Debates of October 20, 2004 (day 24)

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger. Supplementary, Mrs. Groenewegen.

Supplementary To Question 260-15(3): Treatment Options Available For Youth In Trouble

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, quite often, as the Minister knows, because I know that in his former life prior to being an elected official he had much experience in the area of children at risk and children who needed to be in care, as did I as well, Mr. Speaker. But, Mr. Speaker, in the cases of emergencies when he talks about community resources in the cases of emergencies and the incidents are occurring with younger and younger children all the time, the two drug busts that have been referred to in Hay River were two 17 year olds from British Columbia who were making crack cocaine in a hotel room and selling it to kids just as young as that and younger. There are incidents of emergency responses being required to deal with these youth. For example, in Hay River tell me how things would be handled. Does the Minister have firsthand knowledge of whether or not there is a placement, an adequate placement option available to officials, social workers in a community like Hay River given an emergency-type situation such as was experienced this week? Thank you.

Thank you, Mrs. Groenewegen. Mr. Miltenberger.

Further Return To Question 260-15(3): Treatment Options Available For Youth In Trouble

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the Member raises an issue that there is no clear answer to. If she’s talking about how do you deal with a near adult that is still 17 or 18, then I can tell you that it’s not the normal practice to apprehend. If they are involved in a drug bust, if they are from out of province and they are found doing crack cocaine in their hotel room, then I would suggest the issue that the Member raised is one that is not clearly a child welfare issue and that there are other factors. If it’s a situation where they are from out of province, then it is another situation. The normal course of events dealing with children and family tend to focus on children that are much younger. There is very little capacity to deal with teenagers, especially as they get close to being at the age of majority where they have their own rights. If it’s not a young offender situation and it requires a voluntary agreement that they have to be a party to, then it is often very difficult to get their concurrence. So the Member has identified an area where there are no clear answers. There are resources when there is agreement by all the concerned parties, but those for the most part tend to be located down south. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger. Supplementary, Mrs. Groenewegen.

Supplementary To Question 260-15(3): Treatment Options Available For Youth In Trouble

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. So just so we understand then, if we are dealing with, for example, a 16-year-old who is, as you say, near adulthood and that youth does not want to comply with any kind of a structured plan of care or program, there is nothing that we can do short of them being apprehended by officials associated with justice because of a criminal act. So if they want to run, if they want to hide, if they want to just wreak havoc in the community, what you are saying is there are no resources available to this government or anywhere else to deal with these young people. Is that what the Minister is saying? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mrs. Groenewegen. Mr. Miltenberger.

Further Return To Question 260-15(3): Treatment Options Available For Youth In Trouble

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, what I am saying is that when you are dealing with teenagers, unless there is an apprehension and they are put into some kind of custodial agreement under the Child Welfare Act, it’s very difficult if they are not willing to partake in whatever program is laid out to force them to that. People around this table know, and those that are old enough to have teenagers will know that teenagers are very strong minded. They have minds of their own. They also have their own rights as young adults. So there are places, there are some legal vehicles like apprehending, like trying to get a wardship temporary or permanent, but it’s not the norm and it’s very difficult to be effective. For example, if you take under the Child Welfare Act somebody that is 16 or 17 and put them in a facility and they decide, unless it is going to be a locked, secure facility, then chances are and history has shown myself and the Member will know as well, young people don’t want to stay where they are placed, then it is very easy for them not to stay. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger. Your final supplementary, Mrs. Groenewegen.

Supplementary To Question 260-15(3): Treatment Options Available For Youth In Trouble

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I made reference to gaps in the system. All right, let’s go down to a younger age of a child. The child is not a ward of the GNWT, a major incident occurs. What resources do Social Services have at their disposal to deal with a child who is in virtually the custody of no one on a temporary basis until such time as court cases can be arranged for and applications can be made? What do we do in the emergency-type situations? Does he know? Are there foster placements? Are there group homes? Are there treatment facilities available with spaces, with vacancies right now as we speak, to deal with these children? Thank you.

Thank you, Mrs. Groenewegen. Mr. Miltenberger.

Further Return To Question 260-15(3): Treatment Options Available For Youth In Trouble

Mr. Speaker, we have group homes, we have foster homes, we have arrangements. We have two facilities of our own as I have indicated: Trail Cross and the Territorial Treatment Centre here in Yellowknife. We have arrangements with a number of facilities in Alberta and in Saskatchewan. The issue that provoked this debate was the Member’s statement and vandalism and what happens when children in the community are out of control. Their family is the first starting point.

We as a department have learned a hard lesson where if we just arbitrarily reach in -- because there’s a concern and we yank the child out, put them in the permanent wardship, we ship them off because of something that they may have done that’s inappropriate -- that has led in the past to a whole history of problems with permanent wards, children in systems that are there until they graduate at 18 out to the adult system, because that’s all they’ve known is institutional life. So there are vehicles, but, very clearly, we have learned that to start to deal with problems at the community level with families and children you have to involve the children and the families and the community.

I’ve heard here and I know from personal experiences to try to keep the children in the communities and work with them to resolve their behaviour. We also know that if you take a child out of the community and put them in a facility, when they come out unless there has been some work done at the community level and at the family level then the chance that they are going to revert to the same kind of behaviour that got them into trouble in the first place is very, very high. So this is not just a simple issue of do we have enough places to park all the children in our communities that are causing us problems. There are some very, very fundamental issues to do with families and their role in this and how we work collaboratively to try to deal with these problems, recognizing the history we have and the mistakes we’ve made in the past with the child welfare system. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, my question today is to the Minister of RWED. My Member’s statement was about the federal government’s unacceptable delay in dealing with the radioactive, contaminated soil mountain in Tulita, as well as other contaminated soil mountains in the Northwest Territories. I find it infuriating and I’m upset that the federal government has taken this long to deal with the issue and take action on it. Mr. Speaker, it’s well past its time that this issue should be resolved. My question to the Minister is will the Minister approach the federal government Minister of Indian and Northern Affairs, the Minister of Health, and the Minister of Natural Resources to stop this jurisdiction’s foolishness and meet with the Minister to finally resolve this problem? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Yakeleya. The honourable Minister of RWED, Mr. Bell.

Return To Question 261-15(3): Cleanup Of Contaminated Sites In The Sahtu

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I can tell the Member that I share his frustration and I think many northerners do as well. It’s obviously a difficult legacy that we have from past industrial use, military use and other uses across the North, and across the entire country in fact, that we have a number of contaminated sites and these sites need to be cleaned up. The Member is right that there has been a lot of discussion between federal departments over the last 10 years. There was an acknowledgement and recognition in the early '90s that contaminated soil had to be dealt with in the Tulita area and, indeed, along the entire uranium transportation route. But there was a temporary solution found in Tulita with the express commitment to find a permanent solution. We are still waiting for that permanent solution.

I know after meeting with the community this summer -- the Member was there as well -- concerns were raised and I committed to the community that I would look into it, I would talk to the Canadian Nuclear Safety Commission. I have been keeping the Member apprised of those discussions going forward, but we do need a comprehensive long-term solution. I have spoken to Minister Dion, Minister of the Environment, about our contaminated sites and the need to deal with them quickly, but I will commit to meeting with Minister Efford, the Minister of NRCAN who has the Canadian Nuclear Safety Commission under him, and raise the same concerns. It is high time we had this deal addressed, especially, Mr. Speaker, given the fact that we’re looking and hoping for devolution. We want to make sure that the parties who benefited from the extraction of these resources, mainly the federal government, clean up the mess. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Bell. Supplementary, Mr. Yakeleya.

Supplementary To Question 261-15(3): Cleanup Of Contaminated Sites In The Sahtu

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, and thank you, Mr. Minister. The temporary solutions; I don’t know the definition of the federal government’s meaning of temporary. It’s been 10 years we’ve stored it in Tulita and finally the Minister is willing to look at this on behalf of the people in the Northwest Territories. I want to ask the Minister when will he approach these federal agencies. Can he give me a specific time when he will approach the federal agencies to start the action to clean up the mess as he said? Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Yakeleya. Mr. Bell.

Further Return To Question 261-15(3): Cleanup Of Contaminated Sites In The Sahtu

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The Member is right. In the early '90s, this temporary solution and the creation of this engineered soil in Tulita was constructed, and 10 years indeed seems like a long time to be temporary. We do know that the low level radioactive waste management office has done a number of studies and surveys. They assure us that the contaminated mound poses no risk to people or the environment in its present condition. Nevertheless, obviously it needs to be cleaned up. There was a federal government commitment to do that cleanup. As I said, I’ve just recently, in the last month, had a conversation with Minister Dion and at my next opportunity to meet with NRCAN Minister Efford I will raise this issue again. The Member is right; 10 years is not acceptable and indeed is not temporary. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Bell. Supplementary, Mr. Yakeleya.

Supplementary To Question 261-15(3): Cleanup Of Contaminated Sites In The Sahtu

Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, people in Tulita, with regard to the mound there that’s close to the airport, have a lot of emotions associated because of the high rate of cancer in the region here. Mr. Speaker, will the Minister report back within a month that he has met with the federal agencies and that he will table letters in the House indicating that this has been done, including the response from the federal government at the earliest possibility? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Yakeleya. Mr. Bell.

Further Return To Question 261-15(3): Cleanup Of Contaminated Sites In The Sahtu

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I’ll certainly report back the next time we sit and I can give the Member a progress update. Unfortunately, we won’t be sitting in a month’s time, but after Christmas I can certainly provide that update. Mr. Speaker, it’s important for us to recognize that when we talk about the uranium transportation route, there are other sites where uranium product was transferred. Those sites are also a concern to us. We’re concerned about the soils near Sawmill Bay, Bennett Landing and Tulita; we’ve mentioned that. Also at Fort Smith. So there are a number of sites that the federal government needs to pay some serious attention to and, with that in mind, I’ll certainly urge the federal government to do that and I’ll provide their responses to the Member when we next meet. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Bell. Final supplementary, Mr. Yakeleya.

Supplementary To Question 261-15(3): Cleanup Of Contaminated Sites In The Sahtu

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, if a favourable response is not received from the federal government within a reasonable time, will the Minister consider legal action to force the federal government to fulfill its legal obligations and to do something for the people of the Northwest Territories? Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Yakeleya. Mr. Bell.

Further Return To Question 261-15(3): Cleanup Of Contaminated Sites In The Sahtu

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. We have a host of sites that need to be dealt with. It is, and I believe it is, and the government believes it is, a federal obligation to deal with those. Because of the ongoing devolution discussions, we have to get this squared away. As I’ve said, we are not interested in inheriting all the baggage from the resource extraction or baggage from past military sites. So we have to find a way to force the federal government to clean up these sites. I think it was a positive step to see the amount of money earmarked in the recent budget for contaminated sites across the country. There were a number of contaminated sites in the Northwest Territories that got specific mention. I thought that was encouraging, but obviously we have to sit down and come to some agreement on a strategy as a government and I’d certainly like to engage committee in that discussion. I think we need a plan for all of the sites and I want to make sure that we don’t get off track here by focusing entirely on proposed legal action over one site. I’d like to talk about a comprehensive strategy for dealing with all of our sites in the NWT, but, as I said, I would like to bring that back and have that discussion around that strategy with committee. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, my questions today are for the Minister of Health and Social Services, Mr. Michael Miltenberger. Could the Minister outline for us how an individual that is addicted to cocaine or crack cocaine is dealt with? Which processes do they follow and what help is there for them in the Northwest Territories? Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay. The honourable Minister of Health and Social Services, Mr. Miltenberger.

Return To Question 262-15(3): Availability Of Northern Drug Addiction Services

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the programs we have to deal with addictions and alcohol and drug abuse are geared, as the Member knows, to trying to deal with the many complex issues presented by alcohol abuse and addictions. The issue of crack cocaine addiction is one where there is no discreet program. We have been dealing with them on a case-by-case basis. There are other jurisdictions where this is a much larger problem and they have set up special specific facilities and programs to deal with these particular situations. We’ve been dealing, as in the Member’s case that he referenced in his statement, on a case-by-case basis to look for whatever services may be required. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger. Supplementary, Mr. Ramsay.

Supplementary To Question 262-15(3): Availability Of Northern Drug Addiction Services

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I’m just wondering if the Minister and his department have a strategy to perhaps come up with a program that is tailored to the residents of the Northwest Territories that they can seek some programming help while at home and not have to journey south, away from friends and family, to seek the help that they need. I’m just wondering if the department has any plans to try to put together some type of program tailor made to our situation here in the North. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay. Mr. Miltenberger.

Further Return To Question 262-15(3): Availability Of Northern Drug Addiction Services

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the programs we have are geared to the issue of addictions; mainly alcohol, but drugs as well. I would suggest that on the degree and actual specific issue we’re dealing with or degree of issue we’re dealing with, that the services we have here are a starting point. If it’s a situation where a person is thoroughly addicted and is into some kind of withdrawal program as opposed to dealing with the issues that may be assisting or feeding or causing her to support her addiction -- the family issues, the other issues that may be there -- then we have to look at that. But we do have resources here in Yellowknife and most other communities where we have workers. We have arrangements with the Salvation Army here, to name where there are some resources as a starting point to deal with the initial counselling and the kind of further treatment that may be required. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger. Supplementary, Mr. Ramsay.

Supplementary To Question 262-15(3): Availability Of Northern Drug Addiction Services

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I’d like to thank the Minister for his response. With all the economic activity that’s happening in the Northwest Territories, the jobs, the money that flows from that, I mean, a strong economy is a good thing, but it also has some detrimental effects on society as a whole. Drug addiction is one of those detrimental effects, Mr. Speaker. I’m just wondering if the Minister has given any thought to the establishment of a dedicated drug and alcohol rehabilitation treatment centre in the Northwest Territories. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay. Mr. Miltenberger.

Further Return To Question 262-15(3): Availability Of Northern Drug Addiction Services

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, in the budget we do have about $247 million. We’re in the business planning process right now. It has been publicly announced that there are fiscal targets we are looking at as a government that there are restraint targets that we’re trying to hit as a government. Health, in fact, has to shoulder their share of that burden. So, Mr. Speaker, within that context, we rolled out, two years ago, a Mental Health and Addictions Strategy in response to the Chalmers report, State of Emergency. We’ve hit year one and two. Year three is on the books yet to be implemented. We’ve charted out a course of action that focuses on the community level and that’s still the intent. We do have our dedicated facility at Nats’ Ejee K’eh, which is also undergoing a review in terms of the adequacy of the program that is there.

I’d also just like to make the observation that I’ve been reading some information on treatment and addiction services and that the research shows that the most successful and cost-effective interventions tend to be those that are geared around outreach programs, that deal with the client in their environment with the other related contributing factors that may have, in fact, lead to the addiction. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger. Final supplementary, Mr. Ramsay.

Supplementary To Question 262-15(3): Availability Of Northern Drug Addiction Services

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I know there’s a program and treatment centre in Hay River that deals with alcohol addiction, but my main concern is for drug addiction. It’s becoming more prevalent every day in society in the Northwest Territories, especially with our young people. As I mentioned, the economy is growing stronger and people have more money; the problem is only going to grow. I’d like to ask the Minister if he will indeed have a look at setting up a dedicated treatment centre for drug addiction in the Northwest Territories. I think it’s something that we have to pay attention to and it’s important enough that our future depends on it and our kids are being affected every day, in small communities especially. It’s high time we did something about it. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay. Mr. Miltenberger.

Further Return To Question 262-15(3): Availability Of Northern Drug Addiction Services

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, this is a very important issue and an important discussion. The reality is that, yes, there are drug addiction problems, but the alcohol abuse and the addiction problems caused by alcohol dwarf the drug problems. We are struggling to deal with the addiction issues related to alcohol. Are we trying to deal with the drug addictions? We are, as well. Are we prepared to look at that? Yes, within the fiscal limitations that we have. We have some plans already in place and if you quantify, the actual problem is going to be the first step, and then we have to decide if it’s best to just build a facility to park people or is there a better way to deal with folks at the community level as we’re trying to do with the alcohol and mental health strategy that we rolled out. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My questions this afternoon will be for Mr. Bell, the Minister of Resources, Wildlife and Economic Development, on the status of our diamond industry. It was an interesting turn of events earlier this year where, I think it was in the spring, Mr. Speaker, we saw the release of the National Diamond Strategy, but also in short order a response from the mining industry that challenged some of the things that we’re doing up here. One of the specific ones was where the mining industry was claiming that our investment in the cutting and polishing industry was short-term unsustainable and the future was stark. Mr. Speaker, what is our government’s position vis-à-vis the mining industry’s assertion that our so far 160 people and $9 million is not a worthwhile investment? Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Braden. The Minister of Resources, Wildlife and Economic Development, Mr. Bell.

Return To Question 263-15(3): Sustainability Of The Diamond Industry

Mr. Speaker, thank you. Obviously, we think this is an industry with a lot of promise. It’s come a long way. I think it’s important to remember that this industry in Canada, never mind the Northwest Territories and North America, is truly in its infancy. It’s not many years now since the production began at the Ekati mine. Diavik followed. So we knew that there would be bumps in the road here. We think we have a sustainable industry. We think the factories that are operating now are doing a very good job. We do acknowledge that it is very competitive. We are dealing with labour, and the factories here have to be competitive with factories in other countries that enjoy much lower labour costs, but we think there are other advantages to being in Canada. We think there is a premium associated with Canadian diamonds.

We think we have no shortage of skilled labour across the country and the specific training programs can be put in place, as we’ve seen with Aurora College, to train our people. So we think this industry is here to stay. We think it currently adds value to the economy of the Northwest Territories and will continue to add value. The other piece, I guess I would say, Mr. Speaker, is that we have a broader vision that includes jewellery manufacturing and tourism, as the Member has already indicated, and we think this is just the start of a very valuable industry. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Bell. Supplementary, Mr. Braden.

Supplementary To Question 263-15(3): Sustainability Of The Diamond Industry

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Part of the success, as I’ve referred to in my statement, was the decision made 10 years ago by this government to stipulate, to demand that a portion of the production be reserved for cutting and polishing in the Northwest Territories. Here we have a successful or the start of a successful industry. Now, those deals were set up, I believe, with the people at BHP’s Ekati mine and with the Rio Tinto folks at Diavik. What is the status, Mr. Speaker, of the agreements with Aber, which is the third producer, and with the De Beers mine yet to come at Snap Lake? Do we have a similar kind of agreement for leaving or allocating part of their percentage for northern cutting and polishing, Mr. Speaker? Thank you.