Debates of October 25, 2004 (day 27)

Topics
Statements
Speaker: MR. SPEAKER

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay. Mr. Dent.

Further Return To Question 301-15-15(3): Wrongful Dismissal Suits In Corrections Services

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. As I said last week in response to Ms. Lee, there are a number of new staff who have been hired. There is a five week training program for 12 new correctional officers that started on October 4th. At the end of the five weeks, those people will move into positions that will help to alleviate the situation. The issue of the numbers of staff, as I also said to Ms. Lee last week, the North Slave Correctional Centre has a bigger staff complement than did the old centre and staffing up has required some work. In spite of that increase, there has been a reduction in the numbers of vacant spots, so that we are at seven vacancies as of September 30th. The moves are quite significant to try and deal with the issue of overtime and the staff complement. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Question 302-15(3): Occupancy Of Market Housing Units

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like to direct a question to the Minister responsible for the Housing Corporation and it’s in follow up to my colleague, Ms. Lee’s question about the market housing initiative. My understanding, Mr. Speaker, is that one of the reasons this program was undertaken was to, almost on an emergency basis, provide communities that had housing shortages with units for essential public services workers; teachers and nurses were especially highlighted. I would like to ask the Minister of the units that are now on site in various communities, how many of these are indeed occupied by those intended tenants, the essential tenants, such as teachers and nurses? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Speaker: MR. SPEAKER

Thank you, Mr. Braden. The honourable Minister responsible for the Housing Corporation, Mr. Krutko.

Return To Question 302-15(3): Occupancy Of Market Housing Units

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, right now I can’t state exactly how many units we do have occupied, but we have received some 14 applicants for leasing those units, for professions in the Northwest Territories, so we have received these applications from 14 individuals. But right now until the project is totally completed and we have the units occupied, we can’t say what it is. If the Member wants, I can get him that information.

Speaker: MR. SPEAKER

Thank you, Mr. Krutko. Supplementary, Mr. Braden.

Supplementary To Question 302-15(3): Occupancy Of Market Housing Units

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Of course, I would welcome that information. I would like to ask further though, the corporation undertook at a considerable urgency and expense to put these units on site. Did it really know which communities required these units and whether the intended audience was indeed going to be satisfied with the services? Did the Housing Corporation really do its homework before engaging in this program? Thank you.

Speaker: MR. SPEAKER

Thank you, Mr. Braden. Mr. Krutko.

Further Return To Question 302-15(3): Occupancy Of Market Housing Units

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, there was a call that went out to all agencies and different departments to see where there was a problem with regard to accommodating professionals in the different communities. The communities that were picked were Tulita, Fort Good Hope, Norman Wells, Lutselk'e, Fort Resolution, Fort Providence and Fort Liard. Those were the communities that seemed to have the most systemic problem of attracting teachers because of the problems with accommodations. Those are communities that were picked for the first round, and there were other communities identified for the second phase which are for the upcoming 22. So these communities were picked on the basis of where the most need was, and these communities that were picked were mostly on the barge transportation system so the units were barged into those particular communities this summer. The other ones were supposed to be sent to those other communities through the different road systems. Thank you.

Speaker: MR. SPEAKER

Thank you, Mr. Krutko. Supplementary, Mr. Braden.

Supplementary To Question 302-15(3): Occupancy Of Market Housing Units

Mr. Speaker, I find it a little unusual that the Minister can’t say at this point -- it is winter, it’s freeze-up, those units should be in place and occupied by now -- how many of them are indeed occupied by the people that they were supposed to serve. In light of that, how can the Housing Corporation continue with installing yet more units if we don’t even know if the first have reached the intended audience? Why are we proceeding? Thank you.

Speaker: MR. SPEAKER

Thank you, Mr. Braden. Mr. Krutko.

Further Return To Question 302-15(3): Occupancy Of Market Housing Units

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, as I stated to the earlier question, we are going to do an evaluation of the project once the project is completed. The project has not been completed. Some of the units just arrived in Tulita just a couple of weeks ago. They were on the last barge. So until we actually have all the projects completed, the sites are being developed, the units are open for business, then we will have a better picture of how this program is working or not. Then through the reporting mechanism, we will look at what the problems were and avoid those problems from happening in the future.

Speaker: MR. SPEAKER

Thank you, Mr. Krutko. Supplementary, Mr. Braden.

Supplementary To Question 302-15(3): Occupancy Of Market Housing Units

Mr. Speaker, there was a news account a few weeks ago now, about I believe it was in one of the South Slave communities that a teacher who should have been one of the target tenants had to decline the unit because he found it unaffordable by the time it was installed and in place in that given community. This is the kind of thing that indicates to me that the Housing Corporation perhaps hadn’t done its homework. This is what I’m trying to determine, Mr. Speaker, is that so far we don’t have too much of an indication that the initial part of the program is working. Why should we continue with the other part? Thank you.

---Applause

Speaker: MR. SPEAKER

Thank you, Mr. Braden. Mr. Krutko.

Further Return To Question 302-15(3): Occupancy Of Market Housing Units

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I think that we have to clarify the notion. This is not subsidised housing like the government housing program in the past. This is market housing that was put forth as a business venture from the Housing Corporation. We are there to recoup the investment that we made by way of the rents that we would be charging. Also, another point I would like to make is that the rates that we are setting for these units are less than what we are charging to clients in social housing. So on one hand you are saying that we are charging too much, but on the other hand is it fair to the residents of those communities that the rates that we are charging are less than the going market rate right here in Yellowknife?

Speaker: MR. SPEAKER

Thank you, Mr. Krutko. Time for question period has expired. Mr. Braden, I will allow you one final supplementary.

Supplementary To Question 302-15(3): Occupancy Of Market Housing Units

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The Minister’s explanation is, I think, off track here. The costs, regardless of how they compare with social housing or public housing, are still deemed to be unaffordable by some of these tenants. So I would again appeal to the Minister to give us a good explanation as to why we aren’t checking or rearranging or realigning this program now, so that it does indeed help those communities that really need it. Thank you.

Speaker: MR. SPEAKER

Thank you, Mr. Braden. Mr. Krutko.

Further Return To Question 302-15(3): Occupancy Of Market Housing Units

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, in regards to the way the price came about and exactly who the client is, I would like to state again this is not staff housing on behalf of the Government of the Northwest Territories. This is a business decision that was made by the corporation to go into those communities where the business sector does not want to make that investment. We made the investment, but we will not go back into staff housing until that decision is made by the Government of the Northwest Territories.

Basically, the whole idea of the rates is based on an arrangement between the employees of the Government of the Northwest Territories and their unions where they have a northern allowance which is built into their salary base, which again is there for the purpose of looking for accommodations. So there is that arrangement which is built into their wages. But, again, I think that, until this project is completed and we do the evaluation, then we can see exactly if this program is working or not. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Written Question 49-15(3): Statistics At The North Slave Correctional Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My questions are for the Minister of Justice:

What is the number of cases involving staff inmate confrontation and assaults in the last three years at North Slave Correctional Centre?

How many employees at the North Slave Correctional Centre are currently on transfer assignments, special leave, sick leave or other leave, for how long and when are they expected to return?

What is the staff complement required for the new North Slave Correctional Centre in comparison to the old facility, and is it being met?

Written Question 50-15(3): Supervisory Policy

Fuel Spill At Jackfish Lake Power Plant

My question is for the Minister responsible for the NWT Power Corporation:

Please provide a report on exactly what happened at the Jackfish power plant with the recent diesel spill, including the answers to: when did it happen, how did it happen, what was the cause and what has been done to make sure it doesn’t happen again?

What is the number of the full staff complement at the plant over the last five years?

How many overtime hours were worked at the plant by how many employees over the last five years?

What was done by the corporation to address any morale problem arising from the reduction in staff complement and too much overtime?

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Written Question 52-15(3): Hunting Practices And Charges

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My question is for the Minister of Resources, Wildlife and Economic Development, with reference to my Member's statement about bad hunting practices and meat wastage in the NWT:

How many infractions have taken place since the Akaitcho incident in 2002?

How many have resulted in official charges being laid or fines imposed?

What changes in the Wildlife Act will help to alleviate or deter this type of practice in the NWT?

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Written Question 53-15(3): Statistics About Smoking

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My question is to the Minister of Health and Social Services. In light of the high percentage of smokers and smoking amongst our youth in the NWT, please provide:

The number of people in the Sahtu region who acknowledge they smoke.

A breakdown of smokers by age, gender and youth.

The cost of cigarettes in the Sahtu communities.

What are the actual health costs to the NWT associated with smoking?

In the Sahtu region, who works with the department on smoking education programs?

Can the department provide us with the types of financial support to combat smoking in the NWT?

Thank you.

Tabled Document 83-15(3): NWT Power Corporation 2003-2004 Annual Report

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I wish to table the following document entitled NWT Power Corporation, 2003-2004 Annual Report. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Tabled Document 84-15(3): Community Driven Solutions: NWT Housing Corporation 2003-2004 Annual Report

Mr. Speaker, I wish to table the following document entitled Community Driven Solutions: NWT Housing Corporation 2003-2004 Annual Report. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Motion 20-15(3): Affordable Electric Power

Mr. Speaker, I give notice that, on Wednesday, October 27th, 2004, I will move the following motion:

Now therefore I move, seconded by the honourable Member for Nahendeh, that the government review the territorial Power Subsidy Program immediately to ensure that consumers in communities which rely on diesel power do not suffer any further hardship as a result of increasing oil prices;

And further that the government direct the Northwest Territories Power Corporation to provide information on options respecting current community-based rate structure in light of practices in other jurisdictions and general principles of fairness.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

ITEM 19: CONSIDERATION IN COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE OF BILLS AND OTHER MATTERS

I will call Committee of the Whole to order. We just had the Speaker give us a list of the matters before Committee of the Whole today. What is the wish of the committee? Mr. Menicoche.

Yes, Madam Chair. Committee wishes to consider Bill 13, Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 2004-2005.

Thank you. Is the committee agreed?

Agreed.

Agreed. Thank you. Before we proceed with that, we will take a short break.

---SHORT RECESS

Okay. I am going to call Committee of the Whole back to order. We are dealing with Bill 13, Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 2004-2005. We are on page 18. We are on the Department of Justice. I will ask Mr. Dent, who will be acting in Mr. Roland’s absence today, if he would like to call witnesses.

Yes, please, Madam Chair.

Thank you, Mr. Dent. Does the committee agree?

Agreed.

Agreed. Thank you. Then I will ask the Sergeant-at-Arms if he would escort in the witness, and then we will look at page 18, Justice, capital investment expenditures.

Thank you. Welcome, Mr. Lew Voytilla, to the Committee of the Whole meeting. Public legal services, special warrants, $115,000. Ms. Lee.

Thank you, Madam Chair. Madam Chair, I have some more questions on this item. First of all, I have questions about the use of special warrant. My last question last Friday dealt with this issue because my understanding of special warrant is an expenditure of something that is of an emergency nature. Given that this premise that the government has leased for this legal aid office is not in any way being renovated or opening, and given that we just had session in June…

I only have 10 minutes so I don’t want to use up all the time, but from a commonsense point of view, we understand when there is an oil tank that is deteriorating that is causing environmental disaster consequences and Sachs Harbour might warrant a special warrant expenditure. A roof collapsing in Inuvik warrants a special warrant expenditure, but a second legal aid office in a shopping mall somehow doesn’t seem to be something that should fit under this. So that is one of my concerns.

Another one has to do with sole source contract. Minister Roland and I have been going back and forth in the House about this as well as outside of here. The government seems to be arguing that when two proposals came in on time but did not meet the criteria and the third one didn’t meet the time criteria, but when it was found that that business might have some space to offer, under the government’s guidelines it is completely appropriate for the government to get into a sole source contract negotiation with this business without having to either re-advertise or to go wider yet to figure out if there might be other suitable offices.

I have a problem with that sort of sole source contract. Going beyond that, if you go to any other legal aid clinic in many other places in the country, it is usually rented out of law offices. It is usually located where the people are. I don’t know. I think this government has failed in looking at some other options that could have actually helped NGOs in paying for their operating costs. I have a problem with where this is located because I don’t think it will guarantee the privacy of the clients. In fact, Minister Roland’s information to the Members has stated very clearly that the client, the legal aid office, had a question about the privacy issue. In fact, it was agreed that the landlord would agree to give the windows a frosting treatment. I have a problem with the government spending money to lease somewhere where the storefront office glass is obviously a problem and that government is willing to spend extra money to give window treatment to that when I am sure there would have been other places that they could have looked into. I have lots of questions. I am going to go item by item to the Minister.

Lastly, on this opening statement, I want to say that it has been a long time since the legal aid budget got any kind of increase. This is the first time I have seen any significant amount of increase in this budget. I want to commend the Minister of Justice for that. I think it is very unfortunate that we seem to be on our way to blowing the budget on renovation and spending money where we wouldn’t have had to if there were some more thought put into this. My first question, Madam Chair, is what are the rules for special warrant generally? I don’t want an hour’s treatise on that, but what are the main requirements for special warrant, and how does this expenditure meet that requirement? Thank you.

Thank you, Ms. Lee. Mr. Dent.

Thank you, Madam Chair. Section 33(1) of the Financial Administration Act outlines the rules for a special warrant. First of all, the expenditure has to be urgently required. The expenditure has to be in the public interest, and there is no or insufficient appropriation to incur the expenditure within the department. I guess, Madam Chair, in the best of all worlds, it wouldn’t have come back as a special warrant, but, when I went to FMB in May, I went in with two parts to a submission. One part was for the operations of the legal aid office. The other part was for the cost of leasehold improvements. The FMB accepted the submission for the operation and asked that I provide further detail on the costs to fix up the space. So that is why, in the June session, we were able to see the monies, the $266,000, which was approved, and that supplementary appropriation came through without it being a special warrant. The timetable was that we were going to try and have the operation open by this fall. In order to do that, it meant that we had to move quickly to find the space. Because the FMB couldn’t consider the revised estimate for the cost of capital improvements before the end of the June session, when I went back to FMB in the summer, it was accepted as a special warrant so that Public Works could advertise an RFP for the space.

It wouldn’t be proper for Public Works to be out soliciting proposals for space without the money having been approved for expenditure. So it was felt that it was essential to have the monies approved so that we could seek some space and know that we were going to be able to actually spend the money to fit it up. Thank you, Madam Chair.