for the Housing Corporation on their track record in terms of seniors’ facilities. I’d like to first of all ask the Minister if he can advise us, as a segue into this, Mr. Speaker; we had the opportunity in April to visit the community of Tuktoyaktuk, which has a seniors’ facility, and Regular Members were able to go and get a tour of this facility. Mr. Speaker, we couldn’t find one senior in the entire facility, and in fact there were apartments there that hadn’t been lived in in three years. We’d go in and open the fridge and the fridge would be on full blast, the heat was on full blast and there wasn’t a soul living in the whole place except for the caretakers, Mr. Speaker. I’d like the Minister to advise us what the capital costs and the ongoing associated O and M costs are for the seniors' facilities in Deline, Fort Resolution and Tuktoyaktuk. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay. The honourable Minister responsible for the Housing Corporation, Mr. Krutko.

Return To Question 154-15(4): Cost Of Seniors’ Facilities

Mr. Speaker, a lot of these facilities are built and designed with the Department of Health and Social Services, through the arrangement to provide seniors’ facilities in communities, and also in regard to alcohol and drug programs. The department, along with other departments, has done an assessment of all of the facilities that we presently operate with less than 30 percent capacity. We are presently in the process of working with those different agencies.

You touched on an area that was raised in the House earlier in regard to the Deline facility. We have a committee in place, and we’re hoping to have that unit up and running by 2006, and have the parties agree on exactly what the use of that facility is. The same thing applies to the facility in Tuk. That facility was constructed as any other seniors’ facility throughout the North. It was in conjunction with the Department of Health and Social Services to provide seniors’ care in communities. But at the facility in Tuk, as you mentioned, we are presently in the process of restricting certain access to half of the facility and allowing that half of the facility to be used for public housing tenants. So we are looking at starting to rent out those facilities and keeping the other half for a seniors’ facility, as it has been agreed to. But again, through the review by the departments on the 30 percent occupancy to ensure that we find other uses for that facility.

The Member also mentioned the Somba K’e facility. We’re presently working with people in the private sector such as Bosco Homes and other agencies to see if they are interested in acquiring that facility for the intent of that facility, which was a treatment facility. I think because of the restrictions of the agreements that were in place prior to where we are today, where a lot of the agreements we had did not have an opt in or out clause, we’re basically stuck with the facility and paying the mortgage and whatnot on these facilities and to carry forward.

So, Mr. Speaker, that’s the short of it.

---Laughter

Thank you, Mr. Krutko. Supplementary, Mr. Ramsay.

Supplementary To Question 154-15(4): Cost Of Seniors’ Facilities

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I’d like to ask the Minister what type of meaningful consultation takes place with a community that would allow a facility built in a community like Tuktoyaktuk to stand vacant for three years, and now we’re actually going to try to go back and do something about it? But whose responsibility is it that that facility built with our scarce resources sat empty for three years? I’d like to ask the Minister how much did it cost to build these three facilities, and what has been the ongoing operations and maintenance costs for those three facilities for the past three years? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay. Mr. Krutko.

Further Return To Question 154-15(4): Cost Of Seniors’ Facilities

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I don’t have that detail in regard to the actual operational costs, but I know in regard to Somba K’e we had winterized that facility, which basically shut down last winter. We are in the process now of talking with the band and other corporations, and I know that the facility in Tuk was occupied with a few elders last year, but they are being used. So, Mr. Speaker, I don’t have the total operational costs of those facilities, but we are looking at alternative uses for those facilities, and we are trying to occupy them. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Krutko. Supplementary, Mr. Ramsay.

Supplementary To Question 154-15(4): Cost Of Seniors’ Facilities

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, it is a sad thing that pieces of public infrastructure get built in communities, and, again, the Minister didn’t answer the question. What type of meaningful consultation takes place in a community that would allow a seniors’ facility to be built and nobody living in it for three years? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay. Mr. Krutko.

Further Return To Question 154-15(4): Cost Of Seniors’ Facilities

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, as we all know, we do have a budgetary process that has to pass through this House, and it has to be approved in that process. How it gets there is determined by the department and the demands of communities.

In regards to elders’ facilities, the population does fluctuate where we do have other alternative uses for facilities. I think because of the capital process, we go through departments, come forward with the capital requirements to this House, and get the capital dollars to construct them. In regard to those facilities, I believe that there was a demand for this facility, and it was passed in this House. At present, we are seeing that there is less use for those facilities because of changing circumstances. The funding that was there in the past, especially a lot of the federal funding, has lapsed, and we have to look at alternative sources of revenues.

So, Mr. Speaker, the capital is approved through this House, and we all have an opportunity to debate it in the House. Thank you.

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. I was going to speak on the core housing need in the Tlicho region, and also for the North, since the topic happens to be the Housing Corp.

---Laughter

Mr. Speaker, it’s a real shocker that in this day and age there are many families in the Tlicho region, and I’m sure the rest of the Northwest Territories, that still get their water from the lake, and have outhouses in their backyards. Mr. Speaker, many of the residents have trouble accessing programs and services of the Northwest Territories Housing Corporation. Can the Minister tell this Assembly how NWT residents living in horrendous conditions, reminiscent of the Third World, can access the programs and services provided through the NWT Housing Corporation? Mahsi, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Lafferty. The honourable Minister responsible for the Housing Corporation, Mr. Krutko.

Return To Question 155-15(4): Access To Housing Programs

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, as you know, we have concluded different needs surveys. We have been able to pinpoint a lot of these areas where we do have very low standards in regard to living conditions where people live. I think that whole thrust behind the reports that have come forward is we have identified some 20 communities that are in core need, and I think through those needs surveys we are able to identify those communities that need the resources. As a department, we are making sure that all the resources that we do have are going to those communities to get down those core needs numbers to ensure we bring people’s living standards up to a certain level.

Again, a lot of these programs are based on our capital budget. The $4 million that was addressed in this House in regard to the Northern Strategy is going to those 14 communities who are in that core needs category. As a government, we are limited on our resources, and I am working in conjunction with the federal Minister in regard to the $1.6 billion for housing. A lot of the emphasis for that money is going to be focused on aboriginal communities. I think that’s where the problem lies, is in those aboriginal communities.

Again, Mr. Speaker, we are working through our needs surveys, identifying the federal resources that are out there, and identifying those communities that we have identified to ensure we bring down those core needs so we can make a difference. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Krutko. Supplementary, Mr. Lafferty.

Supplementary To Question 155-15(4): Access To Housing Programs

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, with that in mind, can the Minister inform the Assembly how the corporation determines the allocation of repairs, renovations, new home construction funding, and whether access to adequate water, sewer and heating services is a primary consideration? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Lafferty, Mr. Krutko.

Further Return To Question 155-15(4): Access To Housing Programs