Agreed.
---Carried
Thank you, Minister, and thank you to your witnesses. SergeantatArms, please escort the witnesses from the Chamber.
Committee, we've agreed to consider Committee Report 1719(2), report on the review of Bill 23, an Act to Amend the Public Utilities Act. I will go to the chair of the Standing Committee on Government Operations for any opening comments. Member for Yellowknife North.
Thank you, Madam Chair. Our report was previously read into the record so I don't have any substantive comments to add to the report; however, individual Members may have comments on the report and its recommendations. I'd just like to thank the committee for their commitment and hard work on this report.
Thank you. I will now open the floor to general comments on the Committee Report 1719(2), Report on the Review of Bill 23, an Act to Amend the Public Utilities Act. Questions, comments? Member for Kam Lake.
Yeah, thank you very much, Madam Chair. And as the Member for Yellowknife North said, we did already read an extensive report into the House but I just wanted to start off by saying thank you to the Member who did bring this bill forward, and while committee did not reach consensus on a path forward, I do agree that the Member did bring forward a bill for the purpose of fixing a substantial issue in the Northwest Territories, and that relates back to everyone having the right to safe and secure housing and being able to have a warm house at that. And so I think that the issues that are brought up by the Member for Nunakput are very important ones that need to be addressed, and so I look forward to the response from the government. Thank you.
Thank you, Member for Kam Lake. Member for Frame Lake.
Thanks, Madam Chair. I sat in on the committee hearing and some of the deliberations that they had on the private Member's bill. I think it's probably fair to well, let me start by saying up until two or three years ago, I didn't even know what a limiter was. So a little bit of privilege I guess there. But I was very surprised to learn that we these things were here in the Northwest Territories and that people sort of had to live with this reality of if they go into arrears, utility can install a limiter that turns their power on for 15 minutes and then turns it off for 15 minutes. And I don't know how people live with that. So I guess I have some sympathy with getting rid of limiters, but limiters are really the symptom of a deeper problem, and it really relates to housing, but also I think poor communications from the utilities themselves. I guess I think that the Public Utilities Board, can't really tell them what to do, but might provide some clearer direction in that area as well. And just did a complete disconnect between income assistance and public housing as well.
In the last Assembly, we went through a well, not that I supported it a fairly extensive cost cutting exercise. And one of the things that I recall, and I may not get all of the details right, but the Housing Corporation was providing subsidized power rates in public housing units, and what happened was that they wanted to try to I think get rid of some of those expenses, so to speak, but they also wanted tenants to become more energy-conservation friendly, I guess is a nice way to put it, in terms of energy consumption in their units.
So we made a move to get rid of the subsidized power in public housing and shift the burden to the residents, the public housing tenants themselves, which I think has probably resulted in some increase in arrears in utility and the use of limiters now. So sometimes cutting costs has some pretty unintended consequences or things that we may not foresee.
So in any event, I don't think that the bill resolves the underlying problems, and think committee was struggling with a way to try to do that and came up with, I think, some good recommendations to try to deal with this issue that does, really, come down to poverty and housing. And I want to commend the committee for the work on it.
Also did some looking at other jurisdictions, and I came up with some ideas, and I think you'll see those reflected in the recommendations that came forward in the committee's report. So I want to commend the committee for doing a lot of hard work and trying to think this through, and I think they've come up with some good recommendations. Thanks, Madam Chair.
Member for Frame Lake. Member for Great Slave.
Thank you, Madam Chair. I too wanted to thank the committee for this work. My heart says to support the removal of limiters, but then when the fiscal realities come in and you know, the counterpoints are made, it's hard to make the decision one way or the other. So I do really appreciate the committee focusing on the state of the homes.
As I've lived longer and longer in the North and become more aware as an engineer and in the course work I've taken, I realize how poorly our homes are equipped in the North and our buildings are equipped in the North to deal with our extreme climate. So I did think that was a really key point, that we are, you know, punishing people where they need to have their oven on because they don't have the heating in their unit's not working properly. So I'm assuming that it costs a lot more to run that oven than maybe to do the power. So, yeah, I just wanted to say again I thank you, the committee, for their hard work, and I do agree with the recommendations. Thank you.
Thank you, Member. Any further comments? Seeing no comments. Mr. Johnson.
Madam Chair, I move that this committee recommends the Department of Education, Culture and Employment work with the Northwest Territories Housing Corporation to address potential barriers that can cause higher electricity bills for people on income assistance in housing units.
Madam Chair, this should include reviewing the 2018 policy change that transferred more responsibility for electricity consumption from the Northwest Territories Housing Corporation to tenants; and, whether this change resulted in increased income assistance from Education, Culture and Employment or an increased number of customers in arrears on their power bills and the value of those arrears. Thank you, Madam Chair.
The motion is in order. To the motion? Member for Frame Lake.
Thanks, Madam Chair. Just reminded me that there was one other factor that I think led to the 2018 policy change that's highlighted in this recommendation, and that's the fact that the Housing Corporation was paying corporate rates for electricity as opposed to residential rates and the corporate rates, I think, are, like, two I might not even get the right number, but it's two or three times higher than what residential rates were. So, again, this was about trying to cut the Housing Corporation costs in some measure. So that was the other thing that was driving this, was the different rates that have been set, which probably need another look. Thanks, Madam Chair.
Thank you.
Question.
Question has been called. All those in favor? All those opposed? The motion is carried.
---Carried
Mr. Johnson.
Madam Chair, I move that this committee recommends that the Northwest Territories Housing Corporation ensure that all its housing units have fit for habitation such that tenants are not forced to reserve resort to improvised methods to regulate the temperature of their homes. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you. The motion is in order. To the motion?
Question.
Question has been called. All those in favor? All those opposed? Abstentions? The motion is carried.
---Carried
Mr. Johnson.
Madam Chair, I move that this committee recommends that the Northwest Territories Housing Corporation conduct a review of all household appliances, heating equipment, water heaters, and lighting products in housing units to ensure they meet current federal energy efficiency standards. Thank you, Madam Chair.
The motion is in order. To the motion?
Question.
Question has been called. All those in favor? All those opposed? Abstentions? The motion is carried.
---Carried
Mr. Johnson.
Madam Chair, I move that this committee recommends that the Public Utilities Board work with the Northwest Territories Power Corporation and Northland Utilities to consider and study the implementation of a customer crisis fund modelled after BC's Hydro's Customer Crisis Fund to provide grant payments to residential customers experiencing a temporary financial crisis and who have fallen into arrears. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you. The motion is in order. To the motion? Member for Frame Lake.
To the mover.
Member for Yellowknife North.
Thank you, Madam Chair. So I think committee received a lot of concerns that in order to get rid of power limiters, that was a tool that the utilities did not have to collect, and then further arrears would then be passed on to ratepayers. And in many ways, this recommendation that everybody preemptively get an extra charge on their bill for a customer crisis fund just to create some transparency to if you have arrears, ratepayers are going to pay for them anyway so why don't we provide some guidance and a clear way, path forward, that if someone lost their job or is in a very a crisis state they could apply to get a grant. And I think this is the cleanest way to do it, to make sure we know exactly who is falling into arrears and when we can help them as opposed to the current state which is some people have massive arrears and deficits on their power bill which ultimately are being passed on to ratepayers.
So I do support this recommendation. I expect it also may get some pushback when people see a little crisis fund on all of their bills, but I think preemptively, this is the best way to solve the problem. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Member for Yellowknife North. Member for Frame Lake.
Thanks, Madam Chair. Yeah, I support this recommendation as well. And I just want to highlight the recommendation calls for the Public Utilities Board to work with the two utilities here. You know, I don't know exactly what the Public Utilities Board does, but as I understand it, the Minister responsible for the Public Utilities Board or Cabinet could issuing binding policy direction to set up this crisis fund. And I think that's something that I'd want my colleagues across the way to think about. And of course, you're going to respond to this if it passes, and but you have the ability to issue that binding policy direction.
The concept of this is really not that much different than 911, you know, in that people do pay an extra bit on your phone bills to support 911. And this would help people that need help.
So the other example I would use is, at least in Yellowknife, we pay a little surcharge on our water bills so that if there's a break between the foundation of your home and the main line in the middle of the street, it gets covered. There's a deductible amount but it's a similar kind of concept.
So this is not breaking new ground by any measure, even here in the Northwest Territories. And also, again, I want to urge my Cabinet colleagues to consider issuing binding policy direction on this when it passes. Thanks, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Member for Frame Lake. To the motion?
Question.
Question has been called. All those in favor? All those opposed? Abstentions? The motion is carried.
---Carried
Mr. Johnson.
Madam Chair, I move that this committee recommends that the Northwest Territories Power Corporation and Northland Utilities with oversight, if necessary enforcement from the Public Utilities Board, improve communications with customers so that they are clearer, more comprehensive, more proactive, and more clientcentered, especially with respect to:
eligibility for the income assistance program and how policy changes or new benefit programs like the Canada Recovery Benefit may impact customer eligibility;
The terms and conditions of service documents regarding details on the types and minimum timeframes of notices that NTPC may send to customers;
The type and operation of power limiters, and, customer payment options.
Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you. The motion is in order. To the motion?
Question.
Question has been called. All those in favor? All those opposed? Abstentions? The motion is carried.
---Carried
Mr. Johnson.
Madam Chair, I move that this committee recommends that the Government of the Northwest Territories provide a response to this report within 120 days. Thank you, Madam Chair.
The motion is in order. To the motion?
Question.
Question has been called. All those in favor? All those opposed? Abstentions? The motion is carried.
---Carried
Thank you, committee. Do you agree that you have concluded consideration of Committee Report 17-19(2) Report on the Review of Bill 23, An Act to Amend the Public Utilities Act.
Agreed
Thank you, committee. We have concluded consideration of Committee Report 1719(2), Report on the Review of Bill 23, an Act to Amend the Public Utilities Act. Member for Frame Lake.
