Debates of October 21, 2005 (day 15)

Thank you, Mr. Menicoche. The honourable Minister of Transportation, Mr. McLeod.

Return To Question 208-15(4): Liard River Ferry Services

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, yesterday we indicated to the House that the ferry was going to be shut down yesterday evening. That did happen. The contractor did park the ferry at 6:00 p.m. yesterday, so the service was discontinued. Operations are now suspended until further notice. We are considering the actions of the contractor to be a breach of contract and have notified the contractor, or are in the process of notifying the contractor, that it is so. We will look at ways to continue the service sometime early next week. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. McLeod. Supplementary, Mr. Menicoche.

Supplementary To Question 208-15(4): Liard River Ferry Services

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I'm glad to hear that the department is looking at some type of plan to resume service, but next week may even be too late, Mr. Speaker. I have been receiving phone calls from some families, that their propane tanks are at 10 percent. The way propane works, Mr. Speaker, is that at the 10 percent level, the tank is empty. There's a truck waiting on the other side. Can the Minister look at resuming services as soon as possible? Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Menicoche. Mr. McLeod.

Further Return To Question 208-15(4): Liard River Ferry Services

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Yes, Mr. Speaker, we have spent a lot of time looking at the different ways we can have the service back in operation, and the time frames around it. Early next week, Monday or Tuesday, is probably the earliest we're going to be able to get the service back in operation, if we can get it back in operation. That's all I can commit to at this point, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. McLeod. Supplementary, Mr. Menicoche.

Supplementary To Question 208-15(4): Liard River Ferry Services

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. As well, I have been receiving numerous enquiries about the ferry being actually shut right down. As the Minister is aware, we have freezing temperatures, and a big concern is that our ferry, our piece of equipment, will freeze up and be irreparably damaged, that it won't be running next week. I would just like to know what the department is doing about saving our piece of equipment from freeze-up. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Menicoche. Mr. McLeod.

Further Return To Question 208-15(4): Liard River Ferry Services

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, that is our concern, also. We had some of our people, our staff, go onto the boat last night, and we are taking the steps to ensure that this vessel is safe. It is an asset that is owned by the government, and we will do everything in our power to make sure that it's safe and the security is there. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. In my statement, I talked about the Colville Lake school and the situation that is happening there now. Mr. Speaker, last year Colville Lake historically graduated one student from that school, and they are expecting to graduate another student this year. Over the next three years, Colville Lake is expecting to graduate three students, and will have about 15 new students coming into that school. Mr. Speaker, the project has slipped many times in the Department of Education, in reducing its scope. I want to ask the Minister of Education, Culture and Employment, what's the rationale the department uses in changing this crucial project from adding on to the existing school, to now having portable classrooms delivered in Colville Lake? Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Yakeleya. The honourable Minister of Education, Culture and Employment, Mr. Dent.

Return To Question 209-15(4): Colville Lake School Expansion

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. To the credit of the families in the community, there has been tremendous growth in the population in that school. In the year 2000, there were only 19 students using the school, when we first started talking about an addition. But as the Member has pointed out, there is some pressure to move very quickly on this issue, and a plan to add to that school would probably be time consuming and relatively expensive, because of the nature of that school. It's not a regular shaped building, Mr. Speaker. It's a log structure, which is really quite striking, and has a number of different sides. I can't remember; I think it's six different sides. So it would be difficult to add to.

In order to accomplish the desire to get the space in the community as quickly as possible, the decision has been made to bring in a modular structure. We will be looking at ways to attach the two buildings together, so that the children don't have to go outside.

Thank you, Mr. Dent. Supplementary, Mr. Yakeleya.

Supplementary To Question 209-15(4): Colville Lake School Expansion

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, because of the number of students we have in the gallery, I want to make a quick reference. Of these 60 students, if we took only 20 out, and we put all those students in one building, from kindergarten to Grade 12, that's what the children in Colville Lake are faced with. In this time and age, Mr. Speaker, that's just totally unacceptable. So I would like to ask the Minister, can he state, for the people of Colville Lake, that their school, where they send their children each school day of the year, does the school in Colville Lake meet the current standards set out by his department? Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Yakeleya. Mr. Dent.

Further Return To Question 209-15(4): Colville Lake School Expansion

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I'm not sure. I can't answer that question. I would doubt that it does. Having seen the school myself, I would expect that that probably doesn't meet our current standards, and we are moving to put the addition in as quickly as we can.

Thank you, Mr. Dent. Supplementary, Mr. Yakeleya.

Supplementary To Question 209-15(4): Colville Lake School Expansion

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, that's totally unacceptable from the Minister of Education to have that type of response to the people of Colville Lake who send their children to school each day, that has a honey bucket that they're using in their school -- the kids are overflowing in that building -- to say he's not sure of the standards that are set out by his department. So, Mr. Speaker, I would like to ask the Minister if he can tell this Assembly whether or not his department considers the use of honey buckets in the GNWT educational facilities meets the capital standard that his department has formulated. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Yakeleya. Mr. Dent.

Further Return To Question 209-15(4): Colville Lake School Expansion

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the community of Colville Lake started up as a community where the people said they wanted a traditional community. They, still today, don't have a water plant, so we don't have an ability to put in water and plumbing in that community. We understand that that will be installed by MACA within the next year. The modular classroom that we're going to add to the facility there will accommodate modern facilities to take advantage of the water plant that's being installed in the community.

Thank you, Mr. Dent. Final supplementary, Mr. Yakeleya.

Supplementary To Question 209-15(4): Colville Lake School Expansion

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I have always said that the community of Colville Lake is a long way out of Yellowknife; it's far away. So sometimes it's out of sight, out of mind, for the people in Colville Lake. If they want to maintain a traditional economy, I support them 100 percent. For a traditional lifestyle, I support them 100 percent. But it's unacceptable, in this day and age, when we have education facilities such as are built in and around the Northwest Territories, that we cannot fix Colville Lake in terms of the use of the honey bucket. Can the Minister tell us, short of moving the honey bucket to an outhouse in the community, what is the department doing to alleviate the space in the Colville Lake school, to advance an affordable school this year in Colville Lake on the ice road? That would certainly help the people in Colville Lake. Can the Minister inform me? Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Yakeleya. Mr. Dent.

Further Return To Question 209-15(4): Colville Lake School Expansion

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I'm not sure that we can meet the timeline that the Member has asked for, in terms of getting it on the ice road this year. The department will be meeting with the DEA, and with the residents of Colville Lake, to talk about how we can plan to bring the two structures into one unit. We will do our best to advance things as much as we can, but I can't guarantee that we'll make it on the ice road this winter. We will certainly make it a priority to look at whether we can do that, though. Thanks.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, further to my Member's statement today, I would like to pose my questions to the Minister responsible for the Housing Corporation. Mr. Speaker, yesterday, I made a statement about the fact that there are a lot of small businesses and northern businesses who go through the ups and downs of running a business in the North, where everything is high. But they stick around, they pay their taxes, they employ our people, they train our people, in the hopes of taking advantage of an economic boom. One of the things that's going to happen when the pipeline comes is that there's going to be a real potential for building houses. The Minister of Housing is not only not looking at the North, but he won't even meet with people who come to tell him about a proposal. Could I ask the Minister why he refuses to meet with northern contractors who could possibly do the job? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Ms. Lee. The honourable Minister responsible for the NWT Housing Corporation, Mr. Krutko.

Return To Question 210-15(4): Using Northern Construction Firms

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I have met with people in the private sector; I've toured different plants in the territory; and I've talked to a lot of people in the private sector about coming forward with a proposal that's a good business case and has financially sound information in it, so that we can proceed on pilot projects. I have not received anything from any of these companies to date, yet they're asking for $3 million to make an investment from this government, with no documentation to back that up. So unless we get that documentation, we will continue to talk with other interested parties. I know that I mentioned that there are interested parties from Hay River talking to companies down south to look at the possibility of developing portable facilities in the North, so that they can construct these facilities in the North, and it has to be accessible to the transportation links in the North with regard to the pipeline project. The effect of that project will be up and down the valley, and it has to be assured that those communities up and down the valley have access to these programs. That's the whole emphasis behind this program.

Again, Mr. Speaker, I have been talking to those individuals. I have toured their plant. Again, we're waiting for correspondence to come back from the different parties. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Krutko. Supplementary, Ms. Lee.

Supplementary To Question 210-15(4): Using Northern Construction Firms

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I have to wonder why the government thinks it would be a great idea to invest $26 million in an ATCO/Novel project in Calgary, but thinks that that's an unreasonable thing to consider a $3 million investment. Mr. Speaker, I would like to know, from the Minister, in exactly what way he communicated to these companies that he's looking for a proposal. Was it a letter? In exactly what form did he invite these people to submit a proposal? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Ms. Lee. Mr. Krutko.

Further Return To Question 210-15(4): Using Northern Construction Firms

Mr. Speaker, just to clear up the Member's issue regarding the $20 million, we have made no investment in this project. The only time there will be a financial investment will be at the end of the pipeline project, when we will consider looking at acquiring these facilities. So there is no investment by way of dollars switching hands here. It is not going to happen for the next five years.

Right now, it's basically a concept that's being put forward, which is unique in regard to the possibility of having a way of solving our housing crises up and down the valley. I think, in order to do that, we have to think outside the box of how we are going to meet our housing crises in the Northwest Territories, where we have communities with almost 80 percent core need for housing, and in most aboriginal communities, which consists of 20 of our communities in the North which are aboriginal, we exceed 35 percent core need. We have to solve that problem, and we can't do it the way we're delivering programs today where we're building 50 houses a year. We have to have a way of dealing with the crises that we face going forward.

As I mentioned, in four years, if we continue to deliver the program as we are, we're going to need 4,000 houses in the next 10 years. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Krutko. Supplementary, Ms. Lee.

Supplementary To Question 210-15(4): Using Northern Construction Firms

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I don't appreciate the Minister burning up question period time without answering my questions. Mr. Speaker, my question is very specific. There are builders all over the North -- in Hay River, in Yellowknife, and other places -- and let me just talk about the one in Yellowknife who is willing to use people who are in our correctional centre. He is willing to train people. He has built houses. I want to know, very specifically, how and when is the last time he talked to the builder in Kam Lake about how he could get involved in this project. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Ms. Lee. Mr. Krutko.

Further Return To Question 210-15(4): Using Northern Construction Firms

Mr. Speaker, again, I met with the individual a year ago. Basically, at that time, we asked him to put a proposal forward. It has to have a good business case behind it, and it has to be financially sound. That was the offer given at that time. To date, we have not received any correspondence regarding that proposal. So unless we have a proposal, we don't really have anything to talk about. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Krutko. Final supplementary, Ms. Lee.

Supplementary To Question 210-15(4): Using Northern Construction Firms

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I was there in the tour with the Minister. I recall a proposal, but I may be wrong, so I'd like to ask the Minister, when is the last time, or in what form -- in a letter, e-mail, phone call -- did he communicate to that business in Kam Lake, that we have this investment opportunity in the government, and what can you do, is submit a proposal. I want to know when and how. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Ms. Lee. Mr. Krutko.

Further Return To Question 210-15(4): Using Northern Construction Firms

Mr. Speaker, we have staff in our department who deal with the business community in regard to proposals, tenders and whatnot. Right now, we are talking to the individual about the project that we're doing in Norman Wells, with the Metis local in Norman Wells, through the development corporation, and the company she's talking about is part of that proposal. Our people have been talking to them regarding that proposal. So it's not that we haven't been talking to them. If anything, we've been talking with them in the last two weeks, making sure that that proposal is sound and going forward with the partnership that was formed in that case.

Again, there have been ongoing discussions between my office and the individual she's talking about, in ensuring that whatever he does, it has to be on paper, it has to have a good business case, and it has to be financially sound. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. If I may just say I'd like to thank the students for coming today so they can see oral question period, see history being made, and they're part of it today by being in the gallery.

Mr. Speaker, hoping for the best isn't good or sound fiscal policy. I spoke earlier, in my Member's statement, about the $296 million in corporate tax overpayment that we received from the Government of Canada. We can no longer dodge this, or keep pushing it away, or even ignoring it. So my question to the Minister of Finance is, will the Minister have his officials look into fiscal policy that would require the GNWT, when they become aware of an overpayment, to either set it aside, or return it promptly? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Hawkins. The honourable Minister of Finance, Mr. Roland.

Return To Question 211-15(4): Corporate Tax Overpayment

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like to thank the Member for that awe-inspiring question.

---Laughter

Mr. Speaker, this issue is not a new one. We've been trying to deal with this, and how we can deal with our federal counterparts around this issue. We have looked at a number of issues around our fiscal policy, and what we've looked at putting forward is a fiscal responsibility policy that would look at the overall fiscal situation of the government, our ability to borrow and finance that borrowing.

The issue of the overpayment itself, as the Member stated, was a decision made by a previous government. They were aware of the overpayment, and also aware of the payment plan that the federal government has in place, which is basically a three-year program once it has been identified. That has been flowing since the overpayment has been recognized. We are, in fact, coming up to the final year, where, in the next budget cycle, that overpayment has come due. We can look at ways of doing things differently. The previous government had looked at it as an interest-free loan and were aware that it would have to be paid back. In fact, we have a fair bit of that cash sitting, waiting to be repaid. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Roland. Supplementary, Mr. Hawkins.

Supplementary To Question 211-15(4): Corporate Tax Overpayment

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. To put it in perspective, almost $300 million is approximately 30 percent of this government's budget. By redrafting a fiscal management policy, still doesn't speak to the fact that we're spending money that does not belong to this government. So, Mr. Speaker, if the Minister will not commit to a fiscal policy that stipulates that overpayments be set aside and returned promptly, will the Minister consider a fiscal policy which stipulates that if any overpayment is to be treated as an interest-free loan, as he just pointed out, that money must be specifically voted on in this House by way of a formal motion? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Hawkins. Mr. Roland.

Further Return To Question 211-15(4): Corporate Tax Overpayment

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, all funds that come through this government, through the Department of Finance, are voted on in the House. When we present our budget, we present the corporate taxes we receive, our own source revenues, and other fees and disbursements from the federal government. So it does come to this House; it is voted on, and how we spend that money then is also voted on. So it is taken into account. It's not like we have a separate account sitting on the side that nobody is aware of. All Members are made aware of our fiscal situation, the revenues we have coming in, on that basis.

We have, Mr. Speaker, looked as if we had decided to repay it or use it as an interest-free loan, as had been done in the past. We've looked at our numbers. In fact, our numbers for our fiscal situation, the bottom line, so to speak, would change by quite a small number. Thank you.