Debates of October 19, 2006 (day 11)

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. My question today is to the Minister of Education, Culture and Employment just dealing with some more of the income verification rent scale policy that this government doesn't seem to want to change.

Shame.

Mr. Speaker, you know, the rent scale policy that we have today was developed 10-plus years ago, with good intentions, I'm sure, but obviously today it doesn't work. It doesn't work for communities; it doesn't work for individuals; and it doesn't work in our employment economy here today. I guess just what my colleague Mrs. Groenewegen from Hay River South was talking about, the frustration of having people to have to verify their income on a monthly basis to the LHOs which, in turn, work with ECE to provide the subsidy or what rent they're going to charge them on. But should people not report these monthly rental incomes, Mr. Speaker, they automatically get charged the maximum amount of rent, regardless of what excuse they have or anything. If they don't have any paper, they're automatically charged the maximum, thus resulting in these exorbitant arrears that all these LHOs have with their clients, some of them up to $80,000 in rental arrears, Mr. Speaker. Like, holy smokes! Is there any intention and has the Minister made any commitment to his staff and to the people in the public housing sector, that he will review the rent scale policy and make the appropriate changes so that people don't have this disincentive hanging over them all the time? They're…

Thank you, Mr. Villeneuve. Honourable Minister of Education, Culture and Employment, Mr. Dent.

Return To Question 142-15(5): Social Housing Rent Scale Policy

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. As the Members are aware, we've been involved in a review of the income security programs for all of our subsidy programs across the Northwest Territories for some time. But this government, when we transferred the subsidy from the Housing Corporation to ECE for delivery for public housing, made a public commitment that there would be no changes to the program for at least the first year. So we said that before April 1st, 2007, there would be absolutely no changes to the subsidies, and that was something that Members of this House wanted to hear. So we have stood by that and we haven't changed the delivery of the subsidy program.

Now, what we are trying to do is make sure that we standardize the delivery of subsidies across the Northwest Territories. So we are looking at making some changes for the 1st of April 2007, but Members of this House will have to hear what they are and we'll have to have some discussion before that happens. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Dent. Short supplementary, Mr. Villeneuve.

Supplementary To Question 142-15(5): Social Housing Rent Scale Policy

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I understand there is a review of the Income Security Program. I'm not talking about the program itself, I'm talking about this rent scale policy that we have developed for the LHOs to enforce upon public housing clients. That rent scale is outdated and it's out to lunch, and the guidelines that encompass that specific policy are also outdated and they are a disincentive to people in the communities. People don't work for money or for a cheque anymore, they'll work under the table because they don't want to bring in any documentation so they don't get charged the maximum amount…

Do you have another question, Mr. Villeneuve?

…just have a disincentive with that policy in place. So why do we even have it there if people aren't going to want to go out and become self-reliant?

Thank you, Mr. Villeneuve. I heard a question there. Mr. Dent.

Further Return To Question 142-15(5): Social Housing Rent Scale Policy

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I think that we're talking about two different things here. Right now, the LHOs are responsible for delivering the housing to clients, almost like a landlord. So they set the rents. The rents are not related to the income of the family or the occupants of the house. Each house has a rent that is established by the LHO. People then come to ECE, as they would in Yellowknife or any other market community, to get a subsidy so that they can afford to pay whatever rent is set by the LHOs. At ECE, it's not a question of how much the rents are; it's a question of how you fit into the structure that was there before the transfers of the subsidy program from the Housing Corporation to ECE. So at this point, there's been no change in how that is delivered. But I guess, Mr. Speaker, some people have had to come in and verify their rent on a monthly basis and they may not have had to do that in the past. As I said to Mrs. Groenewegen, we'll make sure that we're talking to our agents across the Northwest Territories to remind them that people with consistent incomes don't have to come back and verify their income every month.

Thank you, Mr. Dent. Supplementary, Mr. Villeneuve.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I don't know how the Minister can say that this has nothing to do with rent. It has everything to do with rent, Mr. Speaker. It's called the rent scale policy. You know, and that policy is developed by this government, again, for the LHOs to carry out, to charge the government back what they would charge for a one, two, three, four, five-bedroom, and the client pays a portion of that and this government subsidizes the other portion and that's the rent that the LHO receives for that unit. So basically these clients want to come out with the minimum amount of rent possible that they have to pay for perhaps a dilapidated unit that's never been maintained for years…

Mr. Villeneuve, do you have a question? Do you have a question, Mr. Villeneuve?

Supplementary To Question 142-15(5): Social Housing Rent Scale Policy

Okay. With this review of this Income Support Program over the last year, is there any commitment from ECE that the rent scale is going to be brought up again? It's been brought up by Members on that side, Members on this side. Is it going to be reviewed again to more accurately reflect what people are willing to pay?

Thank you, Mr. Villeneuve. Mr. Dent.

---Laughter

Further Return To Question 142-15(5): Social Housing Rent Scale Policy

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I'm not sure that we can ever promise that we'll have a program that allows people to pay what they're willing to pay, because some people may not be wiling to pay anything. But, Mr. Speaker, the rent scale itself again is a question that should be directed to the Minister for the Housing Corporation. It's the Housing Corporation that is responsible for setting the rent scales. ECE, through our Income Security Review Program, or process, will determine what levels of subsidies are paid so that people will know how much they are going to actually have to pay no matter what the rent scale is set. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Dent. Final, short supplementary, Mr. Villeneuve.

Mr. Speaker, why did I waste my time even mentioning to the ECE then? Why didn't the Minister of Housing stand up…

---Laughter

…and answer those questions with regard to the rent scale policy, because that's what I was asking about. I wasn't asking about the…

Do you have a question, Mr. Villeneuve?

Supplementary To Question 142-15(5): Social Housing Rent Scale Policy

My question, okay, to the Minister of the Housing Corporation…

---Laughter

That's fine. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.