Debates of October 26, 2004 (day 28)

Thank you, Ms. Lee. Mr. Krutko.

Further Return To Question 307-15(3): Market Housing Initiative

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, in the reality of the Northwest Territories, the whole problem of logistics is a day-to-day problem. You have to depend on other sectors of our economy to be able to carry out our responsibilities. The timelines that we are facing are almost on track to what was projected out there. The Housing Corporation depends on sub-contractors and other contractors to carry out our responsibility of fulfilling our programs. It was the people on the other side of the House that raised the concern that we waived the BIP because of this contract. We reinstated the BIP so that we can get a maximum benefit to local communities, local contractors or transportation companies to ensure that 50 percent of this capital expense would stay in the Northwest Territories. That was the other side that asked us to do that. Because we did that, we had to put this work out to contracts, but the contracts were not fulfilled until almost July. In order to meet this deadline, it caused the project to move ahead. So that, Mr. Speaker, is the reason for these logistical changes, but again, to satisfy the opposition, the people on the other side of the House, the BIP was reinstated to ensure that we get the maximum benefit for northerners in our communities and the money stays in our communities. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Krutko. Your supplementary, Ms. Lee.

Supplementary To Question 307-15(3): Market Housing Initiative

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. It never fails to amaze me how we get these morsels of information in the midst of question and answer period, because it never ever was told to me that BIP was reinstated. How nice to find this out as a surprise at the end of October. Anyway, Mr. Speaker, I think there are ample reasons to suggest that the Minister should really look into other modes of providing this housing, because this mobile home idea is not working. If they can’t even make it off the barge, I really think it is about time the Minister revisit this. Will the Minister revisit this? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Ms. Lee. Mr. Krutko.

Further Return To Question 307-15(3): Market Housing Initiative

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, as I said yesterday, we have committed to do a report back to the House in regards to ensuring that we analyze the efforts to date and that we will put forward a report and carry on. We still have other communities that have the same problem. There is a market challenge in other communities in the Northwest Territories. These are some of the communities. There are still communities out there that have this problem of accommodating professionals in our communities. So it is a problem that won’t go away simply by removing this program, but we will assess the program. We will come forward with recommendations on where we go from here. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Krutko. Your final supplementary, Ms. Lee.

Supplementary To Question 307-15(3): Market Housing Initiative

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Perhaps the Minister was not privy to this, but, in the midst of this debate in March, there were at least two NWT business people who do this for a living, who build up trailers. They could do it with their eyes closed. They were not even allowed to bid because the department insisted on going with the Edmonton firm. Would the Minister now look at the local businesses that can do the job and deliver them on time? Would he do that, Mr. Speaker?

Thank you, Ms. Lee. Mr. Krutko.

Further Return To Question 307-15(3): Market Housing Initiative

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I believe we do have people out there that can do the job. Again, the bottom line is affordability. These houses have to be affordable at the end of the day so that people who rent them are able to afford to pay the rent. That is the other thing we are hearing in the House. They can’t afford to rent them. But, it has to be affordable so that these people are able to acquire them. So I am open to a bid process and go with the lowest bid that comes in. Again, it has to be affordable. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, my question today is to the Minister of Education, Culture and Employment in regards to the crisis issues in the Sahtu, and specifically in the Tulita community school. We have teachers staying in hotels. I want to ask the Minister of Education, Culture and Employment what is he doing with his partners in the Sahtu Divisional Education Council to work with the teachers to see that this issue is resolved and that this won’t happen again in the future? Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Yakeleya. Minister of Education, Culture and Employment, the Honourable Mr. Dent.

Return To Question 308-15(3): Housing For Sahtu Teachers

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, my colleague, Minister Krutko, advises me that three units will be available for occupancy in Tulita on October 27th, so within the next day or so they should be available and the teachers have applied for residence in those units. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Dent. Supplementary, Mr. Yakeleya.

Supplementary To Question 308-15(3): Housing For Sahtu Teachers

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the question I am asking the Minister again is what is his department, along with the Sahtu Divisional Education Council, doing in terms of what kind of strategies they have for this issue not popping up in, say, Fort Good Hope or Deline next year? Are they looking at common strategies to work with the teachers at the divisional education authorities in communities to keep our teachers here so this issue won’t be raised again next year? Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Yakeleya. Mr. Dent.

Further Return To Question 308-15(3): Housing For Sahtu Teachers

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I have been talking with my colleague, Mr. Krutko, on numerous occasions, as recently as the lunch hour today, about the need for us to coordinate the plan for next year’s market housing so that we can find out from the DEAs and DECs where the demand is and just exactly what the demand is for, whether it is two or three bedroom units, but to make sure that we are responsive with what the expected demand is. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Dent. Supplementary, Mr. Yakeleya.

Supplementary To Question 308-15(3): Housing For Sahtu Teachers

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I would like to thank the Minister. When will this strategy or discussion come to the House or come into the Sahtu region for communities to discuss this amongst themselves to see that the teachers don’t have to go through this again next year? Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Yakeleya. Mr. Dent.

Further Return To Question 308-15(3): Housing For Sahtu Teachers

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I will be meeting in a couple of weeks with the board chairs for the regions. This is one of the topics that we will discuss at that time. Until the review that the Minister responsible for the Housing Corporation is talking about is completed, we won’t be advancing very far on this, but I will advise the chairs that we are interested in talking some about it after the review is complete. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Dent. Final supplementary, Mr. Yakeleya.

Supplementary To Question 308-15(3): Housing For Sahtu Teachers

Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, would the Minister also look at considering the sensitive issue, I know the previous government has made a decision not to get back into the House on this issue with the education or teachers, so would the Minister give some consideration to that issue? Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Yakeleya. Mr. Dent.

Further Return To Question 308-15(3): Housing For Sahtu Teachers

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. No, we have no intention of getting back into employee housing. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, my questions today are for the Minister of Education, Culture and Employment, the Honourable Charles Dent. I outlined a story for him of a constituent of mine who has gone back to school and is faced with a $5,500 bill that is hanging over their head. I am just wondering what Education, Culture and Employment is going to do to try to address some of the students who face this situation that they didn’t quite meet the 60 percent mark, but they are still in school. They can understand that they are under suspension, but why don’t we call the dogs off on the $5,500 and allow them to continue their education? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay. Minister of Education, Culture and Employment, Mr. Dent.

Return To Question 309-15(3): Fairness In Payment Of Student Financial Assistance

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, when a person is enrolled in an approved institution, they are not required to make payments on the student loan as long as they are considered full-time under the typical requirements of the NWT Student Financial Assistance program. So if a person makes arrangements to continue on their schooling at their own expense, they would not be expected to repay the student loans, for instance, in the subsequent year. If, however, they haven’t made arrangements quickly enough, then the debt has been transferred to FMBS. Then Education, Culture and Employment can no longer have anything to do with the debt to this government because the debt has been transferred from Education, Culture and Employment to FMBS. Arrangements have to be made then with FMBS. I know that FMBS is prepared to consider token payments as long as the will is there to make good on the loan in the long run and there is a demonstration of good faith by the person who owes the money so that they are making what is $25 or $50 payments each month towards their outstanding debt. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Dent. Supplementary, Mr. Ramsay.

Supplementary To Question 309-15(3): Fairness In Payment Of Student Financial Assistance

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Yes, Mr. Speaker, in this instance, the debt has gone over to the FMBS and they are sending notices in the mail requesting payment of some kind. Even $50 a month for a student is a lot to pay, Mr. Speaker. I am just wondering again, FMBS and ECE not really working together. These are real people, Mr. Speaker, with real problems and each situation is unique. I think, as a department, we’re trying to send our students out to get an education and come back and be productive citizens and we need to find a way to be flexible. I know we have rules, I know we have policies that are in place, but we need some flexibility. I’m just wondering if the Minister is -- and I know there have been other cases like this, this is not a new issue -- prepared to have some flexibility in these situations. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay. Mr. Dent.

Further Return To Question 309-15(3): Fairness In Payment Of Student Financial Assistance

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. As I indicated, in the policy, it is stated quite clearly on page 16 of the Student Financial Assistance Student Guide that if a student comes to SFA, says they’ve gone back to school full time, can illustrate by filling in form D, that the institution agrees they are enrolled in a full-time program, their loan is put on hold. Now, if that hasn’t happened, if the student doesn’t work with the department on a timely basis and the debt gets to be somewhat old, it gets transferred over. It’s quite clearly set out in the program guides that this is liable to happen. So students have to be aware that this is a potential and as long as they’re working with SFA, they can keep things within Education, Culture and Employment. I believe that right now the system does accommodate individuals who are prepared to work with us. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Dent. Supplementary, Mr. Ramsay.

Supplementary To Question 309-15(3): Fairness In Payment Of Student Financial Assistance

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I’m just wondering, if a student who is at university or college in the South and on their own ticket, paying their own way because they’re on suspension, having the FMBS debt of $5,500 hanging over their head, if they come back to the North next summer and work and then go back to school and they’re reinstated in SFA, what happens to that $5,500 debt that FMBS has over their head. Does ECE go back to FMBS and get that back? How is that all worked out if one doesn’t really know what the other one is doing? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay. Mr. Dent.

Further Return To Question 309-15(3): Fairness In Payment Of Student Financial Assistance

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. No, once you owe the money, you owe the money. So that money is not going to be forgiven, it will have to be recovered. FMBS is not going to forgive it either. The student will have to pay that money back because it represents monies that were paid out that they should not have received in the first place. So that becomes a debt to the government which is going to be recovered. FMBS has demonstrated on numerous occasions that they are willing to be very flexible with people who owe this government money when they’re involved in programs to better themselves or making productive choices. So I’m quite confident that FMBS would continue the arrangements as long as the person remains a student. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Dent. Your final supplementary, Mr. Ramsay.

Supplementary To Question 309-15(3): Fairness In Payment Of Student Financial Assistance

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. So, Mr. Speaker, what the Minister is saying is if the student goes back to school -- and let’s say they become a lawyer or a doctor -- this $5,500 is never remissible because they missed a deadline. They’ve gone to school here their entire life, K to 12, and they come back to the Northwest Territories as a lawyer or doctor and the government won’t remiss a $5,500 payment because they missed a date. Is that what the Minister is saying? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay. Mr. Dent.

Further Return To Question 309-15(3): Fairness In Payment Of Student Financial Assistance

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. No, I wasn’t saying that at all. I’ll say again what I said. That $5,500, the way the Member laid it out, was paid to someone who should not have collected the money; therefore, they owe that money back no matter what. They would never qualify for remission even if they had contacted SFA to have it put on hold for a while. It would always have had to be paid back. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. In my Member’s statement today, I referred to the recent decision of the Legal Services Board to no longer attend Justice of the Peace Court in the Beaufort-Delta. I am concerned that there are circumstances where a person should be represented by a lawyer in JP court. Can the Minister tell me whether a person appearing before a JP for a bail hearing would be eligible for a Legal Aid lawyer? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Pokiak. The Minister of Justice, the Honourable Mr. Dent.

Return To Question 310-15(3): Eligibility For Legal Aid Before A Justice Of The Peace

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The answer is absolutely. The role of a court worker is to look for situations that require the case to be put up to Territorial Court, at which time a Legal Aid lawyer would appear. But in any case, even in front of a JP, if it’s a show cause hearing, Legal Aid will provide a lawyer. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Dent. Supplementary, Mr. Pokiak.

Supplementary To Question 310-15(3): Eligibility For Legal Aid Before A Justice Of The Peace

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Can the Minister inform this Assembly what percentage of their time the Legal Aid lawyers spend in JP court and whether stopping this practice will increase the amount of time the Legal Aid lawyers can spend defending people charged with serious crimes and criminal offences? Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Pokiak. Mr. Dent.

Further Return To Question 310-15(3): Eligibility For Legal Aid Before A Justice Of The Peace

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I don’t have the exact percentage of time that lawyers attend JP court. It’s not very often in the Northwest Territories because, as I mentioned, they only attend for show cause hearings typically, or when the terms are being set for somebody’s release. The exact percentage I can’t provide, however, it’s not very often. It’s not a practice that has happened anywhere across the Territories. The role of the court worker is to attend JP court and watch for situations where a lawyer should be involved and ask, in those circumstances, for the case to be set over to the Territorial Court. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.