Debates of October 27, 2004 (day 29)

Good afternoon, Members. Before we begin, I would like to draw your attention to the visitor’s gallery. I am pleased to recognize the district governor, Bruce Christensen and his wife, Cheryl, from Fort St. John, B.C.

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With them is president Janet Robinson of the Yellowknife Rotary Club.

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District Governor Bruce represents 53 rotary clubs in Western Canada: Saskatchewan, Alberta, British Columbia; and two in the NWT: Yellowknife and Hay River. Rotary internationals are preparing to celebrate 100 years of community and international service by 1.2 million Rotarians in 166 countries. Their most outstanding achievement in conjunction with international health organizations will be a polio-free world by the end of 2005.

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Also with them is a fellow Rotarian, acting as their official guide, and a former Speaker of this House, Mr. Tony Whitford.

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Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the price of residential land is determined by the location, cost of development, and supply and demand. Before you have houses, you have to have land to put them on. In Yellowknife, the cost of land has gone through the roof because of the lack of supply and an ever-increasing demand. People are paying hundreds of thousands of dollars to live in cramped townhouses with no land just to put a roof over the heads of their families.

Mr. Speaker, they are the lucky ones. Others are being forced out of apartments that they can no longer afford because of escalating rents. The Salvation Army shelter is full to overflowing with many in this situation. Furthermore, we are trying to encourage skilled people

to come and work in the North, but we can’t offer them affordable housing.

With the construction of the pipeline requiring all available labour, the Territories is going to be desperate for qualified trades people. The cost of housing up here and the lack of it is going to affect our ability to attract them. Already we have hundreds of fly-in/fly-out workers. Their income taxes and wages are flying out with them, Mr. Speaker. This situation is really strange, Mr. Speaker. We have 1.17 million square kilometres of land, but one of our main housing problems is we have no land to build on.

In the interest of both private and social housing, Mr. Speaker, in areas where land claims are settled, we need to deal with the backlogs and try to speed up the process of transferring land to fee-simple title. Where land claims are not settled, we need to work with community and aboriginal governments to come up with a better way of agreeing to what lands can be developed. Deadlocks are not serving anyone’s interest. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, my Member’s statement today is on log housing pilot projects in the Sahtu and Northwest Territories. Canadian Mortgage and Housing Corporation funding is declining; $33.2 million will be phased out by the year 2038. This is a substantial challenge to the GNWT as a whole, and the NWT Housing Corporation in particular.

A creative solution is needed, Mr. Speaker. According to the community housing needs and detailed results, tabled in the House on October 21st, 35 percent of houses in the Sahtu are in core need. Overcrowding is a problem. Between 13 and 21 percent of homes outside of the regional centre have six persons or more living in them. Only four percent of homes in Yellowknife are this crowded. The average for the Territories as a whole is seven percent.

Since 1981, the percentage of houses in need of major repairs has increased in every one of the communities in the Sahtu, with the exception of Colville Lake. Colville Lake has decreased from 100 percent to 85 percent since 2000. Thirty-nine percent of Fort Good Hope homes are in need of major repairs today. The majority of the GNWT housing budget is spent in communities: 89 percent of the budget.

It is important that communities are consulted on how the communities’ needs can be best met. People in the Sahtu are interested in log homes as a viable option at least for seniors. This program can potentially promote self-reliance, provide youth with training opportunities, and get away from cultural dependency. Mr. Speaker, the department says that they are reluctant to pursue this initiative. That initiative has failed in the past due to the high cost of logs and the cost of trainers. The cost is substantially reduced when you factor in the benefits of capacity building, local materials and housing that is more culturally appropriate for our people: the pride of creating a home.

Mr. Speaker, the report on the draft estimates that the program for smaller communities are more economically…(inaudible)…Mr. Speaker, the official records show no indication that the current Minister of Housing is going to follow through on the commitment made by the previous Minister. I will ask questions during oral question period. Thank you.

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Mr. Speaker, I wish to speak once again on the issue of housing in our communities; not about housing statistics or policies and programs, today I want to put a human face on housing. I want to tell you the story of one of my constituents and the situation she finds herself in. It is a personal story, one of an elderly person involving one household, but it is not unique. I am concerned that there are many such stories out there.

This particular woman received a house from the NWT Housing Corporation about 15 years ago. Until recently, she was very happy with the house. It was a healthy and secure place for her and her family. It was a good thing, Mr. Speaker, good on her and good for the Housing Corporation. But a few years ago, things started to go wrong; not through anyone’s fault necessarily, it was probably just due to the age of the house. Water began to seep into the basement; well, not exactly seep. Every spring, as the snow melted, the basement flooded. With so much water coming in the basement of the house, it never completely dried out. As a result, the basement walls are now covered with black mould and, in some places, even green slime.

Now, after living with the problem for several years, the people in the house have developed health problems. First the woman began to suffer from chronic headaches. Now she is making a series of visits to doctors to seek relief from a serious skin rash that has developed. The doctors say she has developed an allergy, something she never suffered from before. She has also developed asthma and is now very concerned about her health. But her primary concern is with the health of her two grandchildren who also live in the house. The youngest, a baby, is constantly ill, and the older grandchild, who is only five years old, has developed asthma too, even at that young age.

The Housing Corporation recognized a problem and, to their credit, spent $65,000 to repair the house. But here is another sad twist to the story. The house didn’t get fixed. The contractor may have done something, but no one from the Housing Corporation came to see if the work had been done properly. As it turns out, it wasn’t. The basement still floods, and the health problems of the house occupants persist.

This story isn’t over yet, so I am wondering how it will end. Will it have a happy ending? Will this woman get the help she needs and get her house fixed properly, or does this story end tragically with debilitating lifelong health problems?

Mr. Menicoche, your time for your Member’s statement has expired.

Mr. Speaker, thank you.

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Thank you, Mr. Menicoche. Members, I would like to draw your attention once more to the visitor’s gallery with the presence of a former Member of this House, a former Minister, a former Speaker, a former Government House Leader, Mr. Richard Nerysoo.

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Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Recently, the NWT Housing Corporation has put some of their units for sale in the NWT; in particular, older units or units considered to be in need of major repair.

Mr. Speaker, there are, as I see it, two types of buyers for these units. Firstly, there are the elderly, who have lived in these units for 20 years or more. Once they purchase these units, they become responsible for the maintenance and upkeep of the units. I believe, Mr. Speaker, that, given the fact that these elders live on a fixed pension income, their purchasing the unit will create hardship for them when they have to pay for ongoing maintenance costs. Now I realize, Mr. Speaker, that the Housing Corporation has provided some relief to elderly homeowners through their newly announced maintenance program that will service things like furnaces. However, it may be necessary in some communities to do more as there is not a private sector to do work on housing units.

A second group of purchasers would be businesspeople who are looking to service a rental market. I know a business in Tuktoyaktuk that purchased two units and spent a considerable amount of money renovating and a considerable amount of time resolving land title issues. He is now having trouble renting these units out because there is a limited private rental market in Tuktoyaktuk at the moment and causes main competition with the units managed by another organization. In any event, Mr. Speaker, this person is a businessman who understood the risk of what he was getting into.

I applaud the Housing Corporation for taking the steps to sell off the old housing stocks. However, Mr. Speaker, I would urge the Housing Corporation to ensure that any potential purchaser, be it an elder or a businessperson, understand the responsibilities of homeownership and be provided information on the current rental market. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, today I would like to speak on a couple of issues affecting housing in my riding of North Slave. I am concerned with the delivery of the market housing initiative in the North Slave in 2005. This year, the community of Rae-Edzo was fortunate enough to receive six units. If there is a need for market housing units in the three other communities in the North Slave, they will have to be shipped in by the winter road usually before April 15th. This is the only option, Mr. Speaker. The last time I looked, there wasn’t a summer barge program to Gameti or my two other communities. So if we decide that the program will continue in 2005, the Housing Corporation is going to have to be prepared to ensure that the needs of the communities without a summer road or barge service are met in a very timely manner. Judging by the performance during the first year of the marketing housing initiative, Mr. Speaker, this caused me some concern.

The other area I would like to talk about is the delivery of repair programs in the North Slave. Many of my constituents wait years to have their units repaired. What has been occurring is that the housing authority waits until they have funding to do a major overhaul on a unit. What I would like to see, Mr. Speaker -- to reduce the strain on tenants and provide them with a measure of hope that someone is actually trying to meet their needs -- would be a piecemeal approach where, for example, in one year, people would have their flooring replaced, or perhaps in the following year the doors and windows repaired or replaced. I am sure if the housing authority was seen to be trying to deal with the issue of inadequacy in a timely manner, the corporation might see an even better result for their 2008 housing survey needs.

In closing, Mr. Speaker, I would like to say that there are a lot of good people working at the local level delivering housing programs in the Northwest Territories. They will, however, be faced with more and more challenges as the federal government reduces funding in the delivery of social housing. The district offices will need to work closely and cooperatively with regional governments and land claim organizations, as well as individual housing clients to get the best value for our diminishing housing funding. Our job as government will be to provide the supports the local housing authorities needs to be successful.

Mr. Speaker, I would like to seek unanimous consent to conclude my statement.

The Member is seeking unanimous consent to conclude his statement. Are there any nays? There are no nays. You may conclude your statement, Mr. Zoe.

Mr. Speaker, I would like to thank my colleagues for allowing me to conclude my statement. As I was saying, to get the best value for our diminishing housing funding, our job as government will be to provide the supports the local housing authorities need to be successful. Mahsi cho.

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Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I rise again to speak about my concerns about the territorial government not having a formal policy in dealing with social housing with people with disabilities. Mr. Speaker, I happened to go back to the transcripts and I noted that for some reason that slipped through my fingers during question period, and so I will be raising that concern with much stronger diligence this time.

Mr. Speaker, I had asked the Minister at that time about where our policy is, and I still don’t see us having a policy and I’m afraid that got missed. So, Mr. Speaker, I have to compliment the Minister for his willingness to do an audit and I have to say I was whelmed. Mr. Speaker, it is time we get overwhelmed on this side of the government. It’s time that we see true willingness. So, Mr. Speaker, I will be pursuing this shameful policy that we live by or, I should say, without having a policy.

Mr. Speaker, the Government of the Northwest Territories could be seen as the king of policy, the king of bureaucracy, but it’s time to take a public stand on this issue. It’s time to take a public stand where we change our Third World conditions that our people with disabilities are living in and we move forward to the First World conditions. We need a policy, we need a comprehensive booklet that works with national standards, so we need to recognize the conditions that our people are living in and it’s time to raise the bar. So, Mr. Speaker, later today I will be asking questions of that Minister. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, new industry, unprecedented resource development and population growth are pushing our social infrastructure to the breaking point. Housing warrants our attention on an urgent basis. Our public and social housing system, Mr. Speaker, is built almost entirely on federal funding. Currently we owe $90 million in long-term housing loans to the Canada Mortgage and Housing Corporation. It costs us $13 million a year to finance this, Mr. Speaker, and just to give you an illustration on how dependent we are on CMHC, they contribute $12 million of this $13 million annual financing cost to us.

Another dependency that we have is almost $19 million a year in operation and maintenance funding that also comes from CMHC. Add it all up and this year we will be receiving $33.2 million from CMHC. But that is a sunset program, Mr. Speaker. Under a 40-year deal that was signed with the corporation in the mid-1990s, this very critical and strategic investment in our infrastructure will dwindle, by 2038, to nothing. Yet the only plan that the NWT Housing Corporation has to restore it is, “to continue to lobby the federal government to restore funding to new public housing units and stop the reduction of O and M funding for existing units.” I am quoting from the 2003-06 Business Plans tabled here last February.

Mr. Speaker, this is a remarkably lax and uninspiring strategy in the face of a very vital, but vanishing source of money. I wish the federal government had never backed out of its very critical investment in public housing across the country.

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We cannot trust our corporation's current strategy, simply to continue lobbying to restore that. In fact, Mr. Speaker, I think it would be naive and irresponsible to rest only on that strategy. I believe the solutions lie in innovations and thinking outside the box, Mr. Speaker. The solutions lie in new technology, energy and cost-saving designs, new funding partnerships and a new sense of pride and ownership in all our communities, about the value of public housing and the value of responsible homeownership. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, in case the Members on the other side hadn’t noticed yet, we are having a cleaning day today on housing.

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Mr. Speaker, I would like to read into the record the mandate of the NWT Housing Corporation. The mandate of the Northwest Territories Housing Corporation is to assist communities to assume the role of providing housing to their residents and to sustain northern economic development. This is achieved by providing leadership and support to communities in the areas of technical research and services, financial support, information sharing, training, as well as economic development initiatives.

Mr. Speaker, I don’t know when the last time this mandate or this vision statement for the Housing Corporation was visited, but I think it needs to be looked at. I think that these things that are listed here, you could reasonably say are at cross purposes with each other. We are talking about a social program to provide people with accommodation and we are also talking about ways of making money and promoting economic development. There may be some overlap, but I do think that this mandate is perhaps somewhat deceiving.

It brings out a point though with respect to the reference to assisting communities to assume. I think everyone knows that in the Northwest Territories we have very diverse communities with very diverse lifestyles. When I say diverse communities, some are remote, some are on road systems, some have very traditional lifestyles and some not. Some have market properties available on a rental basis, some do not, where primarily the landlord is the NWT Housing Corporation. So, Mr. Speaker, I think we need to look at the mandate, we do need to provide communities with the opportunity to develop policies and programs which are tailored to the residents of that community. I don’t think that there is a one-size-fits-all in terms of programming, and I would like to see more responsibility devolve to the communities so that we can get maximum use of our resource in this area to meet the needs of the people. I could say a lot more about housing, Mr. Speaker, but this is a short opportunity. I look forward to asking the Minister some questions later today. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I would like to speak today about the needs for senior housing in Yellowknife, and the need for the Department of Health and Social Services and the NWT Housing Corporation to partner strongly in meeting the objectives of the YACCS in Yellowknife who's excellent work in this area.

Hear! Hear!

Mr. Speaker, a 2002 feasibility and market research study commissioned by the YACCS has shown very clearly that there is huge need for senior housing in Yellowknife, because there are a lot more people now retiring in Yellowknife and that’s a good thing and the government should welcome that and accommodate essential needs of seniors.

Mr. Speaker, I could tell you that there are Avens independent courts in the middle of Yellowknife, there are 24 units and last year there was a zero turnover rate in that 24-unit complex. This year there was one, and there is a waiting list of 10. Clearly, at one a year with a waiting list of 10, that would take 10 years, and it is unreasonable for government to expect that these seniors should sit around and wait for these units to become available.

One of the ideas that YACCS has, it has worked out a feasibility plan to build a senior housing condominium in the space that they have available there. They own the land, they have a financial plan, they have a physical plan and they are gathering interest from the seniors who would want to live there. It really requires the help of the Housing Corporation to make this happen and I would urge the government to engage in this process in a very aggressive way.

Mr. Speaker, the second way we could deal with the housing shortage for seniors is to build a dementia facility in Yellowknife. There are very strong studies done by YACCS that show a huge need, not only in the city of Yellowknife, but in surrounding areas. It has been proven, care providers have known for years that the needs of seniors are changing and those with dementia require specialized facilities and specialized programming. The Avens Manor, as it exists and it was meant to work, cannot cater to that. They have a program in place, they have a plan in place, they have a design, they have everything in line. All they need is some support from the Department of Health and Social Services, which the Minister has not done so far and I urge him to do so. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Hear! Hear!

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Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I’m going to use my Member’s statement today to talk about the NWT Housing Corporation’s rent scale policy. Mr. Speaker, the rent scale policy of the NWT Housing Corporation is geared solely on income and has remained unchanged since its first implementation 30 years ago. There have been numerous consultation processes done by the Housing Corporation with local housing organizations, public housing clients, and the public in general on how the rent scale policy can be adjusted or changed to be more in harmony with the needs of public housing clients.

Mr. Speaker, talk of change in the rent scale has gone on for too long. It is time for the Housing Corporation to start the ball rolling towards a system of public housing rental rates which reflect and assist persons in public housing to move away from public housing units and into more independent housing. The current system, as everyone is aware, is a system which encourages people to remain in public housing, encourages people to not go out and look for a job and, sadly, encourages people to not pay rent at all. This government has been dragging its feet on the issue for too long and it’s time to roll out a new policy which has been developed, and show persons in public housing and the public and the people in the NWT that the Housing Corporation is not all talk, but does have a plan to moving forward with harmonizing needs with resources. Mahsi, Mr. Speaker.

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Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I have a return to oral question asked by Mr. Hawkins on October 19, 2004, regarding the Aurora College lease in Northern United Place.

The lease at Northern United Place is administered by Aurora College in Fort Smith. I have been advised that the lease expires on August 31, 2007, and has two five-year renewal options.

My department has been working with the Department of Education, Culture and Employment to review various accommodation options for Aurora College. The discussions are very preliminary and no decisions have yet been made. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, it gives me great pleasure to recognize a former Member of this House, the former Member for Mackenzie Delta and now the chief for the Inuvik Band Council, Mr. Richard Nerysoo.

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Thank you, Mr. Krutko. Item 5, recognition of visitors in the gallery. The honourable Member for Nunakput, Mr. Pokiak.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would also like to recognize Mr. Richard Nerysoo, a former classmate of mine from years ago. It’s good to see him up there. Thank you.

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Thank you, Mr. Pokiak. Item 5, recognition of visitors in the gallery. I’ll take this opportunity to welcome any of our guests who we have visiting with us in the gallery today who haven’t been recognized. Welcome to the Legislative Assembly.

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Thank you, Mr. Speaker. To follow up on the theme today, my questions are directed to Mr. Krutko, the Minister responsible for the Housing Corporation. I was looking at the business plan for the corporation and reflecting on the diminishing funding levels from the Canada Mortgage and Housing Corporation, which today amount to in the order of $33 million a year. These will sunset. My question, Mr. Speaker, is what lobbying efforts are underway now to restore federal investment in public housing in the Northwest Territories? Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Braden. The Minister responsible for the Housing Corporation, the Honourable Mr. Krutko.

Return To Question 315-15(3): Future Investments In Housing

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I’d like to thank the Member for that question. Presently we are in dialogue and talks with the people from the AFN -- Billy Erasmus -- with regards to aboriginal housing in Canada. Like I noted earlier, I had a meeting with the federal Minister in Vancouver a number of weeks ago and I believe that the national attention that is on housing and homelessness is out there. I think because of that we, in the North, also have to realize that with these declining funds from CMHC, we have to find new ways of facing our challenges.

We are working with other agencies out there, especially the people in the First Nations community, AFN. We’re also scheduled to meet with the federal Minister at the First Ministers’ meeting at the end of November. That is the process right now that we’re using to dialogue with other organizations. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Krutko. Supplementary, Mr. Braden.

Supplementary To Question 315-15(3): Future Investments In Housing

Okay. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. So we really have nothing more than another meeting scheduled among Ministers. If the Minister would like to expand on anything there, I’d welcome it at some point, but I’d like to know what other options is our Housing Corporation looking at to ensure that we will continue to have adequate investment in our housing infrastructure, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Braden. Mr. Krutko.

Further Return To Question 315-15(3): Future Investments In Housing

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, right now, as a corporation, we are in the process of reviewing the mandate of this corporation. We are taking a look at the program services we do deliver. Also, we are looking at a 10-year plan to look forward on exactly where we go as a corporation and to take on the challenges that we’re facing. We have to find more unique ways of delivering housing in the Northwest Territories, especially with the number of houses that are going to be required. I know a couple of Members touched on the whole area of selling off public housing. That’s one area we’re looking at and, in order to achieve that, to sell off public housing and replacing them with multi-units where we have six or seven units instead of the high cost to operate or maintain a single dwelling. I think those are the types of things we’re looking at doing and moving toward. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Krutko. Your supplementary, Mr. Braden.

Supplementary To Question 315-15(3): Future Investments In Housing

Mr. Speaker, the 2004-06 business plan outlines a goal to build between 750 and 800 units in the NWT over the next five years. This is under the affordable housing strategy. Now, this goal is about 18 months old. It’s the most recent one that I could find that’s before the public, Mr. Speaker, and I’d like to ask if these targets, 750 to 800 units over the next five years, are still in place. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Braden. Mr. Krutko.

Further Return To Question 315-15(3): Future Investments In Housing

Mr. Speaker, that is one of the goals we are trying to meet but, based on the budget restraints we do have, in order to meet those goals there are certain things that have to happen. In order to do that we have to sell off units by way of almost 50 units a year to individuals who are either living in those units or to the private sector and replace those units with multi-plex units -- like I mentioned, the six-plex or eight-plex units -- to ensure that we’re able to fill that gap in order to meet that. The key to this is we have to change the way we do business, but to meet that goal we have to implement the 10-year plan that we have put forward and follow that plan to meet that goal at the end of the day.

Thank you, Mr. Krutko. Your final supplementary, Mr. Braden.

Supplementary To Question 315-15(3): Future Investments In Housing

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Okay, so there seems to be some momentum and some innovation here. The Minister has mentioned something about a 10-year plan. Is this something that has been put before the public or the Assembly and could the Minister tell us more about this initiative? Thank you.