Debates of October 20, 2004 (day 24)

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, as I said in my Member’s statement today, I think that we are hearing more and more now of youth who are troubled and causing all kinds of incidents to occur in the communities in which they reside. Mr. Speaker, as I said in my statement, this is not just a one department or one agency or one community issue. This is a northern issue. I’d like to ask the Minister of Health and Social Services, what is in place right now for youth who are either needing treatment for addictions or needing treatment for behavioural problems. What options and tools are available for these youth in the Northwest Territories today? Thank you.

Thank you, Mrs. Groenewegen. The honourable Minister of Health and Social Services, Mr. Miltenberger.

Return To Question 260-15(3): Treatment Options Available For Youth In Trouble

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the Member raised the issue in her Member’s statement. It is a problem. It’s a problem in the community of Fort Smith and we hear it on the radio from other communities where MLAs’ communities are struggling with the issue and they have had community meetings, they have tried to get parents to the table, their community leadership, Health and Social Services, the RCMP, the teachers. It’s an issue that plagues us all. We have, as a department, some resources available. In most communities we have social workers, we have mental health workers, community wellness workers. There are some programs in the North -- Trail Cross Territorial Treatment Centre -- that are geared to mild or moderate behavioural problems. We have arrangements down south, four facilities as well, but those require some kind of arrangement where there’s an agreement between the department, either a custodial agreement that goes to court to temporary wardship or voluntary agreement that would allow those services to be brought to bear. They are very expensive and they tend to remove the child from where the problem is, which is their community and their family. So with regard to the issue that the Member is talking about, those are fundamentally community issues where we have resources there to deal with them. If individual cases warrant that there be greater attention paid to individual children, then we have capacity to do that. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger. Supplementary, Mrs. Groenewegen.

Supplementary To Question 260-15(3): Treatment Options Available For Youth In Trouble

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, quite often, as the Minister knows, because I know that in his former life prior to being an elected official he had much experience in the area of children at risk and children who needed to be in care, as did I as well, Mr. Speaker. But, Mr. Speaker, in the cases of emergencies when he talks about community resources in the cases of emergencies and the incidents are occurring with younger and younger children all the time, the two drug busts that have been referred to in Hay River were two 17 year olds from British Columbia who were making crack cocaine in a hotel room and selling it to kids just as young as that and younger. There are incidents of emergency responses being required to deal with these youth. For example, in Hay River tell me how things would be handled. Does the Minister have firsthand knowledge of whether or not there is a placement, an adequate placement option available to officials, social workers in a community like Hay River given an emergency-type situation such as was experienced this week? Thank you.

Thank you, Mrs. Groenewegen. Mr. Miltenberger.

Further Return To Question 260-15(3): Treatment Options Available For Youth In Trouble

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the Member raises an issue that there is no clear answer to. If she’s talking about how do you deal with a near adult that is still 17 or 18, then I can tell you that it’s not the normal practice to apprehend. If they are involved in a drug bust, if they are from out of province and they are found doing crack cocaine in their hotel room, then I would suggest the issue that the Member raised is one that is not clearly a child welfare issue and that there are other factors. If it’s a situation where they are from out of province, then it is another situation. The normal course of events dealing with children and family tend to focus on children that are much younger. There is very little capacity to deal with teenagers, especially as they get close to being at the age of majority where they have their own rights. If it’s not a young offender situation and it requires a voluntary agreement that they have to be a party to, then it is often very difficult to get their concurrence. So the Member has identified an area where there are no clear answers. There are resources when there is agreement by all the concerned parties, but those for the most part tend to be located down south. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger. Supplementary, Mrs. Groenewegen.

Supplementary To Question 260-15(3): Treatment Options Available For Youth In Trouble

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. So just so we understand then, if we are dealing with, for example, a 16-year-old who is, as you say, near adulthood and that youth does not want to comply with any kind of a structured plan of care or program, there is nothing that we can do short of them being apprehended by officials associated with justice because of a criminal act. So if they want to run, if they want to hide, if they want to just wreak havoc in the community, what you are saying is there are no resources available to this government or anywhere else to deal with these young people. Is that what the Minister is saying? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mrs. Groenewegen. Mr. Miltenberger.

Further Return To Question 260-15(3): Treatment Options Available For Youth In Trouble

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, what I am saying is that when you are dealing with teenagers, unless there is an apprehension and they are put into some kind of custodial agreement under the Child Welfare Act, it’s very difficult if they are not willing to partake in whatever program is laid out to force them to that. People around this table know, and those that are old enough to have teenagers will know that teenagers are very strong minded. They have minds of their own. They also have their own rights as young adults. So there are places, there are some legal vehicles like apprehending, like trying to get a wardship temporary or permanent, but it’s not the norm and it’s very difficult to be effective. For example, if you take under the Child Welfare Act somebody that is 16 or 17 and put them in a facility and they decide, unless it is going to be a locked, secure facility, then chances are and history has shown myself and the Member will know as well, young people don’t want to stay where they are placed, then it is very easy for them not to stay. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger. Your final supplementary, Mrs. Groenewegen.

Supplementary To Question 260-15(3): Treatment Options Available For Youth In Trouble

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I made reference to gaps in the system. All right, let’s go down to a younger age of a child. The child is not a ward of the GNWT, a major incident occurs. What resources do Social Services have at their disposal to deal with a child who is in virtually the custody of no one on a temporary basis until such time as court cases can be arranged for and applications can be made? What do we do in the emergency-type situations? Does he know? Are there foster placements? Are there group homes? Are there treatment facilities available with spaces, with vacancies right now as we speak, to deal with these children? Thank you.

Thank you, Mrs. Groenewegen. Mr. Miltenberger.

Further Return To Question 260-15(3): Treatment Options Available For Youth In Trouble

Mr. Speaker, we have group homes, we have foster homes, we have arrangements. We have two facilities of our own as I have indicated: Trail Cross and the Territorial Treatment Centre here in Yellowknife. We have arrangements with a number of facilities in Alberta and in Saskatchewan. The issue that provoked this debate was the Member’s statement and vandalism and what happens when children in the community are out of control. Their family is the first starting point.

We as a department have learned a hard lesson where if we just arbitrarily reach in -- because there’s a concern and we yank the child out, put them in the permanent wardship, we ship them off because of something that they may have done that’s inappropriate -- that has led in the past to a whole history of problems with permanent wards, children in systems that are there until they graduate at 18 out to the adult system, because that’s all they’ve known is institutional life. So there are vehicles, but, very clearly, we have learned that to start to deal with problems at the community level with families and children you have to involve the children and the families and the community.

I’ve heard here and I know from personal experiences to try to keep the children in the communities and work with them to resolve their behaviour. We also know that if you take a child out of the community and put them in a facility, when they come out unless there has been some work done at the community level and at the family level then the chance that they are going to revert to the same kind of behaviour that got them into trouble in the first place is very, very high. So this is not just a simple issue of do we have enough places to park all the children in our communities that are causing us problems. There are some very, very fundamental issues to do with families and their role in this and how we work collaboratively to try to deal with these problems, recognizing the history we have and the mistakes we’ve made in the past with the child welfare system. Thank you.