Thank you, Madam Chair. Can I get an explanation of what, I just want to fully understand this number, what capital is. So the budget for the Housing Corp is about $109 million, $10 million is for just capital. Does that mean this is only for new builds and anything to maintain units or bring them up to standard would be not capital? Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you. Minister of Housing.
Thank you, Madam Chair. The capital is for the retrofits that are listed on page 69 of the document. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you. Member for Yellowknife North.
Thank you, Madam Chair. Okay, so capital is for retrofits, and I actually see no new builds here. Is that correct, that the Housing Corp is planning to build no new houses?
Thank you, Member. Minister of Housing Corporation.
Thank you, Madam Chair. We did end up getting federal funding this year. We ended up with a coinvestment and the CIRNAC funding so we're able to put 90 new builds on the ground this year. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Minister. Member for Yellowknife North.
Thank you, Madam Chair. I believe there's a disconnect, and I'm trying to understand this number that shows up repeatedly. So the new units, I believe, are reflected in the revised estimates. That's why it's $60 million more, because the feds gave us $60 million and we're going to put housing units on the ground. But for 20222023, right now is the Housing Corp planning to build no new units; is that what this is? Thank you.
Thank you, Member. Minister.
Thank you, Madam Chair. We do have some new builds that are coming this year that are funded through the Housing Corporation, and I just you know, in respect of the Member's questions that, you know, we do acquire we did acquire a lot of federal funding this year, and it's it kind of gets confusing as well too because we are putting RCMP units on the ground as well too. So I'll have Jim elaborate on the response. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you. Mr. Martin.
Thank you, Madam Chair. Yeah, so as our Minister mentioned, the Housing Corporation does have a number of new construction projects underway this year. And they will be completed over the course of the next couple of years, mostly next year and this year, but there will be some in to 20232024. So there is certainly new construction activity going on outside this 20222023 capital plan that, as was noted, is focused on M and I investments for this year, given that we do have quite a sizable new construction delivery on at this time. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you. Member for Yellowknife North.
Thank you, Madam Chair. I just also want to understand, so every year the Housing Corp puts $10 million in here for M and I, you know, essentially retrofit and putting buildings up, which means it or is the other hundred are we just spending $100 million a year on O and M? There's $100 million a year to staff the Housing Corp and make sure the lights on being spent and only $10 million to actually upkeep units? Thank you.
Thank you. Minister of Housing Corporation.
Thank you, Madam Chair. We have a number of programming that we do. We do have within the department besides putting the new builds and trying to support homeownership and emergency repairs. I'll have Jim elaborate on the response as well too. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you. Mr. Martin.
Yeah, thank you, Madam Chair. Yes, as the Minister mentioned, we do have a number of other investments supporting housing programs and service delivery. This plan before you today is focused solely on capital investments and, as was noted, these typically are major retrofits, as we have here, as well as new construction projects planned for a particular year. And that meets the accounting test as well in terms of the capitaltype investments. But in terms of the O and M, you know, it is correct that we do have approximately $100 million of O and M typically planned for 20222023. And that includes minor M and I investments, for example. So these are the type of smaller repairs that our local housing organizations would support year to year for the Housing Corp. So there is definitely other investments taking place outside the capital plan. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you. Member for Yellowknife North.
Thank you, Madam Chair. Forgive me, I couldn't add up all the numbers here. How many in this fiscal sorry, I keep saying "this", I mean 20222023, the fiscal year we're approving, how many units are we planning to retrofit?
Thank you. Minister.
Just a second. I actually have that just in front of me. I'll just have Jim respond, sorry, thank you.
Thank you, Minister. Mr. Martin.
Thank you, Madam Chair. 176 units. Thank you.
Thank you. Member for Yellowknife North.
Thank you, Madam Chair. Can the Minister maybe just put that in context? You know, it sounds great that we're retrofitting 176 units. Where does that get us at the end of you know, assuming this fiscal we do that, how many more units would we anticipate need major retrofits? Is there a backlog. Can I just get some context of what $10 million in retrofits actually gets us with regards to the giant backlog of maintenance we need. Thank you.
Thank you. Minister.
Thank you, Madam Chair. This number is able to touch on what needs to be done, but in total, I'm have Jim respond. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you. Mr. Martin.
Thank you, Madam Chair. The 176 units investment, it's actually a larger M and I investment than we typically do in a run of a year. You typically would see about half M and I projects and then half new construction projects. But as noted, typically as noted, we have a fair amount of new construction investment going on in the current year, and that's why we're accelerating much needed repair investments for 20222023.
And there certainly is a backlog with the Housing Corp. We're refining our numbers of course but, you know, our tabletop exercises indicate, you know, a $40 million annual infrastructure deficit, and that's combining both new construction, replacement requirements, as well as major retrofits to extend the life of our units, and that is a 20year assessment number that I provided. And as I said, that is a tabletop number, and we'll continue to refine that number going forward. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you. Member for Yellowknife North.
Thank you, Madam Chair. I recognize that it's hard to just, you know, completely understand an infrastructure deficit. We all struggle to do that for the territory. But can I just get a bit more explanation on what, having a $40 million annual infrastructure deficit means. Does that mean if we actually wanted to maintain the current housing stock to a suitable standard, the Housing Corp would need another $40 million every single year? Thank you.
Thank you. Minister.
Thank you, Madam Chair. I will defer that answer to Jim, and it's just quite significant with the amount of assets that we do have on the ground and what we are able to repair and we're not able to repair. I'll have Jim respond. Thank you.
Thank you, Minister. Mr. Martin.
Thank you, Madam Chair. Yes, so ideally if we were able to do everything that we would like do in terms of capital investment, that is a number that we would like to invest every year to ensure the you know, the longterm sustainability of our assets and replace assets when we need to.
One thing to consider, though, is that right now, we do have on average about an 80 percent unit condition rating across the system, and that's a reflection of these M and I investments that are being made on a regular basis. So we are able to safely operate our units at this time, and the investments that we're making allow us to do that at this time. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you. Member for Deh Cho.
Mahsi, Madam Chair. I guess all the financial questions were already asked by my colleague. So
Sorry, man.
So, that's good. So I'll just get to the nittygritty of I notice in Fort Providence here we got 21 units. They're major retrofits. Six are for HELP. I know they're home entrylevel units. Oh, by the way, I know some contractors would be eating steak every night now, I guess, but. But the HELP program, the home entry level Homeownership Entry Level, I think that's the program, isn't that just new housing that was turned over to some clients, and if so, why are we doing major retrofits on them so suddenly? Masi.
Thank you. Minister of Housing Corporation.
Thank you, Madam Chair. Yes, that was one of the programs that would be a pathway to homeownership. Some of the units that we have in the communities that we didn't have qualified candidates to acquire those units, and some of them have been sitting vacant. So now we are going to be renovating them and either reprofiling them or putting them up for sale. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you. Member for Deh Cho.
MR. BONNETROUGE: Mahsi for that. Yeah, I guess they are the ones that are just sitting around in our community boarded up for quite a number of years. I'm wondering if the major retrofits on some of these, because they're built on foundations that are totally enclosed. Anything that's enclosed and has moisture in there leads to mould. And I've seen
Thank you. Minister of Housing Corporation.
Thank you, Madam Chair. For those further details, I'll turn the response to President Young. Thank you.
Thank you. President Young.
Thank you, Madam Chair. And so, yes, as we look at M and I for a unit, we're looking at what repairs are required based on the unit inspection, the condition rating to bring it up to a reasonable standard. Obviously to change out a foundation would be a very expensive undertaking in many houses, but if there is a way to mitigate any issues that are happening with the foundation system, I do believe in most of our new construction we have changed our foundation approach so that it does not lead to that kind of problem over the longer term. But for units that we've got up currently, if there is a way to mitigate the problem that is there through an M and I program, we would be looking at that. The M and I is really looking at trying to invest in that unit, extend the lifespan, and bring it back up to an acceptable condition rating. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you. Member for Deh Cho.
Mahsi, Madam Chair. Mahsi for that brief explanation. The people moved out of most of these units or gave them up because the mould issues, and I stated that, you know, when you have a box and it's all totally enclosed in and it you know, it's a candidate for mould situations. So, you know, when you're going to fix them up without addressing that issue, it's going to be sitting empty for the rest of its life, you know what I mean? So you're going to have to include in your design, ways to open up that foundation so that it has ventilation to the floor and there's a good chance that you may have to replace the floor system. Not the foundation walls itself, but the floor systems. I'm just wondering how far you're going to be going with these because it would be a waste of money to not address, you know, the root of the problem and just fix it up and hopefully somebody will buy it or move in. Mahsi.
