Debates of October 18, 2005 (day 12)

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I will continue on asking questions of the Minister responsible for the NWT Housing Corporation. It’s when I hear my colleagues like Mr. Lafferty talk about real and core needs in the community that it just becomes so offensive that we could somehow misdirect millions of dollars in funding. I saw the Tuk seniors’ facility too, and it cost millions of dollars to build that. It’s a beautiful facility that overlooks the ocean; the units are gorgeous. I want to live there, but the people and seniors in Tuk don’t want to live there. How the Housing Corporation could have been so far off the mark as to invest millions of dollars and have no uptake is indicative of a very serious problem. And you can say we debated here on the floor of the House, but you know what, when we debate capital projects here on the floor of the House, we assume the department or the corporation has done their work. We’re not in a position to know whether it’s good planning or not. We rely heavily on what comes forward from departments when we approve capital projects. We don’t have that kind of familiarity with what’s going on in the communities.

So I would like to ask the Minister, now that he’s in charge, what is he going to do to assure us that this kind of thing is not going to happen again? It’s not good enough to reprofile this now after the fact. The fact is it was built, the seniors don’t want it, and it’s costing us a fortune to maintain it. How many more times is this going to happen?

Thank you, Mrs. Groenewegen. The honourable Minister responsible for the Housing Corporation, Mr. Krutko.

Return To Question 156-15(4): Housing Corporation Projects

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, we have seen a lot of communities going away from these seniors’ facilities and trying to get independent housing for seniors to keep the seniors in their homes as long as we can. I think, in conjunction with the Department of Health and Social Services also, that there is a cry from communities that they want to ensure that their seniors are housed in their communities and not sent away to long-term care facilities. I think we’re balancing between keeping elders independent and in their own homes as long as we can. Also, we’re trying to ensure that we don’t find ourselves institutionalizing them at regional centres. I think that’s the balance that we’re looking for.

In regard to the facilities that the Members have touched on, I know Tuk is a problem area. I have also been in that facility, and I think that we do have to reprofile and look at multi-purpose facilities where you don’t just simply use them for one reason, and that you’re able to use them for other purposes. Because of the way the relationship between Housing and Health and Social Services is, they identify those facilities, they identify the clients through the surveys they do in communities and also ensure that the facilities are available. So, again, we have to have the flexibility to reprofile our facilities, especially those that are unoccupied, but also keep in mind we want to keep seniors in their homes as long as we can and offer them independence through our IHP program. We have independent housing programs where a lot of seniors now have ownership of their own facilities, but keep them out of those facilities. So, again, we’re trying to do a balancing act. Again, the responsibility also lies with the Department of Health and Social Services.

Thank you, Mr. Krutko. Supplementary, Mrs. Groenewegen.

Supplementary To Question 156-15(4): Housing Corporation Projects

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, when the Minister says that it’s the wish of his department and this government to keep seniors in their own homes living independently, that just leads into something I referred to earlier in my Member’s statement, which is how can there be such a gap between offering social housing to seniors, zero rent, and offering virtually no support for seniors who are trying. That’s a contradictory statement, Mr. Speaker, to say we’re trying to encourage. What specific programs does the NWT Housing Corporation have today, or are they planning tomorrow to offer some assistance to seniors who want to live independently, who are attached to their own homes, who are well enough to look after themselves, but their neighbour down the street is living in a public housing unit for zero? What are we going to do to close that gap? Thank you.

Thank you, Mrs. Groenewegen. Mr. Krutko.

Further Return To Question 156-15(4): Housing Corporation Projects

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, as a government, we do encourage seniors to stay in their homes through tax rebates, fuel subsidies, and also that we, as a corporation, have implemented the seniors’ maintenance repair program and are having to deliver it through our LHOs to ensure that the seniors’ furnaces, water pumps, and tanks are maintained every year so that they know that they’re inspected. So we are delivering that program through the Housing Corporation. A lot of our programs in regard to emergency repairs and whatnot are basically structured to homeownership, but a lot of that goes directly to seniors. I think it’s important that seniors don’t feel that there is an unfair disparity between people that stay in public housing and don’t pay rent, and seniors that maintain their own home and require that type of assistance through fuel subsidies, tax rebates and also the other program I mentioned that go to seniors, the emergency repair programs.

Those types of programs are structured toward seniors, but I think we can do more, and I think that we are hoping to have the flexibility to do that. The Member is right; we do have to find a clear way of not seeing disparity between people not paying rent and people trying to maintain their own homes. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Krutko. Supplementary, Mrs. Groenewegen.

Supplementary To Question 156-15(4): Housing Corporation Projects

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the Minister named off a number of subsidies and supports that are available -- tax relief -- things that are available to seniors in their own homes. All of those particular supports are means tested. In other words, if your household income is over a certain threshold, you do not qualify. However, if you are fortunate enough to get approved for public housing, there is no means test. You could be a millionaire and live in social housing as a senior for nothing, as long as you are over 60 and you are in need.

---Laughter

Seriously, you can have a big pension. Alright, maybe a millionaire is an exaggeration. You could have a very large government pension and live in a senior's housing unit for zero rent. Would the Minister consider leveling that playing field a little by charging at least something to seniors in public housing who can afford to pay? We apply means tests to everybody who gets a subsidy; why don't we apply some kind of a means test to people who are getting their rent for free now? Even if it is minimal, even if it is nominal. That money could then go towards leveling the playing field so that all seniors could receive some assistance to live in this costly place. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mrs. Groenewegen. Mr. Krutko.

Further Return To Question 156-15(4): Housing Corporation Projects

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I believe that is the whole intention, the whole idea, of centralizing a lot of the social funding that we do have, and that will be administered now through the Department of Education, Culture and Employment. The dollars presently for seniors who don't pay for rent will have to go to the Department of Education, Culture and Employment. So we will no longer be subsidizing now. We will be strictly dealing with a new department that deals with social funding.

As we all know, there is $100 million that is out there in regard to some form of a grant or contribution. I think that it is important that we take a look at how those dollars are allocated and ensuring that we consider things, as the Member mentioned, looking at the need thresholds and making sure that everybody takes advantage of it.

I think it is important to realize the federal government also has a role to play in regard to the federal programs that have been mentioned lately, in regard to finding ways of giving the people that are low income and homeowners the grant, through the different grant programs that are being announced. There are also federal programs, but also the responsibility now will lie with the Department of Education, Culture and Employment as of April 1st.

Thank you, Mr. Krutko. Final supplementary, Mrs. Groenewegen.

Supplementary To Question 156-15(4): Housing Corporation Projects

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, what is the Minister prepared to commit to in the House today in terms of consultation with seniors themselves, with respect to Public Housing Program supports to seniors, seeking the input of people from the communities so that we can avoid the kind of waste that we have seen take place in these communities that have been touched on today? Can the Minister commit to me today that he will put in place a very good consultation process to ensure that the stakeholders are consulted, and that we can avoid this needless waste? Thank you.

Thank you, Mrs. Groenewegen. Mr. Krutko.

Further Return To Question 156-15(4): Housing Corporation Projects

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, we have been working, in conjunction with the NWT Seniors' Society, and have been able to fund them through a grant in order to allow them to look at housing issues. Also, in regard to their partnership, there are other seniors' initiatives that are taking place, and I think that as a government we have to ensure that we include our seniors by way of consultation. We conduct annual meetings or even meet with the elders' groups and societies in a lot of our communities where we have elders' counsels and whatnot. I think that it is crucial that we do develop a paper that outlines seniors' programs, but also ensures them that they are aware of the changes that are taking place.

Working with the Department of Health and Social Services, the Minister responsible for Seniors, and also working with the NWT Seniors' Society, we are hoping to be able to find solutions to these problems for seniors. Thank You.