Debates of October 29, 2004 (day 31)

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, as I stated in response to the Member’s questions, overall, each government department has a different role to play. One is to look at their own assets and see if they are making proper use of them. As well, we do have a number of programs that are out there to help support individuals with the impact of the high cost of power, as well as the Seniors' Fuel Subsidy Program. So, Mr. Speaker, there are a number of things that go on, but I could not give the Member a specific example, for example, the Department of Health may be doing around its consumption of heating fuels. There have been initiatives undertaken to try and lower the cost of O and M. As I stated yesterday, through the normal budgetary exercise, as departments come forward, when they come forward for items around forced growth, we send it back to them and ask for further substantiation on some initiatives that are out there and try to ensure that they are making the best use of the resources that are provided to them. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Roland. Supplementary, Mr. Hawkins.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I won’t go to the length of yesterday’s transcripts, but I will refer to pages 2380, 2381, 2382, and 2383. I will just paraphrase to put it all together. The Minister spoke about departments consulting with RWED, the Department of Housing. He talked about on an annual basis. Some of these problems we can’t build into a budget exercise, anticipated costs, operational things are being done. We realize that there are going to be some impacts, but to mitigate them, we have to work forward at the time with real bills. Mr. Speaker, I am basically talking about the fact that we could be doing things. Yesterday I said let’s be proactive. Let’s get a directive from this department, from this Minister, about turning down the lights. These are things we can do. Engage the Arctic Energy Alliance and say come up with a five-point plan. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Hawkins. I didn’t hear a question there, Mr. Hawkins. Do you want to rephrase that and ask a question? Mr. Hawkins.

Supplementary To Question 338-15(3): Government Consumption Of Fuels And Power

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Could this government engage the Arctic Energy Alliance in getting something like a five-point plan on simple steps we can do, because we need to personalize this problem? We need to pitch in.

Thank you, Mr. Hawkins. The honourable Premier, Mr. Handley.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. That is a question I believe should be more appropriately directed to the Minister of RWED. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Handley. Minister of Resources, Wildlife and Economic Development, Mr. Bell.

Further Return To Question 338-15(3): Government Consumption Of Fuels And Power

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I think the Member is referring specifically to our ability to reject the costs that it will have internally for our own GNWT assets. We do have a program that the Minister of Finance referred to yesterday, the Energy Conservation Program. This program does provide financial assistance to territorial and community-funded departments, boards, agencies, non-profits, to undertake capital projects that will result in long-term reductions in the usage of electricity, heat, energy, water, et cetera. I think it is a very good program. There are a number of examples that have been funded and are usually funded in partnership.

The organization has to come forward with some equity as well, but in the areas of lighting, space heating, ventilation, and issues to deal with building envelope, the servicing of water, electrical systems, I think there have been many good initiatives. The goal here is to reduce our reliance on fossil fuels and to make sure we are doing things as efficiently as we possibly can. I think the Member has already indicated that we have a very difficult time projecting what the cost of fuel will be. One thing we know for sure is if we can lessen our reliance on it, Mr. Speaker, we are in better shape, and we are aiming to do that. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Bell. Supplementary, Mr. Hawkins.

Supplementary To Question 338-15(3): Government Consumption Of Fuels And Power

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. If all three Ministers are going to be dealing with this, maybe I will send my next question to the Premier. Mr. Speaker, I am not sure if we just continue to direct it to the Minister of Finance or what. I look for direction, but I will direct it to the Minister of Finance and allow you to redirect it as appropriate. Mr. Speaker, we need to tighten our belts. That doesn’t cost money. Mr. Speaker, it has been mentioned that we use the Arctic Energy Alliance and we have been. We fund them through our programs. We can do this. I am not talking about expensive renovations, Mr. Speaker. Can the Minister of FMBS direct all departments to use Arctic Energy Alliance solutions to solve some of these crises? We can tighten our belts. It doesn’t cost thousands of dollars; it costs just a little time and effort. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Hawkins. Mr. Bell.

Further Return To Question 338-15(3): Government Consumption Of Fuels And Power

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I appreciate the support for the Arctic Energy Alliance. I think the Member makes a very good point. This is something that is funded by a couple of government departments and by the Power Corporation. I think there has been a lot of good work over the years and a lot of merit in continuing to work with this organization to find solutions, especially in the case of this organization, primarily on demand side issues. As a government, we recognize that we do need an energy plan, both for supply side and demand side issues. We will be moving that agenda forward.

I think the Arctic Energy Alliance can play a key role in this regard. We certainly look forward to the advice of the GED committee on issues that relate to energy and this conservation. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Bell. Your final supplementary, Mr. Hawkins.

Supplementary To Question 338-15(3): Government Consumption Of Fuels And Power

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, what is the plan to deal with these increasing power bills and oil bills? Is it just to pay after the fact, or is there any plan to mitigate that potential significant bill that will be increased this year? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Hawkins. Mr. Bell.

Further Return To Question 338-15(3): Government Consumption Of Fuels And Power

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I think the Member knows, from the discussion at committee, that the Power Corporation, for instance, has been working on issues related to hydro development and other renewable sources of energy. This is around the theme of trying to lessen our reliance on fossil fuels. In some regard, we are hostage in the short term to the crisis of oil. There is not a lot we can do in the very short run to lessen that reliance. I think, as the Member heard yesterday, the Finance Minister has sent out a directive to departments to come forward to make sure that they update the projections because of the cost of oil which is very volatile, but to do their best to come forward with some understanding of the impact that this will have. We will have that discussion in Cabinet. We saw recently $55 a barrel for oil. It has come back a little bit to $50. It dropped some $2 a barrel yesterday with the announcement on something that seems as fickle to us as an indication from China that they will be raising interest rates going forward to cool off their economy somewhat. I think this speaks to how interlinked and interwoven these issues are on a global basis. It’s very difficult for us to influence the price of a barrel of oil but, as I’ve indicated earlier, we can do as much as possible to lessen our reliance. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, my questions are for Minister Roland with respect to the Territorial Power Support Program to offset the high cost of power in the communities that are on diesel generated power. Mr. Speaker, this program has been in place for a while now and it is an attempt to level the rates for the small communities. I believe for residential consumers it’s to bring the rates down on the first 700 kilowatts of power consumed in a month, and for small business for the first 1,000 kilowatts of power used. Mr. Speaker, I would like to know what the government has done to prepare and anticipate for there being a rise in the cost of this subsidy program in view of anticipated riders because of the high cost of fuel, if the government has built this into their financial plans. Thank you.

Thank you, Mrs. Groenewegen. The honourable Minister responsible for FMBS, Mr. Roland.

Return To Question 339-15(3): Territorial Power Support Program

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the area of the Territorial Power Support Program, as the Member stated, is to try to even out the cost of providing power to residents of the Northwest Territories, and we have, over the last number of years, been increasing the amount because of the growth and demand -- more houses out there as well as people in the North. We feel, however, initially when we put the plans together that there was no anticipation of such a jump in the price of oil, hopefully it will continue to come down somewhat. A lot of it depends on when fuel was purchased and how that falls out in the next resupply and having that impact, and then we would have to look at making possible further adjustments.

For this year we have estimated that we would be fairly close to the previous year's targets. For example, in 2003-2004 the Territorial Power Support Program cost in the area of $7.2 million. That is something that we are concerned with, in earlier questions yesterday as well as today, about what can we do. It is fairly difficult to try to plan ahead if we are not sure, for example, a rate rider going forward will get approved. So that makes it a bit more difficult to try and project some of those changes. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Roland. Supplementary, Mrs. Groenewegen.

Supplementary To Question 339-15(3): Territorial Power Support Program

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, with regard to the Territorial Power Support Program, as well, because the rate is already set, the consumption of subsidized power is set at 700 and 1,000, as I previously mentioned. Anything exceeding that is going to, if the rate for power goes up, impact residents and businesses quite significantly. I’m wondering if the Minister has given any contemplation to how we might address that. Has the Territorial Power Support Program been reviewed lately to find out if those are realistic levels; 700 and 1,000? When was the last time the Territorial Power Support Program was reviewed for adequacy? Thank you.

Thank you, Mrs. Groenewegen. Two questions there, Mr. Roland, you can answer one or both.

Further Return To Question 339-15(3): Territorial Power Support Program

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the work that we do on an annual basis in preparing for budgets and so on, we do look at the rates as they are and the impact that they would have, more for a budgeting process. I don’t have information offhand as to when the actual work was done on looking at the 700 kilowatt hours per month or the 1,000 kilowatt for small business. We haven’t done that work since we took office. It is something that we have to keep in mind; if we change those we also change the cost drivers in that. If it is something the Members of the House would like us to do a review on, we can look at doing that. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Roland. Supplementary, Mrs. Groenewegen.

Supplementary To Question 339-15(3): Territorial Power Support Program

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, I think it would be a very good time to do a review of that. I don’t think that the territorial power support program is adequate when it comes to the support for small business. We hear this from the small communities and, of course, this always precipitates discussion about a single-rate zone. Mr. Speaker, I have my own thoughts as to whether or not applying a single-rate zone is the solution to this problem. I think that there are other things that could be done. The one gap I recognize is with the small business support. Could the Minister please indicate what that costs and what kind of uptake there is on that for small business? I think it is very inadequate, but what kind of uptake in cost is there? Thank you.

Thank you, Mrs. Groenewegen. Mr. Roland.

Further Return To Question 339-15(3): Territorial Power Support Program

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the subsidy we have for small business is 1,000 kilowatt hours per month at the subsidized rate, but beyond that then it is full cost recovery in the sense of the rates themselves. We know that it’s out there, it’s an application-based program. I don’t have the actual percentages right now, but it has been discussed and we know that it depends on the amount of income businesses have on an annual basis if they qualify or not. The uptake hasn’t been as high and it fluctuates on a year-to-year basis, but I will get the information for the Member. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Roland. Final supplementary, Mrs. Groenewegen.

Supplementary To Question 339-15(3): Territorial Power Support Program

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Would the Minister commit to taking a look at this territorial power support program, perhaps even working with Members on this side of the House to address this? I think it’s very timely right now, I think it’s fairly safe to say that there are going to be some price riders coming into effect, and I think particularly we need to address the business support. I think that the cost of running a business in small communities is hindering economic development and I see this as a good solution. Will the Minister commit to coming forward with a process and a plan to review these subsidies? Thank you.

Thank you, Mrs. Groenewegen. Mr. Roland.

Further Return To Question 339-15(3): Territorial Power Support Program

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I think in the whole area of energy and the impacts on our government, this program is one of those that would be a good thing to sit down with Members of this Assembly and go through to see if there are changes that we can make within the fiscal environment we operate in as well. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My question today is for the Minister of Resources, Wildlife and Economic Development. I just wanted to ask the Minister with regard to the federal northern strategy funding that came from DIAND earlier this year, at what stage is that funding in our system, so to speak, Mr. Speaker? Thank you very much.

Thank you, Mr. Menicoche. The Minister of Resources, Wildlife and Economic Development, Mr. Bell.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Just to apologize, I would like some clarity from the Member. I am wondering if the Member is referring to the Northern Economic Development Strategy money, the $90 million that was referred to in the Throne speech. If that is the case, I can get into some detail. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Bell. Mr. Menicoche, do you want to clarify your question?

Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. The Minister is absolutely correct; that was my reference in the question earlier.

Thank you, Mr. Menicoche. Mr. Bell.

Return To Question 340-15(3): Availability Of Federal Economic Development Strategy Funding

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. This is something that I have been having a fair amount of discussion on and the department has been working on for a number of months now with the DIAND officials. There is a Northern Development Ministers’ meeting being held in Chibougamou, Quebec, right now that I wasn’t able to attend because of session, but my deputy minister is there in attendance, working with the two Ministers from the other territories, Ministers Kenyon and Simailak. They are in agreement on several fundamental principles as to how this money should role out. We have communicated those to the federal government, to the DIAND Minister and to Minister Ethel Blondin-Andrew who has responsibility for this program. The $90 million we feel there was some discussion about doing some funding announcements and trying to role out at least $10 million of that between the three territories this year. We’ve had further discussion, it’s been taking awhile to get project approvals. I think we are at the point now where we would prefer to see us go forward April 1st with the whole $90 million, hold the $10 million this year. It would be very difficult for us to spend that $10 million effectively before year end, so our preference would be to talk about a $90 million strategy next year.

In addition, we are not interested in new administrative mechanisms or regimes that would talk about and determine the rollout of this money. All three territories have economic development agencies that are more than capable of handling this money. We would like to see bilateral deals with the federal government and see us make the decisions on the programs as opposed to a policy committee in Ottawa.

So those are several of the things that we are discussing now and we are hoping that we will have an announcement from Minister Ethel Blondin-Andrew soon in this regard. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Bell. Supplementary, Mr. Menicoche.

Supplementary To Question 340-15(3): Availability Of Federal Economic Development Strategy Funding

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like to thank the Minister for providing an adequate breakdown of where we’re at with the process. My other concern, Mr. Speaker, is that the priorities are northern priorities and not direction from Ottawa where to spend the funding that they have allocated for us, for this year or, indeed, if, as the Minister says, that we start allocating on April 1, 2005. I just want to get assurances from the Minister that any of the priorities will be priorities. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Menicoche. Mr. Bell.

Further Return To Question 340-15(3): Availability Of Federal Economic Development Strategy Funding

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. That is certainly our position. The federal government had sought to, as I had mentioned, have a policy committee in Ottawa to determine which projects could qualify for this money. We don’t feel that is adequate. We feel those decisions need to be made in the North. We are prepared to defer the $10 million that would need to be spent this year in a very quick manner, we don’t think effectively, probably, and talk about the $90 million going forward. But that would be based on decisions made in the Northwest Territories for the Northwest Territories, and likewise for Nunavut and the Yukon.

I think the longer-term solution here is a northern economic development agency much the same as Western Economic Diversification or Atlantic Opportunities. We’ve been pushing that and the federal Minister, Minister Ethel Blondin-Andrew, certainly seems to like the idea as well. Having said that, we don’t want to see this $90 million held up as we work towards the formalization of such an organization. So we think that a northern economic development agency is a long-term solution for the $90 million over the next few years. We want to see those decisions made in the respective territories. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Bell. Supplementary, Mr. Menicoche.

Supplementary To Question 340-15(3): Availability Of Federal Economic Development Strategy Funding

Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. I guess once we identify ourselves as say an economic development agreement or a similar type region, what typically happens with a lot of these agreements is that we offer low interest loans or even no interest loans to stimulate the businesses, Mr. Speaker. I was wondering if the Minister had had any thoughts towards that area in terms of this strategy, in terms of stimulating our regions and our businesses. Thank you very much.

Thank you, Mr. Menicoche. Mr. Bell.

Further Return To Question 340-15(3): Availability Of Federal Economic Development Strategy Funding

The delivery mechanism I think that we have in mind, should it be successful in getting through the House and getting support of Members, is the new BDIC which will have regionally-focused program delivery. Largely the mechanisms used to deliver economic development lending and programs in the regions now would be those going forward, at least initially. I think there will be some evolution and some progression there as regions and communities gain the capability to deliver the programming themselves.

But we think as a transition, it would make sense to keep the current mechanisms in place and our idea would be to see our $30 million, or whatever our percentage of this money, go through the BDIC and make sure the regions are involved. Those in fact are the people who have their ear to the ground and are working with people in communities and understand the needs in these communities. It would be my preference that those are the ones reviewing projects.

Low interest loans are certainly a very good idea. I think we are more likely to look at loans as compared to contributions or grants, because we can make and stretch loans farther, especially if we are able to partner with other federal agencies, with Aboriginal Business Canada, and make our money go further and help more people. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Bell. Final Supplementary, Mr. Menicoche.

Supplementary To Question 340-15(3): Availability Of Federal Economic Development Strategy Funding