Debates of October 20, 2006 (day 12)

Mahsi, Mr. Yakeleya. Minister Roland.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. There's a number of factors that play a role here. Year by year it would fluctuate. With our stronger economy in the Northwest Territories, the job market being as robust as it is, more people employed and being able to meet their payment plans and so on has been good in that sense. So it would fluctuate from year to year. Yes, over the last number of years, the government has tightened up on its collection side to ensure that we clean up that section of area and government accounting. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Thank you, Minister Roland. Next on the list I have Mr. Villeneuve.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I just have a quick question with regard to the total amount of debts that the government wants forgiven in this act. After these debts are forgiven, does the government continue to pursue payment of these debts? I think we just write them off here in the House for government accounting procedures. I know other government organizations that do forgive debts, like LHOs, for instance, after they are forgiven and taken off the books, they still continue to pursue payment of some of these debts. Is that what the government does today? Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Villeneuve. Mr. Minister.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, with our process that we have in place within government, our system is set up in two stages. The first one would be the Write-off of Debts Act that would come forward. That would stop the collection or the interest from continuing to grow. It clearly establishes a doubtful account. At that point, we still go after trying to collect the funds.

At this stage here, forgiveness of debts, we are actually forgiving the debt and no further collection process is undertaken from this point on. Thank you.

Thank you, Minister Roland. Mr. Villeneuve.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Can the Minister just tell me, is it just due to the lack of resources that we don’t continue to pursue...Some of these debts are pretty big. Is it just because of human resources reasons that we don’t do that? Is it the workload? What are the reasons that we don’t continue to collect? Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Villeneuve. Minister Roland.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, we undertake a number of avenues of trying to collect funds from those who owe money to the Government of the Northwest Territories through a number of initiatives, but there are a number of factors that we do have to live by as well as the Government of the Northwest Territories. Some of these accounts or loans, grants that were put in place had attached to them guarantees and so on in place, or a business that was established would shut down and go out of business and all assets may have been sold, but not enough to repay the full debt.

At times, we also run out of time. It’s what is called statute barred that we would not be able to continue to pursue. That comes into play as well. When we have someone that would decease, that also sets this into action. When we reach what we would call a compromised settlement where we have looked at the situation realizing we aren’t going to get the full amount that is owed and come up with a settlement on what we are able to come back with and collect. So there are a number of factors that do come into play here.

Thank you, Minister Roland. Next I will go for more general comments. Any further general comments? There are no further general comments, so we will move into consideration of Bill 10, Forgiveness of Debts Act, 2006-2007. Committee, we will stand down consideration of the clause-by-clause review and deal with the schedule of the bill to begin our review process. If I could direct committee’s attention to please turn to page 3, schedule, debts forgiveness, items one to 15 are found on page 3. Are there any questions or comments on page 3?

Agreed.

Let’s now turn to page 5, item 16 to 32. Are there any questions on those items?

Agreed.

Thank you. On page 7, items 33 to 49. Are there any questions?

Agreed.

Moving right along, we will turn to page 9, items 50 to 67.

Agreed.

The final page on the schedule is page 11, item 68 to 72. Mr. Villeneuve.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I just have a quick question on the debt on the workers’ compensation assessment for Northern American Tungsten Corporation for $101,871.80. Could the Minister provide some clarification on what that debt was for and why it’s being written off? Thank you.

Mahsi, Mr. Villeneuve. Minister Roland.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, that debt is being forgiven as a result of a court settlement. Thank you.

Thank you, Minister Roland. Mr. Villeneuve.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I guess the government lost the court settlement. I just wanted more clarification of why we are writing off $100,000 for a company that seems to me is still in operation here in the NWT. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Villeneuve. Minister Roland.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, as I stated, we tried a number of avenues to collect the money that is due to ourselves in a number of areas. This initially came out of the Workers’ Compensation Board of NWT and Nunavut and the amount that was owed to them. The company itself reopened in 2001 and at the end of 2003 was forced to apply to the British Columbia Supreme Court for protection under the Companies Creditors Arrangement Act. That was received in December of that year. So that’s what kicked this off. Thank you.

Thank you, Minister Roland. Anything further, Mr. Villeneuve?

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Just for my own understanding, are we following a court order from the province of B.C. in writing off this debt? Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Villeneuve. Minister Roland.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The company would have been registered in that province and filed in that province. The portion we received was applied to that account and that would be directed by the courts what creditors would be given with what’s available. In this case, this is the amount we were not able to recover and hence we are coming forward for a write-off. Thank you.

Thank you, Minister Roland. Next I have Mr. Braden.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I, too, have an inquiry about item 72, North American Tungsten Corporation, a debt to the Workers’ Compensation Board for almost $102,000. The question I guess I have, Mr. Chairman is jurisdiction. Why is this item before this committee? We don’t typically, in fact at all, does this Assembly approve anything to do with the Workers’ Compensation Board, not a penny. They are an independent organization with their own administration and I guess I can’t recall when something like this has come before us. Why is it that we are asked to sign off on something that the compensation board, from my understanding, should have jurisdiction, Mr. Chairman?

Thank you, Mr. Braden. Minister Roland.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, presently the way the Financial Administration Act is worded, it does identify that all write-offs have to flow through this process. It is something that we’ve recognized as an issue. In the re-workings of coming forward with a new FAA, that will be taken into account. Thank you.

Thank you, Minister Roland. Mr. Braden.

While we are on a technicality here, this is a shared Workers’ Compensation Board. Does Nunavut have to go through a similar clunkety-clunk, Mr. Chair?

Thank you, Mr. Braden. Minister Roland.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I would have to get that detail. I am unsure if Nunavut has to follow the same process. It is a joint coverage. I am not sure if their FAA is written identical to ours. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Roland. Mr. Braden.

So in other cases, Mr. Chairman, with the Workers’ Compensation Board where forgiveness is the logical thing to do, is the Workers’ Compensation Board actually involved in going through that process and making that decision, or do they punt their bad debts over to us for management? Who looks after bad accounts on the part of the WCB, Mr. Chairman?

Thank you, Mr. Braden. Minister Roland.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. WCB is directly involved with this process. They go through their own process of taking this into account. In fact, the majority of information provided to us is as a result of WCB’s work they provided to us because they recognize the act in place and follow that process through. So they have developed it. They have taken it into account and put it into their doubtful accounts, but because of our act, the way it’s written, have provided us with that information. In a sense, it’s a final clearance. Thank you.

Thank you, Minister Roland. Mr. Braden.

Finally, Mr. Chairman, just for clarification. The WCB then has full responsibility and accountability for its own debts and its own books. The GNWT does not get involved in it in any way except for this administrative situation here with managing or handling or deciding on their debt portfolio, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Mr. Braden. Minister Roland.

Yes, that’s correct. The WCB is fully involved in their own process. It comes to our table again just because of the Financial Administration Act and we put it through this final stage. Thank you.

Thank you, Minister Roland. We are still on page 11, the final page, and that is page 11 to the schedule, item 68 to 72. Any further questions on that page?

Agreed.

Thank you, committee. The total of debts forgiven is $655,035.55. Are there any questions to that amount?

Agreed.