Debates of October 20, 2006 (day 12)

Thank you, Mr. Handley. Supplementary, Mr. Ramsay.

Supplementary To Question 153-15(5): Federal Government Budget Reductions

Yes, thank you, Mr. Speaker. I’m wondering if when the Premier spoke to…And I thank him for his response. Can we use what has happened to us with these cuts as a leverage or another example to the federal government of why the Northwest Territories is different? We’re not a province; we’re a territory. We’re being treated unfairly. We’re being taken advantage of on a daily basis and until we’re treated fairly, we should be treated differently at the very least. Again, we’re not a province. We’re on a fixed income. I know the Premier had mentioned that he’s going to communicate that in writing and I’d like for the Regular Members on this side of the House to get a copy of that letter. I’d like to see it and I’d like to see that letter state quite clearly that we are not going to accept these types of things happening to us until we’re dealt with fairly. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay. Mr. Handley.

Further Return To Question 153-15(5): Federal Government Budget Reductions

Mr. Speaker, I will commit to making a copy of the letters that I’m sending both to Minister Prentice and to Minister Harper available to the Members. Mr. Speaker, Ottawa’s a long ways away and they sometimes just don’t understand that the situation is different for us. I find it frustrating when I hear the Minister of DIAND talking about the per capita amounts that Ottawa gives us at $17,000 compared to $8000 in Newfoundland, as if our costs were the same across the country. We know, and I’m sure that he knows very well, that our costs are much different here given our big geography, the challenges we have in the Northwest Territories. So there’s a lot of these kinds of issues that we’ll continue to push away at, but, Mr. Speaker, I don’t want us to get caught in just talking about the cuts. I want to keep our eye on that big picture because that’s what’s going to make the difference, is we get our fair share of money through the resource revenues. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Handley. Supplementary, Mr. Ramsay.

Supplementary To Question 153-15(5): Federal Government Budget Reductions

Yes, thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I’d like to ask the Premier, in that letter perhaps he could include something to the effect that we want to see all the money that was cut from programs here in the Northwest Territories reinstated. And I’m talking every last dollar reinstated until our government gets a deal with the federal government in terms of resource revenue sharing. I think that is fair and that is what’s fair to the residents here in the Northwest Territories, and that’s what they’re asking us to do and to represent them and I think that’s fair and that has to be in that letter. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay. Mr. Handley.

Further Return To Question 153-15(5): Federal Government Budget Reductions

Mr. Speaker, I will certainly do that. I’m not sure of the exact wording we’ll use, but we will do it and make the point that we don’t have adequate funding. As I mentioned in the sessional statement, the current situation just simply is not sustainable and we have to get that message to the federal government, whether it’s through reinstating this money or a combination of this plus, as I say, the resource revenues. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. I’m just going to ask some of the same questions that I was asking the Minister of Education yesterday, but my questions are going to be directed to the Minister of Housing. The rent scale policy that we have in place, the old rent scale policy, I just want to ask the Minister, can he put something on the record to indicate that the Housing Corporation is going to possibly review the rent scale policy that touches a lot of people here in the NWT; a policy which creates a disincentive to seek employment for public housing clients, creates dissention towards the LHOs, the staff, government employees, and it develops a lack of respect for public housing stock by people who are in public housing? In other words, they just don’t care about wrecking the place because they don’t pay rent on it anyway. A lot of them don’t pay their fair share, anyway. So I’m just wondering if the Minister can let people know that, yes, his department is going to review the rent scale policy, one that is perhaps based on net income or based on annual income, taxable income, but not one that’s based on bingo winnings and card game winnings and based on hearsay, what people think the neighbours make? Can he do that for our public housing clients? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Villeneuve. The honourable Minister responsible for housing, Mr. Krutko.

Return To Question 154-15(5): Rent Scale Policy For Public Housing

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the department is looking at the rental rate review in which we are hoping to have something come forward in conjunction with what’s happening with the transfer of the social housing subsidy and also realizing that we do have to be open, transparent and fair to all our clients across the territory. So we are looking at it in conjunction of a universal review of the whole program throughout the territory. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Krutko. Supplementary, Mr. Villeneuve.

Supplementary To Question 154-15(5): Rent Scale Policy For Public Housing

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. That’s good. That’s good news, I think. At least they are reviewing this policy, which has been under a lot of scrutiny for a number of years. I just don’t think that it has worked and it’s definitely not working today, especially in the small communities where public housing accommodates a large majority of the communities. I just want to ask the Minister, when can we expect perhaps a draft of the changes or some recommendations, or how far are we along with seeing some substantive change? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Villeneuve. Mr. Krutko.

Further Return To Question 154-15(5): Rent Scale Policy For Public Housing

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, in conjunction with ECE and ourselves in regards to how we are laying out the whole idea of the household subsidy and also looking at the whole rental scale systems that we use, I think we are looking at arrangements that have been done in Nunavut, other places in the country, and also realizing that we are similar in nature to other jurisdictions. Seeing what’s happening in those other jurisdictions and ensuring that we have a system that is either consistent with other jurisdictions, but it’s fair to our tenants and the residents in the Northwest Territories. I think right now, from the issues that we’ve heard in this House, the concerns I’ve heard going into communities, we do have a system that we have to revisit. I think we are looking at that. I’m hoping to have something ready within the next number of weeks so I can take it to committee and possibly have a chance to review it then. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Krutko. Supplementary, Mr. Villeneuve.

Supplementary To Question 154-15(5): Rent Scale Policy For Public Housing

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. It’s good to know that they are reviewing other jurisdictions, because I myself have done some reviews of other jurisdictions and they seem to have kind of tossed this whole rent policy out the door and went on something like their taxable income for people, which would alleviate their level of anxiety of how much their rent is going to be from one month to the next. At least they don’t have to file their monthly rental claims every month and people are more in tune to seek meaningful employment for a given year given the fact that they know what they’re rent is going to be in the next six months as opposed to what it’s going to be in the next month. So I just want to inform the Minister, I guess let the Minister know, that there is a lot of ideas and a lot of options out there and I think that it’s prudent that his department do a thorough review of the old policy and hopefully we’ll have something in place in the next six months. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Villeneuve. Mr. Krutko.

Further Return To Question 154-15(5): Rent Scale Policy For Public Housing

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, we are looking at the whole area of who do we calculate rent from gross income versus another system that we use looking at the…I think it’s important that whatever we do we are going to have to…Any rent that we change we have to ensure that we follow the tenants act that is in place by notifying our clients that there is going to be a change, and also whatever we do here has to conform with how we are able to not only look at the policies that we have within the government, but also ensuring that we have a system that’s working in conjunction with other programs. One of them is the subsidy that presently is in place with regards to ECE, how that’s going to be worked into the program so that we don’t have people that are treated unfairly. But more importantly, that we look at all aspects of it from gross income to looking at a new formula of how people pay, what’s the percentages. I think at the end of the day it has to pan out that we have the ability to continue to operate the corporation but, more importantly, do it in a fair system that it meets the residents’ needs. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I wanted to continue these questions to the Minister of Education, Culture and Employment in regards to the Seniors' Fuel Subsidy Program. Mr. Speaker, in the communities there are some elders who receive this subsidy and some of the elders that don’t receive this subsidy. In some of the communities, it causes conflict between the elders. Some of the elders who say they should also be receiving because of the hard work they have done and the pensions that now they’re receiving from the jobs that they worked at. They don’t have any subsidies, and yet they’re still struggling with other elders who are on this fuel subsidy. So I want to ask the Minister in terms of adjusting the threshold for all elders to be eligible in some sense for this subsidy. There’s some elders that work hard, that are said they make too much money. They can’t give you the subsidy. Elders just shake their head. So they get conflict with their neighbours. They say all elders should be treated the same. Maybe some levels some elders should get more subsidy, but that’s what they’re saying and it’s causing a lot of friction and a lot of conflict in the communities. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Yakeleya. The honourable Minister responsible for Education, Culture and Employment, Mr. Dent.

Return To Question 155-15(5): Elders' Fuel Subsidy Programs

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Whether or not all of our seniors’ programs should be universal or whether or not they should be income tested is part of the process that we’re going through as we review our income security programs. I intend to discuss that sort of approach with the Standing Committee on Social Programs and Members of this Legislative Assembly as we come up with program design. The important thing to keep in mind will, of course, be the cost. We’re going to have to take a look at what we can do for program change with an existing cost and what we might be able to do if we’re able to spend a little more money or take some money out of one program to put into another. But this is going to take a lot of work to try to figure out where we can find extra money to put into the program like the Member’s asking me to do right now. So I’ve committed that I will work with the committee to examine just exactly how we should handle this sort of program. I can’t promise that it’s going to be resolved before this winter heating season, but it is something that we expect to have resolved before the next winter heating season. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Dent. Supplementary, Mr. Yakeleya.

Supplementary To Question 155-15(5): Elders' Fuel Subsidy Programs

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I know it’s going to be a costly initiative. I know the existing dollars are not right now in this government. But there’s got to be some creative solution from this side and from the House here. We can’t go back to the elders in Colville Lake, Deline, Fort Good Hope and say to them listen, we have to wait another year. Sorry, but we don’t have enough money. That’s unacceptable. Mr. Speaker, we have to go back to the communities and tell the elders this is what we can do, this is emergency funding, this is what we’re doing with it. Oil companies are doing it with the other agencies to get fuel into the communities, either be it wood or diesel fuel. So we have to come back. So I’m going to ask again to this Minister, can he go back to this Cabinet, ask his Cabinet members to think about doing something so that we can give the elders a break in terms of this program for this winter? I understand where he’s coming from, but it’s unacceptable. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Yakeleya. Mr. Dent.

Further Return To Question 155-15(5): Elders' Fuel Subsidy Programs

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, this government respects and honours the seniors in the Northwest Territories. We’re probably the only government in Canada that provides this kind of fuel subsidy to our residents, but we don’t have money right now to make this a universal program and there are a lot of seniors who can afford to pay for their own fuel.

There are seniors who have had government jobs and have pensions. So not everybody is going to be treated exactly the same right now. The program is set up that we have to live within the money that was budgeted. It was approved by Members of this House in February of this year. I’m prepared to look at all of the options. But you know, as Mr. Ramsay said earlier today, we don’t have a lot of money to respond to last-minute issues. So when prices go up all of a sudden, it hurts us. When the federal government cuts us all of a sudden, it hurts us. We don’t have the flexibility to all of a sudden just start adding to our programs halfway through the year. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Dent. Short supplementary, Mr. Yakeleya.

Supplementary To Question 155-15(5): Elders' Fuel Subsidy Programs

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I apologize to the Minister. Mr. Speaker, I wanted to ask the Minister if he would conduct, do a sweep or a survey of all the communities that have elders that are living independently that need help there. He’ll have unanimous support by the elders in terms of this is what we need. It’s not much. We have money. We’re putting our money to other priorities. We’re talking about priorities and there is money in this government. Shift them to the elders first. Do the basic thing. Do the right thing. Help them out for this year. That would eliminate all the stress and conflict with our elders in the communities. Put the money in the people, not in the buildings. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Yakeleya. Mr. Dent.

Further Return To Question 155-15(5): Elders' Fuel Subsidy Programs

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. As I said, this government does respect and honour its elders. We don’t charge rent for seniors in social housing. We have increased, in this year's budget, the pension amount that we provide to seniors. We do provide a heating subsidy to seniors who are in need and our income support, as a means of last resort for seniors who need help. So, Mr. Speaker, I will continue to look at the program and see what we can do, but I don’t want to give the Members false hope that I have a lot of room to move. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Dent. Final supplementary, Mr. Yakeleya.

Supplementary To Question 155-15(5): Elders' Fuel Subsidy Programs

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, it’s not giving myself here false hope. It’s giving false hope to the elders. We have to take care of them. We have to do something out of the extraordinary to take care of them. Give them the fuel. They are complaining to me in Colville Lake. So will the Minister do the honourable thing and respect the elders, give them the fuel that they need this year, talk to your Cabinet Ministers and give them a break? Don’t break the elders. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Yakeleya. Mr. Dent.

Further Return To Question 155-15(5): Elders' Fuel Subsidy Programs

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I've heard the honourable Member from the other side and we'll look at what our options are. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I'd like to use the remainder of the question period to pose one more question to the Premier and it's in regards to what I heard this morning from the study that was done by Alternatives North, which suggests that the potential income, or revenue, or profit, from the pipeline development for industry could be as high as $17 billion.

Wow!

I think we understand that this is a mega, mega project, and the latest figure I've heard was a $7 billion investment required by the consortium and the cost is going up. But even at $10 billion, a $17 billion profit is quite healthy. It's an 80 to 100 percent return. I think anybody would go for that.

Take care of the elders.

I think what we are looking at is what portion of $17 billion or any relation to that does this government stand to gain from that. Could the Premier enlighten the House as to what his response is to that?

Thank you, Ms. Lee. Honourable Premier, Mr. Handley.

Return To Question 156-15(5): Mackenzie Valley Gas Project Profits

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. We have a copy of the presentation that was made; we've seen some media reports on it. We're doing a review of it now to try to figure out how they arrived at the numbers they have. If it is $17 billion profit, I agree with the Member, that is a lot of profit. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Handley. Supplementary, Ms. Lee.

Supplementary To Question 156-15(5): Mackenzie Valley Gas Project Profits

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I just want to be clear that I don't have a problem with people making a profit. I mean that's what makes the markets go around. Good on them if the companies can come and make profits. I'm interested in what is the GNWT getting in this development project. I think it is the resources of our territory; it has a lot to do with our future economic prosperity. Good on the aboriginal governments for working hard to get what is beneficial to them, but I have to tell you that we have to be very concerned that in the whole mix of things we've got nothing so far…

Nothing.

Nothing. Zip.

…for the territorial government. So what is the Premier going to do, in light of this new information, to stand up for the NWT and for this government? Thank you.

Stand up.