Debates of October 26, 2006 (day 16)

Thank you, Mr. Hawkins. The honourable Minister responsible for Justice, Mr. Bell.

Return To Question 201-15(5): Access To Legal Aid Services

Mr. Speaker, obviously the Member and I agree. Access to justice is critical. We need to make sure that those who can’t afford legal representation, when they are in legal need, have that access. We have had some concern.

The Members on the other side have raised questions continually about our caseloads and backlogs. I am happy to say that we are making some significant progress. We typically averaged well over 100 people on the waiting list. I think we have that down now, I understand, as of September 1st, south of 50, I believe, who are waiting to be assigned lawyers. We have a mixed system where we rely on both staff lawyers and the private Bar, but, Mr. Speaker, we aren’t satisfied in this regard. We think we can do more.

It is a constant battle to recruit lawyers. We are looking at some things outside the box. I have had some discussions with my department recently about having a lawyer attend on the basis of a local service provider. I don’t want to get into too much detail at this point, just to suggest that the idea is that a morning each week, a legal aid lawyer would attend at this facility and help people who are there get access to legal aid. I have some questions about whether or not everybody feels comfortable dealing with our current framework and mechanism for access to legal aid. I want to make sure that those questions are answered. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Bell. Supplementary, Mr. Hawkins.

Supplementary To Question 201-15(5): Access To Legal Aid Services

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Maybe I will respect the fact that the Minister didn’t mention the name, so maybe I will be cautious at this stage of this next question. If he wishes to mention it, I will leave it up to him. Mr. Speaker, this type of new pilot project initiative about getting potentially a lawyer out there into the community, into an area where people need legal services most, people need advice on what to do. We are talking about people who are at the most risk situation and helping them get out of those terrible situations. So, Mr. Speaker, when does the Minister of Justice see this happening in a timely way? Can he express a period or a range when this new initiative, pilot project or whatever he may call it, when does he see it happening? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Hawkins. Mr. Bell.

Further Return To Question 201-15(5): Access To Legal Aid Services

Mr. Speaker, I have asked my department to do some planning. I have set a target of January 1st. I think that is a reasonable time frame. Let me give the Member an example. The Centre for Northern Families in Yellowknife currently has a program where a physician attends to deal and work with some of the clients, I believe, on women’s health issues, issues related to pregnancy, with raising children. I think that is very effective and very important. We know we have clinics throughout the city that people can go to, but I think it has been proven that that is not as accessible for some of the clientele who are in critical need. I would like to replicate that kind of service. I would like to go out and see if there is a demand for this, Mr. Speaker. So that is the kind of example that I will be following up. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. This afternoon, I would like to ask the Honourable Brendan Bell some questions regarding the performance of, and at, the North Slave Correctional Centre, and specifically regarding some of the conditions in which some inmates are managed there, Mr. Speaker. One of the things I encountered in talking to a couple of inmates was their frustration at not being able to find out just what their situation was and when they felt that there was something that they just could not get resolved, some difficulties, some discrepancy, some conflict between them and their supervisors or case workers, they had nowhere to go except, at least in one case, to their MLA. So I got some pretty frequent phone calls. Mr. Speaker, what I wanted to ask about was the provision that is in our Corrections Act for a position called a corrections investigator who is like an ombudsman or a person who inmates can go to when they encounter systemic difficulties. Is such a person on staff, on contract, or available to inmates now, or has this position been allowed to lapse, Mr. Speaker?

Thank you, Mr. Braden. The honourable Minister responsible for Justice, Mr. Bell.

Return To Question 202-15(5): Operational Review Of The North Slave Correctional Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The first level of appeal when an inmate has a concern is, as it should be, I believe, in the Department of Corrections. But sometimes the inmate won’t get the satisfaction they feel that they need there and would like to take it to the higher level. The Member has cited the provision that allows for that. We have never had, to my understanding, a staff person who fulfills that role. We have gone out for expressions of interest in the past and had people on contract. We no longer have somebody on contract. The department has advised me that we would seek to do that on a need basis, so that, when one was required, we would go out and find someone. I have suggested and asked the department to go out and pursue this now, make sure we have a contract so that there is somebody in place and we don’t lose any time should the need arise. So we are doing that, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Bell. Supplementary, Mr. Braden.

Supplementary To Question 202-15(5): Operational Review Of The North Slave Correctional Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I appreciate the Minister’s initiative in this area. Kind of related to this, Mr. Speaker, is there has been a service provided by some volunteer organizations in our community, especially the John Howard Society which, on a volunteer basis of late at least, has gone into the North Slave Correctional Centre, and had face-to-face involvement opportunity to work with inmates in their rehabilitation. But this summer, I understand for a variety of reasons that access by these volunteers was curtailed quite extensively, Mr. Speaker. I wanted to ask whether we have a policy regarding the access of volunteers to the inmate population, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Braden. Mr. Bell.

Further Return To Question 202-15(5): Operational Review Of The North Slave Correctional Centre

Mr. Speaker, thank you. I would like to say I am sure, but I believe we do have an operational policy with this respect at the facilities. There are, of course, always in these situations potentially safety concerns for inmates or for volunteers who would come. It is of paramount importance that we ensure that safety, but let me say that the John Howard Society fulfills a critical role, I believe, in society but in our corrections system. I appreciate the good work that they do. We want to make sure that they do have access to our facilities, but there are some things that we need to ensure like the safety, as I have indicated. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Bell. Supplementary, Mr. Braden.

Supplementary To Question 202-15(5): Operational Review Of The North Slave Correctional Centre

Mr. Speaker, could the Minister advise on the adequacy of staffing at the North Slave Correctional Centre and the training of our staff? This is in relation to complaints and concerns that I received, Mr. Speaker, that there is often communication difficulties, inconsistency with communications, and inadequacy and shortcomings in the delivery of programs for inmates, programs relating to addictions, literacy, school and these kinds of things, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Braden. Mr. Bell.

Further Return To Question 202-15(5): Operational Review Of The North Slave Correctional Centre

Mr. Speaker, a couple of issues. I think both of them were raised in the HR review. There were many, as Mr. Ramsay has pointed out a number of times, recommendations that we are moving forward with. I think communications have vastly improved at the facility. I think programming is ever improving, Mr. Speaker. Can we do more and can we do better? Yes, I believe we can, but I think we have a number of good programs in place, some recent media coverage, some speculation that we cancelled some programs. In fact, Mr. Speaker, we have reviewed some of our programs and are seeking to improve them. We have felt that some of the people delivering the programming needed more training to ensure that the programs were improved and more adequate. So we have undertaken that, Mr. Speaker. I think all of the programs should be back on line in the next couple of months because, really, as I have indicated, they have never been cancelled. One was delayed for a couple of months while we engaged in some training. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Bell. Final, short supplementary, Mr. Braden.

Supplementary To Question 202-15(5): Operational Review Of The North Slave Correctional Centre

Mr. Speaker, related to the overall performance of our correction centre, the correction service has a values and mission and vision statement. I won’t read it here. I don’t have too much time. Actually, the way it is written, Mr. Speaker, might get me cited for the CBC "What Are They Saying" contest here. Is there a regularly scheduled program of performance operational review? When was the last one conducted? When might we see the next one, Mr. Speaker?

Thank you, Mr. Braden. There are three questions there, Mr. Bell.

Further Return To Question 202-15(5): Operational Review Of The North Slave Correctional Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I now too am ever mindful of trying to avoid that segment on CBC. There is a review underway right now of our corrections program and the facility. We think that we need to obviously ensure that our programming is as good as it can be. So we have had some concerns come up. Obviously, the Members know we ran a deficit last year. We had some cost drivers that we are seeking to address. We need to know exactly what we are legislatively required to provide, what types of service and other things that are add-on. So we are viewing all of these things. I have indicated that we will come back to the committee with the results of that review shortly; pre-Christmas, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, in my Member’s statement I spoke to the value of health care professionals. I fully appreciate the fact that a lot of nurses come north to work and they have some financial incentive to do so. I think if we put some of these incentives in place permanently, then they may want to just live here and work up here. I would like to ask the Minister of Health and Social Services, Mr. Roland, if his department has any authority to give retention bonuses or a few more incentives for health care professionals. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. McLeod. The honourable Minister responsible for Health and Social Services, Mr. Roland.

Return To Question 203-15(5): Incentives And Retention Bonuses For Health Care Professionals

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, in the area of nurse pay or bonus systems, the government has, in the past, worked with the union and internally to come up with a system. It was put in place. It was there for a short period, trying to encourage the nurses to stay in the North. As well, part of the bonus was to reward them for their years of service. That worked for a little while, but we found as well that, in some cases, as we no sooner made the payment to some of the individuals, they left the Northwest Territories. So it didn’t quite work out how it was designed. We have tried to look at a number of other options to fill the gaps. Anything we would do in this area would require the involvement of the UNW as well. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Roland. Supplementary, Mr. McLeod.

Supplementary To Question 203-15(5): Incentives And Retention Bonuses For Health Care Professionals

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I appreciate the fact that you would have to go through the UNW, but I feel nurses are different. They could be on the same pay level as a carpenter, for example, and the work that they do, in my opinion, is a lot more important. Has the department ever been approached by health care professionals to negotiate their own contract? Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. McLeod. Mr. Roland.

Further Return To Question 203-15(5): Incentives And Retention Bonuses For Health Care Professionals

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, yes, a number of times this issue has come up. In fact, the very first time was when we took over the delivery of health care from the federal government. That was the first time it came up. It has been reviewed a number of times. This time, not in looking at making our union or setting up another union process, we would still have to follow the same rules as we do when it comes to equal pay, pay equity and those issues as well. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Roland. Supplementary, Mr. McLeod.

Supplementary To Question 203-15(5): Incentives And Retention Bonuses For Health Care Professionals

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, would his department consider entering into separate contracts with each nurse that comes up here on a nurse-to-nurse basis? Is that possible? Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. McLeod. Mr. Roland.

Further Return To Question 203-15(5): Incentives And Retention Bonuses For Health Care Professionals

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I am aware that, within the department and our hiring practices, we have tried to come up with some unique ideas or processes of coming up with nurses. Part of the problem is because there is such a large vacancy rate that occurred at one point, we had to come up with this idea. In fact, I believe before we, as we now term it "agency nurses," that was some of the practices that came in place with individuals. Of course, in a work environment, when you find that there is a large demand, there is also the other side of the equation that comes into play where they then do find themselves in a position of some authority in a sense of being able to deliver services for us and trying to fill a gap. We came up with this option of using agency nurses to fill a gap. Unfortunately, we found ourselves having to use that more and more. We are looking at another option of trying to move away from that, but it will take some work and some time. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Roland. Final supplementary, Mr. McLeod.

Supplementary To Question 203-15(5): Incentives And Retention Bonuses For Health Care Professionals

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, as we well know that a lot of southern agency nurses come north to work. What I am afraid of here, and maybe it is an option, we may see a northern pool of agency nurses. Would that be an option for the department to negotiate with them as an agency pool of northern nurses? Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. McLeod. Mr. Roland.

Further Return To Question 203-15(5): Incentives And Retention Bonuses For Health Care Professionals

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I guess that is an option. If we were to lose our northern nurses and they formed an agency and then contracted the Government of the Northwest Territories, that is not something we would encourage. Ultimately, it comes back to the ability to find the dollars to do this. Hopefully, with some of our other plans in place, we will be able to start coming back to the way we have done it in the past where we hire north and keep our nurses in the North. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, in my quick Member’s statement, I forgot to mention the elders in terms of the extreme makeover I was talking about. I wanted to ask the Minister of the NWT Housing Corporation, we have about an hour and 25 minutes in terms of his portfolio. Would he consider looking at the elders in the Northwest Territories and speaking also for my region in terms of what I talked about a monitor of those heaters that they put into independent homes for the elders to reduce the cost of living to the elders’ homes. Can the Minister provide me with some information as to if this is possible to put these heaters in these independent homes to save costs on the elders’ pension cheques? Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Yakeleya. The honourable Minister responsible for Housing, Mr. Krutko.

Return To Question 204-15(5): Heaters In Independent Homes For Elders

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, we have had several projects we have done in different communities where they put space heaters in seniors’ homes to bring down the cost of energy and also ensure that they live comfortably but also realize that they also have a set income they have to work with. So we have done several projects like this in conjunction with band councils on behalf of their membership and we are open to that initiative. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Krutko. Supplementary, Mr. Yakeleya.

Supplementary To Question 204-15(5): Heaters In Independent Homes For Elders

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I think this would be a really good sign of support for these elders in terms of these independent homes. The Member from Hay River South talked about the types of initiatives that we could do in terms of having energy-efficient homes. Can the Minister commit to having his department look at an assessment in terms of what will it cost to bring in these space heater projects? I know the number of elders that may qualify for these space heaters for this winter. I know because the issue of helping them out would require more time in the next couple of days here. So I would ask the Minister to give that thought. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Yakeleya. Mr. Krutko.

Further Return To Question 204-15(5): Heaters In Independent Homes For Elders

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Yes, we do have several programs that are there, designed to assist seniors to be independent, to live in their homes as long as possible. We do have the seniors Home Repair Program. We have the Seniors' Maintenance Program. We have the Seniors' Independence Program. The heater that the Member’s talking about is a space heater, which is roughly in the range of about $3,500. I think that it is what we find the clients have had installed in their house and they are very quiet, they do keep the home very comfortable and I think it’s important that if this is the way that we can bring down the cost of the seniors heating their homes and also ensuring that they’re able to take advantage of the seniors' fuel subsidy so they don’t have to take money out of their pocket to heat themselves, that this is a good program. So I’d like to tell the Member that we are looking at taking this program forward, we are looking at consolidating our programs, and this is one of the areas that we would really like to see an improvement, especially having been involved with working with the Seniors' Society on this and this is one of the programs they very much would like to see implemented. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Krutko. Supplementary, Mr. Yakeleya.

Supplementary To Question 204-15(5): Heaters In Independent Homes For Elders

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I appreciate the Minister’s comments on to the cost of the space heaters. I’m asking the Minister, can he look at Colville Lake, Deline, Tulita, Fort Good Hope, even Norman Wells, in terms of saying we would look at these independent homeowners? Seniors are very proud and we would like to put in based on the amounts that we have, put in these pilot project space heaters in the communities to look at these elders and say yes, we are supporting you and we are supporting independent living. I’d like to see that type of commitment from this government. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Yakeleya. Mr. Krutko.

Further Return To Question 204-15(5): Heaters In Independent Homes For Elders

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, as I mentioned, there are programs that can do exactly what the Member is asking for. Again, it’s an application-based program and I encourage the Member to work with his communities and put forward an application to the regional office and see if he can do a pilot project in those particular communities for the seniors that you represent. But again, it’s an application-based program and by way of coming forward with an application for each community or for an individual or for a number of individuals, then it would be looked at project by project. Thank you.