Debates of October 20, 2004 (day 24)

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, the Minister of Health may have more detailed information to make a response. Thank you.

Next I have Mr. Villeneuve. I’m sorry, Mr. Miltenberger.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I appreciate the member’s comments and sense of chagrin and displeasure of the members. If I could just add this to the discussion here, the budgets that are done for health boards, since I’ve become Minister, there is no formula like there is with education. There is a process that has evolved over time, through historic use and ongoing forced growth in increments. We are in the process of trying to develop a funding formula.

With regard to this hospital, we, as a client, bought a design, we agreed to a design that was going to deliver these wonderful things in terms of space, new facility, energy efficiency, all these good things. We proceeded with that design on that, with those built-in assurances that this is the project that was going to be delivered. The facility was built. The budget that was there was the same budget that had run the old hospital. Because we didn’t have any actuals in terms of the cost, we were told run the hospital before you come back for extra money to see what it is going to cost. We found out very quickly that, yes, this is a spanking brand-new hospital and it’s twice the size and, in fact, it has twice the cost, contrary to the initial assumptions that we assumed were there and the assurances that we thought were built into this design. So the issue of did we buy a pig-in-a-poke, something, who miscalculated, those are all legitimate questions. We got a building that we, as a client, paid for, that the government paid for. We were the client, and that’s what the expectation was. So now we came back after two years with the demonstrated actuals that says yes, this design didn’t quite meet the specks, it cost lots more, and it’s an investment we have and we have to fund it. We don’t have to fund it, but it is a brand-new hospital that is providing a critical service. As we have learned once again, I mean what’s on paper and what you buy, what you think you’re getting and what you get when it’s actually built, in this case didn’t quite match, significantly didn’t match.

So here we are with the reality. We have a nice hospital that is delivering a service, but it’s costing more to run than what was budgeted; significantly more. So it’s not an issue of the health board should be required to eat this as the client. It’s a brand-new building. If we were off the mark on program spending, I would say yes, because we screwed up, because our estimates were really bad. But we are talking engineers, architects, all these hard service guys who do this for a living. So I’m sitting here as a Minister saying we have to come forward through the department, and I don’t mind taking the lumps when I’m in the wrong. But we got a building that was built for us, and it does not deliver in terms of the efficiencies and here we are. Thank you.

Thank you Mr. Miltenberger. Mr. Roland, would you like to add anything?

No, Mr. Chairman, I think Mr. Miltenberger and other responses we have made have covered this area, and we have committed to provide more information on the estimates that were used to substantiate the initial costs or estimations. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Roland. I’m noticing what time does the committee wish to…Mr. Zoe, your time was up earlier. I recognize Mr. Villeneuve.

I move that we report progress.

There is a motion on the floor, it is not debatable. All those in favour? All those opposed? The motion is carried.

---Carried

I will now rise and report progress. Thank you, Mr. Minister and Mr. Voytilla. Thanks a lot.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Your committee has been considering Bill 14, Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 4, 2003-2004, and Bill 13, Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 2004-2005, and would like to report that Bill 14 is ready for third reading. Mr. Speaker, I move that the report of Committee of the Whole be concurred with.

Thank you, Mr. Pokiak. The seconder? The honourable Member for Yellowknife Centre, Mr. Hawkins. The motion is in order. To the motion.

Question.

Question has been called. All those in favour? All those opposed? The motion is carried.

---Carried

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I move, seconded by the honourable Member for Weledeh, that Bill 10, Forgiveness of Debts Act, 2004-2005, be read for the third time. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Roland. The motion is in order. To the motion.

Question.

Question is being called. All those in favour? Opposed? The motion is carried.

---Carried

Mr. Speaker, there will be a meeting of the Accountability and Oversight committee at adjournment of the House today, and again at 9:00 tomorrow morning.

Orders of the day for Thursday, October 21st, at 1:30 p.m.:

Prayer

Ministers' Statements

Members' Statements

Reports of Standing and Special Committees

Returns to Oral Questions

Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery

Oral Questions

Written Questions

Returns to Written Questions

Replies to Opening Address

Petitions

Reports of Committees on the Review of Bills

Tabling of Documents

Notices of Motion

Notices of Motion for First Reading of Bills

Motions

First Reading of Bills

- Bill 17, Modernization of Benefits and Obligations

Act

- Bill 18, An Act to Amend the Territorial Court Act

Second Reading of Bills

- Bill 15, Tlicho Community Services Agency Act

- Bill 16, Northwest Territories Business

Development and Investment Corporation Act

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

- Minister's Statement 48-15(3), Sessional Statement

- Minister's Statement 49-15(3), Fiscal Update

- Minister's Statement 54-15(3), Progress Report on

Health and Social Services in the NWT

- Bill 13, Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2,

2004-2005

Report of Committee of the Whole

Third Reading of Bills

- Bill 14, Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 4,

2003-2004

Orders of the Day

Thank you, Mr. Clerk. Accordingly, this House stands adjourned until Thursday, October 21, 2004, at 1:30 p.m.

---ADJOURNMENT

The House adjourned at 6:00 p.m.