Debates of October 27, 2004 (day 29)

Thank you, Mr. Yakeleya. Mr. Krutko.

Further Return To Question 318-15(3): Reduction Of Housing Funding

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I, as the Minister, am definitely open to proposals from any community if there are projects out there that they feel would really make a difference to the housing challenges they face in the communities. I’m willing to look at that. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Krutko. Final supplementary, Mr. Yakeleya.

Supplementary To Question 318-15(3): Reduction Of Housing Funding

Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. Thank you, Mr. Minister. The people in the Sahtu would be very happy to do a proposal. Would the Minister commit to a meeting with the Minister of Education, Culture and Employment within this fiscal year to put out a proposal that would be beneficial to our people? We need to hear from the government saying this is what we can do, this is the amount of dollars that we commit to this pilot project. Would the Minister give a commitment? Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Yakeleya. Mr. Krutko.

Further Return To Question 318-15(3): Reduction Of Housing Funding

Definitely I can’t commit for the Minister of Education, but I definitely will suggest that we sit down and talk about this. He’s heard the questions, so hopefully we can consider finding ways to implement such a program. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, my question today is for the Minister of Health and Social Services and it’s further to my Member’s statement. Mr. Speaker, I believe it is very clear that the YACCS, which stands for Yellowknife Association of Concerned Citizens for Seniors, have done all the work. They have the vision in place, they have plans in place, they have a plan for the Aven Manor, they have a plan for Aven seniors’ independent courts and their plan is like a domino or puzzle. One has to work in order for the rest of the pieces to fit, and they have a long-term plan to have seniors’ housing in the form of condominiums in the land that they have available in the same area of the manor and the courts. But their plan includes a dementia facility so that the people who need to go in there can do that, and so they can move on to the condominium idea. Mr. Speaker, I know that the Minister is well aware of this proposal, and last we heard from him he had provided a deposit or down payment or initial money for them to look into this. Now they have submitted a full proposal and I would like to know where the Minister stands on that. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Ms. Lee. The Minister of Health and Social Services, the Honourable Mr. Miltenberger.

Return To Question 319-15(3): YACCS Proposal For Facility Use

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I met a number of months ago now with YACCS and I met with the Social Programs committee on this issue. I believe that I have also written to the Yellowknife MLAs who are supporting this project. Basically what is currently happening is we are in the process of completing a report that’s due in November. It’s going to look at facility usage across the Northwest Territories in terms of acute care beds and long-term care beds and the issue of dementia and how it impacts not only Yellowknife, but Hay River, Inuvik, Fort Smith and Simpson, all the places that have facilities. As I indicated to the executive of YACCS, the Yellowknife proposal that has been done is going to be part of those deliberations. That will be part of the report that I will be bringing back to Cabinet and to the Social Programs committee that will lay out how we are going to reprofile some of the resources as they relate to a surplus of acute care beds, as well as how we are proposing to move ahead to deal with the issue of dementia and dealing with the cognitively impaired across the Northwest Territories, including Yellowknife. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger. Supplementary, Ms. Lee.

Supplementary To Question 319-15(3): YACCS Proposal For Facility Use

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. This has been in the books for a very long time and I guess if the study is going to be done at the end of November, we have to wait for this. But I’m concerned that the Minister has not indicated enough commitment to seeing the results of the study being implemented. Mr. Speaker, I think the Minister is well aware that YACCS is not looking for capital funding, it’s not looking for a handout, it’s only looking for the commitment from the government to pay for the operating costs that the government would otherwise have to do anyway. So would the Minister, if there is a need found in this study, commit to providing operating funds to YACCS? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Ms. Lee. Mr. Miltenberger.

Further Return To Question 319-15(3): YACCS Proposal For Facility Use

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I’d like to point out that the government has been very committed to working with YACCS. The Department of Health and Social Services has given them money to do their studies. As a government we’ve turned over land worth $1.6 million to them to assist in their planning, and at this point it’s part of the mix when it comes to the final report that’s going to be coming out in November. There is a lot of money at stake that’s being requested. The YACCS facility is a multi-million dollar proposal with the territorial government being the sole funding agency that would pay the capital costs through the O and M budget, basically paying the lease costs or the mortgage costs through monthly payments. So the reality is we are going to be the sole funding agent. There is money on the table. We also have to factor in other needs in Hay River, Fort Smith, Inuvik, Fort Simpson as well as Yellowknife, and we have to come up with a plan that’s comprehensive for all territorial residents and we will come forward with that. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger. Supplementary, Ms. Lee.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I believe the Minister is only partially correct. He is correct and I give him credit and I give the government credit in saying that the YK Health and Department of Health and Social Services has given extra money to Aven Manor so that they could take care of seniors with dementia, which I would argue is their job, but thank you very much for giving that money.

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Mr. Speaker, I would also say that YACCS is not looking for capital funding. YACCS is proposing that they will go out to the private market to borrow the money to build this facility, as long as the government commits to giving them money to take care of these seniors. I think that’s a different thing, Mr. Speaker. These seniors with dementia are in private homes…

What is your question, Ms. Lee?

Supplementary To Question 319-15(3): YACCS Proposal For Facility Use

Mr. Speaker, I would like to know if he could give support in principle that if the need is found in this study, that he would look positively at giving operational funding that he would have to spend as the Minister of Health anyway for seniors. Thank you.

Hear! Hear!

Thank you, Ms. Lee. Mr. Miltenberger.

Further Return To Question 319-15(3): YACCS Proposal For Facility Use

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the reality is at the end of the day that the territorial government will be the sole funding agent for any development that goes on with dementia units, including the Yellowknife one. The reality is what they are looking at is a different variation, but the fundamental dollar requests come to the department, come to the government, and we are going to guarantee and through the O and M costs pay the mortgage costs for whatever construction takes place. So the reality is we’re going to work with YACCS. It’s going to be in the plan, but when the YACCS borrow the money what we are doing is guaranteeing repayment and we’re going to give them the repayments through the O and M. So it’s clear.

We may not call it capital, but it’s being funded through the territorial government and I have to make a case to my colleagues and this Legislature that that project, along with many others, deserves to be given consideration. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger. Final and third supplementary, Ms. Lee.

Supplementary To Question 319-15(3): YACCS Proposal For Facility Use

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I must say I don’t really like the general approach of all the Ministers. For some reason doing something for Yellowknife takes away from doing things for other communities, and I don’t accept that. Secondly, Mr. Speaker, the government has already set a precedent. We’re building a bridge, the government is funding it, but there are other people who are benefiting from it and the government is bridging with a private partner. Why can we not do that for seniors?

I think that’s a question, Ms. Lee. I’ll let the Minister answer that.

Further Return To Question 319-15(3): YACCS Proposal For Facility Use

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, with the bridge it is my understanding it is a P3 project that’s going to generate revenue through tolls. With this facility we are talking about building a facility that’s going to address a very specific need. It’s not a revenue-generating item. It’s one of providing a needed service not only in Yellowknife, but across the Northwest Territories. I’d like to remind the Member that, yes, she speaks as a Member for Yellowknife, but we are a government for all people of the Northwest Territories and it’s an issue that is a problem across the Northwest Territories and we have to have a territorial plan. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, my questions today are for the Minister responsible for the NWT Housing Corporation. Mr. Speaker, in my Member’s statement I outlined the mandate of the NWT Housing Corporation. I was just wondering if the Minister could, just in rough percentages, tell us how much of the mandate in the resources and energy of this corporation is devoted to social housing needs versus these other things such as economic development initiatives, research, training, these other things. Thank you.

Thank you, Mrs. Groenewegen. The Minister responsible for the Housing Corporation, Mr. Krutko.

Return To Question 320-15(3): Social Housing Resources

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, we received roughly $35 million from CMHC for social housing. As was mentioned in the House, those dollars are declining over the next 30 years. We are seeing it basically decline to zero. So because of that, we are having to refocus our efforts through looking at our mandate, but also instituting our business plans and working with communities through partnership agreements. I believe at the end of the day the people that make the difference are people in communities at the frontline through the local housing authorities, those organizations to devolve these authorities from the pot to ensure that those program responsibilities will be delivered to the client, which in most cases are in the communities. So we are looking at changing the mandate, coming forward with a 10-year plan and also realizing we have a major decline in cash flow, especially from the federal government through the CMHC funding, which again is $35 million which will decline over the next number of years.

Thank you, Mr. Krutko. Supplementary, Mrs. Groenewegen.

Supplementary To Question 320-15(3): Social Housing Resources

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, would the Minister know just approximately a ballpark figure as to what is spent by the NWT Housing Corporation on administrative overhead of headquarters? Thank you.

Thank you, Mrs. Groenewegen. Mr. Krutko.

Further Return To Question 320-15(3): Social Housing Resources

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I don’t have that information presently at hand. I believe it is in the audit report that I tabled in the House earlier this week, but I will definitely get that information for the Member.

Thank you, Mr. Krutko. Supplementary, Mrs. Groenewegen.

Supplementary To Question 320-15(3): Social Housing Resources

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the reason why I ask about how the mandate is divided and how much is spent on administrative overhead versus program delivery is because I believe that there are a lot of things that could be done that may seem smaller scale than building a lot of new housing units. I noticed, since I travel in the communities, that there are a lot of boarded up, vacant housing units in all of our communities, particularly in the smaller communities. I would like to know if the Minister has an idea of what kind of inventory of vacant units the NWT Housing Corporation has across the North. Thank you.

Thank you, Mrs. Groenewegen. Mr. Krutko.

Further Return To Question 320-15(3): Social Housing Resources

Again, Mr. Speaker, because we do have units that we maintain every other year, we put aside 10 to 12 units in a community so that we can renovate them over a period of time. We move our clients to different units. Because of the number of turnover that we have because of our maintenance programs, that number is inconsistent, so I can’t give the Member that information because it is a moving number. We do take units off of our system in order to meet our maintenance program. So because of that, those vacancies may not be…Again, I will make an attempt to get that information to the Member.

Thank you, Mr. Krutko. Final supplementary, Mrs. Groenewegen.

Supplementary To Question 320-15(3): Social Housing Resources

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I am thinking about more units I have seen in the communities that are boarded up. They look like no one has lived in them for quite some time, but they still may have some salvage value. The NWT Housing Corporation, if in fact they own them, might do well to turn those over to band councils, community corporations, a private developer, somebody who would want to put these units back into circulation in the communities so that there are more housing options available to those residents. Would the Minister commit to undertake an inventory of units that are not vacant because of maintenance, but are vacant because, essentially, they are out of service and abandoned? Thank you.

Thank you, Mrs. Groenewegen. Mr. Krutko.

Further Return To Question 320-15(3): Social Housing Resources

Yes, Mr. Speaker, we are in the process of doing that because we realize that we have to start identifying units that we have to dispose of, to have them replaced with other units. Right now, the way the local housing authorities receive the money, it is based on O and M dollars for their unit. They don’t get any new O and M dollars for replacing those units until they actually physically replace those units. So if you are carrying those units, you don’t get extra dollars for those new units until you replace that unit. Because of that, it is something that we are looking at. We have now hired a lands person to identify what lands we have in communities, where our units are, which units are getting disposed of, so we know exactly what our total inventory is. We are doing that at the present time. Again, I will commit to the Member that once we have more of that detail in place, we are willing to share that with the Members. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My questions today are for the Minister of Municipal and Community Affairs, Mr. McLeod. I am just wondering what steps the government is currently taking to address the chronic lack of available land for development in the city of Yellowknife. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay. Minister of Municipal and Community Affairs, Mr. McLeod.

Return To Question 321-15(3): Process To Address Land Shortage In Yellowknife

Mr. Speaker, we have a number of different processes across the NWT for providing additional land to the towns and cities. In the case of Yellowknife, we have not been aware that there has been an application filed for additional land outside of the town boundaries. We have been discussing the issue of some lands reverted back from the mines. We have included the Akaitcho Territory First Nations and the city. We have been having a number of meetings to come to some kind of a long-term plan of how we would arrange for land and also for the First Nations to bring their interests forward and also the city’s, to be able to develop a long-term plan. Right now, we are developing a process. We haven’t finalized an agreement as to how it is going to unfold at this point. We are still in discussions. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. McLeod. Supplementary, Mr. Ramsay.

Supplementary To Question 321-15(3): Process To Address Land Shortage In Yellowknife

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Thank you, Mr. Minister, for your response. The Minister spoke of a process that has been started by his department working with both the aboriginal government, the Akaitcho, and the City of Yellowknife. He says that work has begun on this agreement to set aside some land for development and to try to work together and cooperate on a long-term plan for the city of Yellowknife. I am just wondering when we might expect some dates or some of this work to be concluded and for the City of Yellowknife to have some surety on available land. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay. Mr. McLeod.

Further Return To Question 321-15(3): Process To Address Land Shortage In Yellowknife

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, in the Yellowknife area, we, as a department, have to follow a process that is in place, set up, and agreed upon by the Akaitcho Territory and this government through Aboriginal Affairs that spells out an interim measures agreement that we, as MACA, have to follow. In this case, we have had discussions with the Akaitcho First Nations and the city, and we have tentatively agreed that we would work towards developing a process where we wouldn’t run into a roadblock where the city is interested in some lands and the First Nations are also interested, or any of those types of situations. So we are working on a process right now and we are working trying to follow the Interim Measures Agreement. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. McLeod. Supplementary, Mr. Ramsay.

Supplementary To Question 321-15(3): Process To Address Land Shortage In Yellowknife