Debates of October 21, 2004 (day 25)

The Member is seeking unanimous consent to conclude his statement. Are there any nays? There are no nays. You may conclude your statement, Mr. Braden.

Mr. Speaker, as I have said, some $200 million flowing into federal coffers that are already bulging under a $9.1 billion surplus. We get about $8 million out of this $200 million. I do the math, Mr. Speaker, and it just doesn’t figure, especially as our Legislature struggles this year on how to pay our $20 million of our budgets for health, education, housing and other matters.

Mr. Speaker, we often hear criticism and outrage of how huge multinational corporations plunder the resources of developing nations. They get away with it by taking advantage of lax, uncoordinated and short-sighted governments. Is the NWT any different? Why are we allowing this to happen?

Mr. Speaker, our northern governments have got to pull together now more than ever, to put aside our differences and pull together on the urgency for a deal to share our resources. The message we need to spread across Canada and especially in the halls of Parliament and the bureaucracies of Ottawa, is that Canada must choose finally to cast off the regressive mantel of colonialism toward the NWT.

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Ottawa must see that we are a genuine, vital and legitimate part of the Canadian federation. We are a player, a partner, and more than a source of cash, Mr. Speaker. We ask only to be treated fairly and equitably. It is time for the agreements on devolution and resource revenue sharing to be a reality for us and the aboriginal governments of this land. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Thank you, Mr. Speaker. When I think about the Mackenzie Valley pipeline it raises a number of concerns for me; primary concerns such as what it will do to benefit northerners. We should be asking these questions for a long time. We had been, is the way I see it. At this time, I think we should know some of the answers before we break ground. Our return to the Mackenzie Valley pipeline for the Northwest Territories without a resource revenue sharing agreement is expected to be $900 million over the next 30 years compared to what the federal government’s share is, which is almost $22 billion.

Mr. Speaker, this adds insult to injury. The federal government also seeks to reduce our grant for taking our small piece of the pie from the pipeline revenue. Mr. Speaker, this is raping and pillaging of the NWT and this needs to stop now.

Hear! Hear!

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Mr. Speaker, I want to make it clear, our milk is no longer free, so stop taking it, federal government.

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It’s time to marry the cow into a real agreement.

---Laughter

Until the federal government gives the Northwest Territories our share of resource revenues, until they invest into our protected areas, the Northwest Territories isn’t prepared to risk our beautiful environment to become what one environmental group called us, “America’s gas tank.”

Hear! Hear!

The GNWT is investing so much money in the pipeline; we’re opening new offices, we’re hiring more people in the government, we’re doing assessment after assessment without really knowing what our return on the investment is going to be. If we took all the money that we have invested in the pipeline strategy and we put it into early childhood education or a stronger arts program or something better yet, such as youth, we’d be seeing real tangible results, Mr. Speaker. Real results. Mr. Speaker, as I see it, we are racing to build a pipeline, but unfortunately there is no race for the Americas that compels us to head first into an early childhood education program and that’s a real shame.

Mr. Speaker, I’m also concerned about the Alaskan pipeline, the way the United States Senate has passed legislation designed to jump start the construction of the pipeline down the Alaska Highway. This bill includes permitting approvals and loan guarantees worth nearly $18 billion U.S. Mr. Speaker, that’s $22 billion Canadian and to make my point even clearer, America is subsidizing their pipeline 24 times the amount…

Mr. Hawkins, your time for your Member’s statement has expired.

Thank you. Mr. Speaker, may I seek unanimous consent to conclude my statement? Thank you.

The Member is seeking unanimous consent to conclude his statement. Are there any nays? There are no nays. You may conclude your statement, Mr. Hawkins.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Thank you, honourable colleagues. Mr. Speaker, I’ll say again, this bill includes permitting approvals and loan guarantees worth nearly $18 billion U.S. That’s $22 billion Canadian, as I’ve said. To make that point, as I’ve stressed, clearly that’s 24 times what the GNWT will get over our life of this project. Mr. Speaker, that does not make any fiscal sense. Mr. Speaker, the GNWT should be working with the Americas about buying off and sitting still for 20 years because we’d be much further ahead making a side deal than trying to charge into this in competition with them.

Mr. Speaker, if the Alaska pipeline goes first, what happens to all our time, money and efforts that we’ve invested over the last many years? What happens while we wait for the next 20 to 30 years? I think that may be a waste without any type of certainty.

Mr. Speaker, I do want to support this pipeline, I truly do, because I see tangible benefits. All our northern peoples can gain from this. But from where I’m sitting, it looks like this territory is carrying all the risk and this hasn’t changed over the years. We need rock solid guarantees from our federal government that warrant our investment. We need a change of attitude from the federal government for us to truly get on board.

Mr. Speaker, in closing, I look upon the United States as being a big giant, those Philistines of the Americas. Mr. Speaker, tell me our Premier is not our little David out there on the plains with an unloaded slingshot.

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Mr. Speaker, we need something concrete, not guarantees and promises where we take an empty leap of faith. Mr. Speaker, our shepherds better have a pouch full of concrete investment of smooth, solid rocks before we take on that giant. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I’d like to recognize a friend today: Major Karen Hoeft.

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Thank you, Mr. Dent. Item 6, recognition of visitors in the gallery. The honourable Member for Hay River South, Mrs. Groenewegen.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I was going to recognize the folks who are visiting with us here in the Northwest Territories from the CPAC channel that are interviewing a number of Members and northerners to put together a documentary about us. Thank you and good luck.

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Thank you, Mrs. Groenewegen. Item, 6, recognition of visitors in the gallery. The honourable Member for Yellowknife Centre, Mr. Hawkins.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. You already mentioned their names, but I would like to mention a fine constituent of mine who is Pat McMahon, a former mayor of this fine city of Yellowknife. In her fine company is Captain Tony Evans of the HMCS Yellowknife. I’d like to draw to the attention of all Members of this House that I’m wearing the Yellowknife ship’s pin right on my chest here with pride. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Item 6, recognition of visitors in the gallery. The honourable Member for Nunakput, Mr. Pokiak.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I’d like to recognize Walter Goose from Holman. Thank you.

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Thank you, Mr. Pokiak. Item 6, recognition of visitors in the gallery. The honourable Member for Sahtu, Mr. Yakeleya.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I’d like to recognize the great goaltender from Deline, Danny Gaudet, and the community’s good negotiator for self-government. Welcome, Danny.

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Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I’d like to direct my questions today to the Premier of the Northwest Territories, the Honourable Joe Handley. Mr. Speaker, in following up on one of the statements of my colleagues on the subject of leadership, I have already, during this session, briefly touched on this subject with the Premier and asked him some questions. Mr. Speaker, I think this is a very timely discussion with respect to the pipeline. The Premier has heard many Members today refer to some of the frustrations that we feel with the response we have received over the years when dealing with the federal government about the northern agenda. I think this is a very timely matter and I would like to have the Premier, on the eve of his departure to Ottawa again to speak with the powers that be, again share with us why he thinks we, as Members and elected leaders in the Northwest Territories, should feel encouraged and why we should feel that the federal government does understand and hear our issues and has them, in fact, on their agenda. Thank you.

Thank you, Mrs. Groenewegen. The honourable Premier, Mr. Handley.

Return To Question 272-15(3): Federal Government Understanding Of Northern Issues

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I am confident that we have the attention of the federal government. We have the attention of a lot of Canadians as a result of work that the previous Premier has done and work that I’ve done as Premier, as well as Members, the business sector and my colleagues on Cabinet. We have made sure that our issues are on the radar screen across Canada.

Mr. Speaker, there are a lot of signals that I have to read between because we don’t have concrete agreements on a lot of things. But when the Primer Minister appointed the Honourable Anne McLellan, Deputy Prime Minister, as the lead on the Mackenzie Valley pipeline file, that sent a strong signal to me that this is a very important issue to him and one that he hopes to achieve success on.

The second one is in the Throne speech and in discussions with me and with others earlier on, the Prime Minister has made a commitment to develop a northern strategy. In fact, our Member of Parliament has been named as the Minister of Northern Development. I think that sends a strong signal, and he has offered to do that in cooperation with northern governments, with ourselves, with aboriginal governments and generally with northerners. It says to me that the federal government is, at least at the political level, paying attention to what is going on in the North and have recognized the huge potential that the Northwest Territories has to contribute to this country of ours.

Mr. Speaker, I am confident we have the attention. Now the challenge before us is how to take that attention, that interest in the North, and translate it into real benefits for us as northerners. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Handley. Supplementary, Mrs. Groenewegen.

Supplementary To Question 272-15(3): Federal Government Understanding Of Northern Issues

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to hear that the Premier still feels encouraged by the signals that we receive from Ottawa. I think the Premier is well aware of the fact that I don’t feel as encouraged and I don’t feel as confident and I need to see some concrete evidence of their support for our agenda.

On the subject of leadership again, Mr. Speaker, I don’t want to see us lose anything by default. Again, a Member today referred to the divide-and-conquer approach. When the Premier goes to Ottawa I think very clearly, from today and from other communications, he will know the feelings of the elected leaders in this House. But as we all know, when we’re talking to Ottawa, we’re talking about the Northwest Territories. We are not the only elected leaders. So if not the Premier, then who has the ability or authority or the mandate to rally the troops, to get the aboriginal leadership together so that we have a unified voice in Ottawa? Does the Premier feel that, when he travels to Ottawa to speak to the Ministers and the Prime Minister and the various leaders, he can speak with the voice of not only the leaders in this House, but also the aboriginal leaders? Thank you.

Thank you, Mrs. Groenewegen. Mr. Handley.

Further Return To Question 272-15(3): Federal Government Understanding Of Northern Issues

Mr. Speaker, I really do appreciate the strong statements that were made here today, the clear statements from the Members. I think that tells me that I do have a good, clear, solid message and solid support from the Members in this House as we go forward to have discussions with the Prime Minister and some of the Ministers in Ottawa. I have had discussions with the aboriginal leaders, as well, and I have to respect their autonomy and their priorities, but I can tell you from a conference call I had a couple of weeks ago that I am confident that the majority of the leaders understand what it is we are doing and why we were doing it and do support our actions.

Mr. Speaker, I have to say that they may be at different points in terms of settling aboriginal claims or self-government discussions. I recognize that what they’re doing may not always be exactly the same as ours and they have the right to make independent decisions, but I am comfortable with the support we got at the last Circle of Northern Leaders and the support I’ve heard since. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Handley. Supplementary, Mrs. Groenewegen.

Supplementary To Question 272-15(3): Federal Government Understanding Of Northern Issues

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, in the last government, the federal Minister of Indian and Northern Affairs, the Honourable Robert Nault, committed to a process which encompassed the GNWT, the aboriginal governments and the federal government. The federal government subsequently hired David Peterson as a negotiator on behalf of the federal government, to which we were disappointed later to hear that he couldn’t talk money but he could talk devolution. That was a process that was in place. I think we made progress. Now we have a different Minister. What is the process now in place to continue that dialogue amongst northerners and government to government? Thank you.

Thank you, Mrs. Groenewegen. The honourable Premier, Mr. Handley.

Further Return To Question 272-15(3): Federal Government Understanding Of Northern Issues

Mr. Speaker, the Member is correct; we had a process in the last government and that process is continuing. I have talked to the Minister of DIAND, Minister Scott, about the Aboriginal Summit, about the Intergovernmental Forum, and he has confirmed to me that he wants to continue with those same discussions. The previous Minister of DIAND did appoint David Peterson to negotiate devolution, but he didn’t give them a mandate to negotiate resource revenue sharing. That mandate stayed with Finance Canada.

I am frustrated with Finance Canada because it’s been since the fall of 2003 that we gave them our position and we have never been able to sit down with them since. I’m also disappointed that DIAND and Finance Canada don’t seem to be able to get together and present one position as a government rather than two different positions as two federal departments. Those are issues that I’ve raised with the Prime Minister and I’ll continue to raise with him. I believe that if he really wants to see success with the northern strategy and see success with some of the major economic opportunities, he is going to have to find a way of getting those federal departments to sit down and speak with one voice. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Handley. Your final supplementary, Mrs. Groenewegen.

Supplementary To Question 272-15(3): Federal Government Understanding Of Northern Issues

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, again referring to the positive signals that the Premier refers to, the referencing of the Throne speech, the appointment of our federal MP as the Minister of Northern Development, the appointment of Anne McLellan as the chair of a special committee of parliamentarians on the pipeline, when the Premier goes to Ottawa this time, would he endeavour to have a commitment from people like Anne McLellan, our MP and other people who sit on that committee, to come to the Northwest Territories? I know it’s a signal he speaks of, but we have literally not met with or seen these people since their appointment. Would he commit to getting them here, bring them back to the North? Let’s talk to them. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Hear! Hear!

Thank you, Mrs. Groenewegen. The honourable Premier, Mr. Handley.

Further Return To Question 272-15(3): Federal Government Understanding Of Northern Issues

Mr. Speaker, I also agree that if we’re going to have a northern strategy then we have to have the people who are involved in the northern strategy come to the North and have meetings here, sit down with us as a Caucus and sit down with other northern leaders. I did speak to our MP, the Minister of Northern Development, today and we did have some general discussion about when she might be available to come to the North. I did not ask her specifically about some of the other Ministers, Minister Scott or Minister Efford, but I know that she is working on some agendas and she has told me that as soon as she can confirm some dates then she would like to come and meet with us, along with some of the other main federal Ministers who are involved on this file. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, my questions today are for the Premier. Back in March when I brought up the issue of a permanent trust fund being established in the Northwest Territories to benefit all northerners, the Premier stated at that time that he would have a discussion with Ottawa and with the Prime Minister in terms of the establishment of that trust fund. I’m just wondering, Mr. Speaker, if that conversation has taken place and maybe the Premier could let us know how that went. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay. The honourable Premier, Mr. Handley.

Return To Question 273-15(3): Permanent Trust Fund For Northerners

Mr. Speaker, as recently as this morning I raised that issue with our MP and only to float the idea with her that we have to have some benefit from resources. I’ve also talked to the Prime Minister about that, as well, saying look, one of our mines is half way through its life. We still haven’t done anything here. So yes, I have raised that. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Handley. Supplementary, Mr. Ramsay.

Supplementary To Question 273-15(3): Permanent Trust Fund For Northerners

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I know my colleague mentioned the fact that the Premier is on the verge of going to Ottawa next week, I do believe, and I’m just wondering if he can indeed bring up the issue of the trust fund again with the Prime Minister. I see the establishment of this trust fund as being beneficial to both the aboriginal leaders and governments in the Northwest Territories and our government, Mr. Speaker, because it should happen. We need to get that done. I’m just wondering if the government has any idea of what types of revenues we’re losing on a daily, monthly and yearly basis, even on the Norman Wells pipeline into northern Alberta. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay. The honourable Premier, Mr. Handley.

Further Return To Question 273-15(3): Permanent Trust Fund For Northerners

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Yes, I will raise that issue. I am leaving for Ottawa tomorrow morning. I have a meeting on…Sorry; I’m leaving on Saturday morning. Correction. I have a meeting with the Prime Minister, with Minister Blondin-Andrew, Minister Scott and others at 11:00 on Sunday to begin the discussions and I will raise this issue again for sure. Mr. Speaker, I don’t have an up-to-date number on resource revenues that we’re losing right now, but I can tell you that in the 2002-03 public accounts showed that DIAND’s Northern Affairs program collected $38.7 million in mining and oil and gas royalties and that was before prices had gone up and there’s been an increase in mining activity and an increase in oil activity since. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My question is for the Minister of Education, Culture and Employment, the Honourable Charles Dent. As I indicated in my Member’s statement regarding the $15 million available under the ASEP Program, there are two facilities that can be used in Tuktoyaktuk as a satellite Aurora College training. Mr. Speaker, I did have a chance to speak with the campus director in Inuvik earlier this month and she did show a lot of interest with regard to a satellite office in Tuk. My question to the Minister is will the Minister explore whether these funds may be allocated to training people in local communities in the Beaufort-Delta region in preparation for pipeline development? Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Pokiak. The Minister of Education, Culture and Employment, the Honourable Charles Dent.

Return To Question 274-15(3): Use Of Satellite Office Training Facilities