Debates of October 29, 2004 (day 31)

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I just want to get clarification from the Minister. Did the Minister say that some of the money would be earmarked towards the business development centres in the regions? Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Menicoche. Mr. Bell

Further Return To Question 340-15(3): Availability Of Federal Economic Development Strategy Funding

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. All this is predicated on us getting a successful agreement with the federal government. In the end, the $90 million is federal money and they could determine that there are strings to be attached or that there are criteria to be met. We have given them our preference and our suggestions; we think they are strong because the three territories are in agreement. We hope that they will see the merit in doing it in this manner. At this point I don’t have enough detail to tell the Member exactly the mechanism that we would use, other than to say if we get our hands on this money, the regions will certainly be involved in program delivery. It doesn’t make any sense to have headquarters making determinations on the viability and validity of projects in the regions when they are not in fact there working with people on a day-to-day basis. So it will be regional program delivery, and I will certainly commit to that. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, my questions today are for the Minister of Health and Social Services, the Honourable Michael Miltenberger. I go back to my Member's statement when I spoke of coroner's jury recommendations on the fact that the Northwest Territories and the city of Yellowknife needs a medical detox facility. I don’t know if the government and the Minister do not pay heed to coroner's juries or Regular Members, and I know it was an issue in the 14th Assembly and I know it’s an issue in the 15th Assembly, Mr. Speaker. I am wondering what it is going to take for the Minister of Health and Social Services and this government to get a dedicated detox facility in the Northwest Territories. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay. The honourable Minister of Health and Social Services, Mr. Miltenberger.

Return To Question 341-15(3): Need For A Medical Detoxification Facility

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, for the record, I would like to note clearly that we pay very close attention to the reports from the chief coroner, and in fact we respond in detail to all the recommendations that pertain to Health and Social Services, as I did on January 20, 2003, and July 14, 2003, in regards to the two inquests and the findings. Both those referenced medical detox. I welcome the debate in this House and hopefully outside of this House the discussion about addictions and the best way to deal with addictions. We have chartered off on a course of action through our Mental Health and Addictions Strategy.

With regard to the medical detox, given our planning, given our fiscal realities, we are working with the four facilities -- Stanton, Hay River, Inuvik and Fort Smith -- to identify the number of beds in each facility to do medical detox. Clearly, Stanton, with its superior level of capacity and capability, will be the one where other patients would come to after they are initially stabilized in other communities. So we do have some capacity and that has been the approach we have taken, as opposed to going ahead to build a standalone medical detox centre. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger. Supplementary, Mr. Ramsay.

Supplementary To Question 341-15(3): Need For A Medical Detoxification Facility

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I would like to ask the Minister how come the Northwest Territories does not have a withdrawal management unit currently in place and, Mr. Speaker, if I could, what specifically, if a person is addicted to crack cocaine, are their alternatives in seeking treatment in the Northwest Territories? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay. Mr. Miltenberger.

Further Return To Question 341-15(3): Need For A Medical Detoxification Facility

Mr. Speaker, as I indicated, we have capacity at Stanton to do medical detoxification for alcohol and drugs. That’s what we have in place. It is not a formal withdrawal management unit but it is the capacity that we do have. There is also a social withdrawal program that is run through the Salvation Army and some local groups like Crack Busters that have started. If there is further more dedicated treatment, then we would be looking to southern jurisdictions if that is what is required, as we have done on a client-by-client basis so far. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger. Supplementary, Mr. Ramsay.

Supplementary To Question 341-15(3): Need For A Medical Detoxification Facility

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I would like to ask the Minister, when he talks of having a look at the facilities that are currently in place, what is his intention on getting a withdrawal management unit? To me, that only makes sense, Mr. Speaker, and I would like to ask the Minister, when is the withdrawal management unit going to be set up here so that addicts have somewhere to turn? Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay. Mr. Miltenberger.

Further Return To Question 341-15(3): Need For A Medical Detoxification Facility

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. As I indicated in one of my previous answers, I welcome this debate and discussion. If there is a concern with the plan that was agreed to previously in terms of mental health and addictions, and there is a need to amend it after two years of having it in place, then I am prepared to look at that through the work with the Social Programs committee. As all the Members know, we have to plan around any kind of capital expenditures that may be decided on or agreed to and look at the capacity of the current facilities and the resources and the manpower. So if there is a clear indication that we are looking for a change, then, as Minister of Health and Social Services, I am prepared to work with the committee and the communities and stakeholders to see where we can get the resources and try to adjust it. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger. Your final supplementary, Mr. Ramsay.

Supplementary To Question 341-15(3): Need For A Medical Detoxification Facility

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the treatment centre in Yellowknife closed in 1999. It has been an issue since the closure of that treatment centre, Mr. Speaker. I know the Minister welcomes a debate, but this was brought up two, three and four years ago, and still the government hasn’t addressed the need for a treatment centre. If there is a will on this side of the House, Mr. Speaker, to look at a treatment centre for Yellowknife, I am wondering if the Minister will be responsive and will see to that happening. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay. Mr. Miltenberger.

Further Return To Question 341-15(3): Need For A Medical Detoxification Facility

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I would argue that we have responded, maybe not to the Member’s satisfaction or to the degree that he would think acceptable, but as we balance the many priorities, dementia units, shortage of housing, the fact that we have a budget that has to meet its fiscal targets that have been set by the Minister of FMBS, that we have responded. We responded in the best way we can with the resources we have. If there is an interest, as I have indicated, I am prepared to sit down and talk to the Members. I am prepared to talk to the stakeholders and the communities and see what resources we could possibly reprofile or what case can be made for any kind of improvement in services, but we have made our best efforts, I believe. Thank you.

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. My question is also directed to the Minister of Health and Social Services with regards to the lack of medical detox facilities in Yellowknife and other communities. I just want to ask the Minister if he can tell us, the Members, and the public in general, in the five-year capital acquisition plan of the GNWT, going up to 2008 or 2009, there is approximately $60 million that is allocated for capital infrastructure requirements. That is not counting all this extra money that they are getting out of the federal government when the new health care reform comes through. I am just wondering if the Minister would consider or why is he not considering putting a formal medical detox centre on the capital acquisition plan in the next five years. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Villeneuve. The honourable Minister of Health and Social Services, Mr. Miltenberger.

Return To Question 342-15(3): Planning For A Medical Detoxification Facility

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I am prepared to have that debate about the best approach, the numbers, the need, and is it the best course of action and the best investment to build a separate, standalone facility, or is it best to look at expanding the service at Stanton, and what is possible in Hay River, Inuvik and Fort Smith. The money that is allocated in the capital plan is clearly identified for urgent capital projects across the Northwest Territories. We have yet to find out the final numbers of what is available from the federal government for the new health care money. When that comes in, of course, we will be considering this issue along with many others in terms of how to best spend whatever funds may be available. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger. Supplementary, Mr. Villeneuve.

Supplementary To Question 342-15(3): Planning For A Medical Detoxification Facility

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I am not sure really what the Minister’s sense of urgency is, but, to me, I think this is a very urgent matter, and I think it is something that should be a real priority for the Department of Health on healing facilities and treatment programs that are available to residents, especially residents of Yellowknife that already have a large influx of people coming in all the time every year and the population is steadily growing. With regard to one of the facilities that does offer some kind of assistance to people who are looking for treatment for their addictions, there is the Salvation Army. I know that the clients who are treated over there are treated through referrals by corrections services and the self-admitted people who are going there for treatment on their own is double that, but there is no funding allocated for that and there is no funding provided by this government for the self-admitting program. I was just wondering if the Minister could let me know and the other Members and the public know why, if he is looking at outside sources of treatment and not a standalone system, why doesn’t the government provide more funding, or any funding for that matter, for that program. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Villeneuve. Mr. Miltenberger.

Further Return To Question 342-15(3): Planning For A Medical Detoxification Facility

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, in fact, we do have arrangements with the Salvation Army. In fact, the Salvation Army now is approved for medical travel as well, which it hasn’t been in the past. I would be happy to provide the Members the detail of the various contractual arrangements we have with the Salvation Army. I would also like to acknowledge the work that they do, and that they are a very valuable resource. We are relying on them more and more because of their skills and abilities. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger. Supplementary, Mr. Villeneuve.

Supplementary To Question 342-15(3): Planning For A Medical Detoxification Facility

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I don’t know what kind of new contractual arrangements the government made with the Salvation Army, but I was speaking with the program director yesterday. She just informed me that all of the people who are self-admitted won’t get any funding for this and neither does the Tree of Peace. There was an announcement in this House last year recognizing the Salvation Army as a legitimate treatment centre, and they even received a letter just confirming that recognition, but I would be glad to see that the Minister is going to provide some information with regard to what kind of contractual arrangements that they have been ironing out over the past year.

Just with respect to the Somba K’e Healing Centre that was shut down in 1999, Mr. Speaker, and has been closed for a few years now, I know that this government still pays the mortgage on that facility, which has been sitting empty for a number of years now. I was just talking with the ex-manager who used to run that place. He was given assurances by the Department of Health and Social Services that this place wouldn’t close. They closed it six months later. I just want to know what the Minister is planning on doing to maybe revisit the issue and revisit the possibility of renovating it, not spending an exorbitant amount of money, but I think that it is something to consider.

Thank you, Mr. Villeneuve. Mr. Miltenberger.

Further Return To Question 342-15(3): Planning For A Medical Detoxification Facility

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, my recollection of the history of the Somba K’e is that they had an arrangement with Corrections Canada that was severed and that they were looking around for an alternate way to get funding. We did look at the facility. We did have people take a look at it from a technical and structural point of view initially for the possibility of a childcare facility. What came back was a number to bring the building up to appropriate code both structurally and from a program point of view of over $3 million, which exceeded the budget we had available to do renovations at the current facility. So we did take a look at that. I had a number of meetings with the Member for Weledeh and the board members from Somba K’e to look at an alternate use and what could be done to try to assist them in putting that facility to productive use. So we have made our efforts. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger. A very short supplementary, Mr. Villeneuve.

Supplementary To Question 342-15(3): Planning For A Medical Detoxification Facility

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I guess maybe what I am looking at with the new funding arrangements this government has been coming across now with this new election in place and stuff, I am just wondering if the Minister can give the public some indication as to his commitment to see that this problem is near epidemic and is not going to escalate any more than what it’s coming to right now and that he will look into the possibility of having a standalone management facility that deals strictly with that drug addiction. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Villeneuve. Mr. Miltenberger.

Further Return To Question 342-15(3): Planning For A Medical Detoxification Facility

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the term “near epidemic” has been used a number of times. I have seen it in the press, as well. The suggestion is that our response is going to be to just try to fix people once they are addicted. I would suggest that that is an incomplete response, that, very clearly, with the influx of drugs, there has to be a comprehensive response, trying to limit access, trying to convince people not to use it, trying to crack down on the people who are selling it as opposed to just focusing the attention on accepting the reality and let’s just try to fix people once they are addicted. I don’t think that is the intent of anybody in this House. I think we need that kind of broad discussion to look at that kind of comprehensive response. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like to ask my questions to the Minister of Health in his capacity and his responsibilities as Minister of Health and not a fixer of everything. Mr. Speaker, I want to talk about the addiction and not necessarily just on the preventative measures, which is important as he has indicated, but I want to deal with the fixing side of it, which I believe the Minister is responsible for. Mr. Speaker, given the amount of problems we have with drug use and alcohol addiction, I really believe that we should be at the forefront, and we should have our own treatment centre and treatment program that should be used as an example around the world and the country. Nobody really knows what we have, Mr. Speaker.

This is the situation. The government is paying for maintenance and the mortgage of Somba K’e. The government is paying $600,000 to $800,000 a year for southern treatment. The government talks about strengthening their mental health and addiction workers. I tell you, this has been a complete disaster. The bureaucratic tape has made it so that this position has not been filled in many communities. Second of all, the clinic unit in Stanton is severely short staffed. They have talked to the administrative managers of the hospital about it. They are not recruiting. They have stopped their advertising. This is the kind of commitment the Minister has in terms of dealing with addiction. Could the Minister indicate why he is failing to even staff the division at the hospital? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

---Applause

Thank you, Ms. Lee. The Minister of Health and Social Services, the Honourable Mr. Miltenberger.

Return To Question 343-15(3): Staffing Addictions Treatment Positions

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, my job as Minister is to try to come up with some plans to, in a careful way, implement those plans after there has been proper consultation. We have done that with the mental health and addiction strategy. We responded to a fairly damning report in a state of emergency. We have committed to following the plan. We have implemented year one, year two. Year three is on the books. The Member now stands up in this House to say it has been a disaster. Let’s change that. I am saying, okay, if that is what you are thinking, then let’s have that discussion; an informed discussion. Let’s get the statistics. Let’s look at the need. Let’s get past the political rhetoric, the extreme adjectives, and take a measure to look at this. We are talking about a process that is going to require time of committee to do that. I’ve made that commitment before, and I just restate that. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger. Supplementary, Ms. Lee.

Supplementary To Question 343-15(3): Staffing Addictions Treatment Positions

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the Minister keeps talking about let’s have this debate. Well, I don’t know if he is trying to have this in his dreams or not, or in his sleep. I am telling him, Mr. Speaker, the debate is right now. I am asking him very specific questions. I am not making any political rhetoric. I am telling him, Mr. Speaker, that his time for planning and his favourite words and careful measured steps to plan are over. I am telling him, I am not saying the whole strategy is a disaster, but his implementation of it, we do not have mental health and addiction workers completed because of the way that it was done, and there are vacancies at the Stanton clinic. The Salvation Army and the Tree of Peace need these professionals at the hospital to deal with this clinical situation. They are suffering from vacancies. They are asking the Minister and the administrators to hire them, and they haven’t. So why is the Minister not doing anything about that? These are very specific…

Thank you, Ms. Lee. I heard a question there. Mr. Miltenberger.

Further Return To Question 343-15(3): Staffing Addictions Treatment Positions

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the Member makes comments that tend to diminish the work of people in the communities that have been working for years in the field -- wellness workers, addiction workers -- writing them all off as a disgrace, a waste of time, a disaster, it is not happening. Well, it is happening. Yes, there have been problems unfolding this and rolling it out and staffing all of the positions, but we have had more success than we have had failure in terms of staffing, and we are going to continue to work at it. We are going to continue to work at staffing all of the positions that are funded. If the Member is saying build us a new facility now because she stood up and said that is what she thinks should be done, I am prepared to talk about that, but there is a process, as she well knows, as the Members well know, as they have just taken us recently to severe task about how we spend money. I am prepared to look at it. If there is agreement and there is a planning process that leads to a facility, then I am prepared to engage in that discussion. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger. Supplementary, Ms. Lee.

Supplementary To Question 343-15(3): Staffing Addictions Treatment Positions

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Unless the Minister is mixing me up with the Member for Tu Nedhe or the Member for Kam Lake, I have not mentioned a word about building a treatment centre. I asked very specific questions. There are at least two key positions at the clinical mental health unit at the hospital that are vacant. They have stopped advertising for those positions. They are not recruiting, and the recruiter is no longer in office. As far as I am aware, there is minimal effort to rehire those units. I am asking a very specific question about service delivery here. I think the Minister knows this; my understanding is that the Salvation Army and the Tree of Peace are doing most of the delivery for the government and the professionals there. So why is the Minister falling behind in keeping that staff intact? I am not saying anything about the building to Almighty sitting over there.

Thank you, Ms. Lee. Mr. Miltenberger.

Further Return To Question 343-15(3): Staffing Addictions Treatment Positions

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I would like to assure the Member that I would never ever confuse her with anybody else.

---Laughter

She doesn’t have to refer to me as Almighty; Michael is fine.

---Laughter

She has raised a very specific issue from her information that she has obtained, so I will commit to follow up on the particulars of the two positions, but I would once again suggest that it is not because people don’t care, we have written it off, it is a waste of time. I would suggest that efforts are being made. There is funding for those positions for a reason, because those positions are needed. As the Minister, I am going to commit that they are needed and we will take the necessary steps to staff them, if they are vacant.

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger. Your final supplementary, Ms. Lee.

Supplementary To Question 343-15(3): Staffing Addictions Treatment Positions

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I think if we learned anything this week it is that our Members on this side are being chastised all the time for raising totally legitimate questions. Mr. Speaker, the Minister has not answered the question. I would like him to commit to seeing to do a better job to hire all of the mental health and addictions workers in the communities, because there are a lot of vacancies there and they are the key part to dealing with this community-wide and NWT-wide problem. Thank you.

Thank you, Ms. Lee. Mr. Miltenberger.

Further Return To Question 343-15(3): Staffing Addictions Treatment Positions