Debates of October 20, 2004 (day 24)

Thank you, Mrs. Groenewegen. Mr. Dent.

Further Return To Question 269-15(3): Impact Of Youth Criminal Justice Act

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, most communities in the Northwest Territories have a youth justice committee and, for the most part, young offenders are diverted to that committee. So residents in the community can decide what is an effective and appropriate manner of dealing with offenders. What it takes is an agreement or acknowledgement by the offender that they have committed an offence, and a willingness to work with the community to deal with that offence in an appropriate way. That is by far the biggest option that we have for young offenders in our communities across the North, but we are also operating programming for young folks at risk. For instance, in Arctic Tern the staff there have developed some programming that is offered to young people who are at risk but who have not been charged with offences, to try and help them develop the skills that it will take to keep them out of the facility. So there is some programming that has been undertaken from our department to try and deal with people like this. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Dent. Supplementary, Mrs. Groenewegen.

Supplementary To Question 269-15(3): Impact Of Youth Criminal Justice Act

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, by the way, I’m very encouraged to hear that the Arctic Tern is not just being used as a facility for incarceration, but that there is programming that is available as an alternative. That’s the first time that I heard that. I don’t sit on the Social Programs committee anymore, and that is very good news. That’s the kind of innovative, responsive way we need to deal with some of these issues. We have to think outside of how things have traditionally been done. Is there any other programming, Mr. Speaker, available to assist communities besides the youth justice committees? Is there any other assistance through the Department of Justice available to help communities who are dealing with issues of vandalism and crimes committed by youth? Thank you.

Thank you, Mrs. Groenewegen. Mr. Dent.

Further Return To Question 269-15(3): Impact Of Youth Criminal Justice Act

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the department has funded one RCMP officer to work as a community liaison person. That position has worked with the organizations in Yellowknife, Inuvik and Norman Wells. So there is a resource available from the RCMP to help, for instance, organize committees like the Wellness Coalition in Yellowknife. So, yes, there are programs available to help communities. We generally try and work through the justice committees in communities, because we have the infrastructure there to focus our activities. So they tend to be the focus, but we do provide other resources, yes.

Thank you, Mr. Dent. Final supplementary, Mrs. Groenewegen.

Supplementary To Question 269-15(3): Impact Of Youth Criminal Justice Act

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, it would assure me if I knew that young people who are incarcerated in young offenders’ facilities were able to receive programming which would address some of the issues in their lives which lead them to be in trouble with the law in the first place. I know, for example, through the young offenders’ facility in Hay River, at one time they did have a very good lands program for the youth which is intended to rehabilitate them. I think it was a program with a considerable amount of merit. So could the Minister please tell us, for those who are incarcerated in young offenders’ facilities, is there adequate programming now to help them deal with the issues that got them there in the first place? Thank you.

Thank you, Mrs. Groenewegen. Mr. Dent.

Further Return To Question 269-15(3): Impact Of Youth Criminal Justice Act

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. There is a wide range of programming available for young offenders in our facilities, everything from schooling to special programs aimed at troubled youth. The On-the-Land programs have had a bit of a setback in the recent past because we haven’t had enough people incarcerated to have the interest in going out to that kind of facility. The other problem we face, of course, is there has to be a willingness on the part of the person incarcerated to attend an On-the-Land program. They can’t be forced to attend it. But we have, in the past, offered those kinds of programs and we do offer a considerable range of programming aimed at helping young people get their lives back in order. I know that I’ve personally spent some time in the school at the young offenders’ facility here in Yellowknife, and I was quite surprised to see the range of programming that they can get involved in. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I have one more set of questions for the Minister responsible for the Housing Corporation. Mr. Speaker, there is a facility formerly occupied by the Northern Addictions Services in Detah, which I believe the government had some financial interest in and this facility has come back into the ownership and control of the GNWT. I’d like to ask Minister Krutko, Mr. Speaker, what is the status of the use of that facility at this time? Thank you.

Thank you, Mrs. Groenewegen. The Minister responsible for the Housing Corporation, the Honourable Mr. Krutko.

Return To Question 270-15(3): Status Of Somba K'e Lodge

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. In regard to the Somba K’e Lodge, we are looking at proposals. We have put out calls to different non-government organizations and are considering looking at usage for that facility. It is presently unoccupied. We’re paying somewhere in the range of $300,000 for the operational costs of that facility. We are looking at proposals from different organizations, the people in Detah and Ndilo and also we’ve been approached by the Salvation Army. So we are looking at offers right now.

Thank you, Mr. Krutko. Supplementary, Mrs. Groenewegen.

Supplementary To Question 270-15(3): Status Of Somba K'e Lodge

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, at one time that facility was contemplated as an option for a family treatment centre for families that had issues with addictions. I was wondering, Mr. Speaker, if the Minister would consider applications or proposals from either NGOs or the Department of Health and Social Services for a use like that for that facility. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mrs. Groenewegen. Mr. Krutko.

Further Return To Question 270-15(3): Status Of Somba K'e Lodge

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the facility is an asset of this government and because it is unoccupied, we are looking at offers right now. We’re open to discussing this matter with anyone who wants to come forward with a reasonable offer. It is open for proposals for which they should maybe contact the president of the corporation to open a dialogue. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Krutko. Supplementary, Mrs. Groenewegen.

Supplementary To Question 270-15(3): Status Of Somba K'e Lodge

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, would the Minister’s corporation give priority consideration to anyone who would use that facility for programming related to alcohol and drug addiction? Thank you.

Thank you, Mrs. Groenewegen. Mr. Krutko.

Further Return To Question 270-15(3): Status Of Somba K'e Lodge

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, we are open to finding a usage of that facility. If the Member is right, that facility was designed for an alcohol and drug treatment centre and the usage of it is restricted because of that. So the purpose of the facility does meet that goal. Like I said earlier, we are open to proposals and we’ll definitely look at anything out there right now because we are paying for this facility. It’s unoccupied and it is a $300,000 cost to the corporation just to keep the place heated. We are open to proposals.

Thank you, Mr. Krutko. Final supplementary, Mrs. Groenewegen.

Supplementary To Question 270-15(3): Status Of Somba K'e Lodge

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I understand it has been vacant for a number of months now and the Minister has shared the kind of operational costs. I think it’s been vacant for six months. If a good proposal for programming out of that facility were to come forward, how soon could that building be up and ready to go in terms of the structure of the facility at this time? Thank you.

Thank you, Mrs. Groenewegen, Mr. Krutko.

Further Return To Question 270-15(3): Status Of Somba K'e Lodge

Mr. Speaker, I think that is one of the problems that we're having, trying to get this unit taken over by someone else. We will not take on the responsibility of the O and M. We want to dispose of the asset by way of selling it outright, or basically working out some sort of a long-term lease agreement. But we do not feel that we can afford at this time to continue to pay for the operational costs and have that ongoing responsibility. We would like to offload that responsibility to an agency or organization to take that on.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Health and Social Services, Mr. Miltenberger, and it goes back to some of the things I alluded to in my Member's statement in that we have pieces of government infrastructure that are underutilized. The Somba K'e Lodge is one of those pieces of infrastructure. That building is not that old and it cost the government millions of dollars to construct and build, and it has sat empty I believe for a lot longer than six months, as I had mentioned earlier.

The question I have for Mr. Miltenberger is why his department isn't looking at taking over this building, the Somba K'e Lodge, and turning it into a treatment centre. Initially when it started out, it was designed to be a treatment centre, and that wasn't too long ago, Mr. Speaker. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay. The Minister of Health and Social Services, Mr. Miltenberger.

Return To Question 271-15(3): Somba K’e Lodge Use As Treatment Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, almost three years ago now we embarked on a plan, a Mental Health and Addictions Strategy. We had three separate years in it that we were going to fund, and it focussed on the community getting in wellness workers, mental health workers, some supervision, and looking at trying to beef up the support at the community level where the most immediate good work has to be done. That's the plan that we've been working off of to date. There is no money in the plan for any new major facility development at this point. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger. Supplementary, Mr. Ramsay.

Supplementary To Question 271-15(3): Somba K’e Lodge Use As Treatment Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the big dollar item is already on the ground there in the Somba K'e Lodge, and it was built as a treatment centre. Maybe the Minister can tell me why or what happened along the road that today we find it empty and not being used as a treatment centre, and it wasn't that long ago, Mr. Speaker. I'm just wondering what the reasons are for it not being used for its intended purpose. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay. Mr. Miltenberger.

Further Return To Question 271-15(3): Somba K’e Lodge Use As Treatment Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, if my memory serves me correctly, there was an arrangement in the days of old with the Department of Health and Northern Addictions Services. Then there was a move to an arrangement with federal Corrections Canada, where Somba K'e was to be used to provide services to federal inmates, and the relationship with the Department of Health and Social Services was severed. Somba K'e was used for that purpose and it wasn't sustainable, and that relationship ceased and there were other avenues explored trying to keep the facility alive. But at that point, there was no involvement with Health and Social Services. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger. Supplementary, Mr. Ramsay.

Supplementary To Question 271-15(3): Somba K’e Lodge Use As Treatment Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. From what I gather from the Minister, it's all about money. I guess the question I would have for the Minister is when are we going to try to find some money to get a dedicated treatment centre, whether or not it's in Yellowknife. That's a perfect piece of government infrastructure that isn't being used and that could house a treatment centre, Mr. Speaker. We cry the blues that we have no money, but we always seem to find money for this and that, and I think the health and the well-being of our citizens should be our number one priority, Mr. Speaker, and I can think of a lot of things that this government spends money on that isn't that important. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay. Mr. Miltenberger.

Further Return To Question 271-15(3): Somba K’e Lodge Use As Treatment Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, we can have the debate on where we should be putting a facility if, in fact, there was agreement to build one. If the Member is suggesting that we should scrap any further development at the community level and use that money for O and M for example, I think that would take some discussion. If he's suggesting that the Legislature is prepared to vote Health and Social Services new money, of course we would greatly accept that. But the debate on should we have more institutions as opposed to community infrastructure is one debate that we've already had, and we've charted out a course of action. There are, as I've indicated, no plans. I know that facility is sitting empty. We did look at it as a possible childcare site, and the costs were prohibitive for the money we had in the budget. When we looked at the possible conversion of that to a childcare facility, the cost was in the millions of dollars to bring it up to code and to make it suitable for use of children. So I don't know what it would cost if it was going to be restarted in a new capacity, but I do know that if it's going to be used for some new use, it's going to have to be brought up to 2004 code, specific to whatever the program use is going to be. If the experience we had on the child welfare side is any indication, it is in the millions of dollars on the child welfare side just to bring it up to code, let alone find O and M money. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger. Final supplementary, Mr. Ramsay.

Supplementary To Question 271-15(3): Somba K’e Lodge Use As Treatment Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, we weren't really discussing a childcare centre, we're discussing an addictions centre. I think if the Minister adds up the cost that this government pays to send people south and the programming that they receive while they're in the South -- you know, the airfares and everything else that this government spends on addictions and sending people south -- I think they could come up with some dollar figure and try to equate that to operating this facility.

Also, Mr. Speaker, there has been some new money announced for health. Just as a final question to the Minister, is any of this new money in health going to be earmarked for addictions and addictions services here in the Northwest Territories? Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay. Mr. Miltenberger.

Further Return To Question 271-15(3): Somba K’e Lodge Use As Treatment Centre

Mr. Speaker, the detail of new money is not available to any of us yet. But I can tell the Member, as I indicated earlier in this House, that year three of the mental health and addictions plan is there on the books ready to be rolled out, pending appropriate funding being available. If there is money for addictions, the intent would be to look at that third year, as well as clearing up some of the shortfalls and inadequacies that are there and that we have identified in the first two years as we rolled out the program to do with office space and those types of things. So if there is money available, definitely on my list, addictions and mental health is very, very high; in fact, it's a top item for me. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My written questions are to the Minister of Health and Social Services.

How many NWT youth are in treatment?

How many spaces in total are available in the NWT for treatment of youth?

How many NWT youth are waiting for placement in treatment?

What programs specifically targeted at youth, apart from residential treatment, are currently in place?

Would the Minister and the Department of Health and Social Services support the establishment of additional treatment programming for youth in existing infrastructure in the NWT?

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My written question today is for the Minister of Justice, Mr. Charles Dent.

How much has it cost the Department of Justice to date to correct wrongful dismissal suits at the North Slave Correctional Centre? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.