Yeah, so we did send a letter on January 24th in regards to that. So we apologize if it's got misplaced. We will make sure that committee gets the letter that we sent. And maybe it's not the information the Member wants on there.
In regards to the other question, with your permission I'll go to the deputy minister. Thank you.
Mahsi. Deputy minister.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. So as I mentioned, the mobile caribou conservation measures, we have the documents created. There's been a pilot project, and we're going to continue to work with Aurora GeoSciences to trialrun mobile caribou conservation measures at one of their or partners' exploration camp in 2022. So that work is moving along, and we are working to get it through interdepartmental review at this time. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Mahsi. Mr. O'Reilly.
Thanks, Mr. Chair. Thanks for that. Yeah, this work has been underway for at least a couple summers. I think that it might have been slowed down by COVID. But I didn't actually get a response to my question. When will we actually see changes that require mineral exploration, in particular, to actually shut down whether there's caribou around their property? That's what these measures would do. Right now, the diamond mines do it because it's best practice; it's consistent with ESG that our Minister of ITI keeps talking about. We don't do that in this jurisdiction, though. It's voluntary. So is this department moving towards actually making this some kind of regulatory requirement? Thanks, Mr. Chair.
Mahsi, Mr. O'Reilly. Minister.
For that detail, I'll turn to the deputy minister. Thank you.
Deputy minister.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. We're working right now to get these documents in place and make sure that they work and work with our partners on what the next steps will be. There is a likelihood that that could result in regulatory change but at this point, we need to get the pilot and work with the industry with our industry partners on this to make sure that it's effective. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Mahsi. Mr. O'Reilly.
Okay, thanks, Mr. Chair, and thanks for that information. So how do we actually get the socalled "industry partners" to actually do this if it's not an actual regulatory change? Just kind of look for volunteers, or how's that actually going to work? And would it be put in place in time for this summer? That's what I guess I'd really like to know. Thanks, Mr. Chair.
Mahsi, Mr. O'Reilly. Minister.
For that detail, I'd turn to the deputy minister. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Deputy minister.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. To get this in place, we needed to complete the documents, which we've done, engage with the other departments, and then work with industry to test them out to make sure that they're going to work over time, and that's where we're at in the process. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Mahsi. Mr. O'Reilly.
Thanks, Mr. Chair. Maybe I'll try it one more time. So are we looking for volunteers do this, or is this going to be across the whole industry? Or how's this actually going to get piloted, and will it get piloted this summer? Thanks, Mr. Chair.
Mahsi, Mr. O'Reilly. Minister.
Thank you. For that detail, I'll turn to the deputy minister. Thank you.
Deputy minister.
These are for exploration camps. There's already in it's already in place in the wildlife, with the monitoring and management plans, the WMMPs, for existing mines. The EA process and the WMMPs formalize requirements for specific operating projects, and as soon as we're done internal reviews I've already mentioned, we will be sharing it with industry partners so that we can make this work and do the testing that we need to this summer. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Mahsi. Mr. O'Reilly.
Thanks, Mr. Chair. I'm not sure I'm really getting anywhere. Are we seeking volunteers for this work, yes or no? Thank you.
Mahsi, Mr. O'Reilly. Minister.
For the deputy minister, please. Thank you.
Deputy minister.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. It's already happening with the mines under the WMMPs, and for the exploration camps we already have volunteers who are willing to test it out this summer. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Mahsi. Any other questions from committee? Ms. Nokleby.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. I guess just further along these lines, has there ever actually been incidents of caribou or wildlife being harassed by drilling companies that have been charged or that the Minister is aware of? Thank you.
Mahsi, Ms. Nokleby. Minister.
Thank you. Not during my time, but I will turn to the deputy minister for maybe there's more information available that I'm not aware of. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Deputy minister.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. These measures are how do I put this? The industry is working with us and understands that we need to look at how we can support the caribou, and these mobile caribou measures are something that are already in place with the diamond mines and we're just looking to work with the exploration camps to get them in place as well. So I'm not characterizing it as industry harassing caribou. It's that activities of the like, of these sites could be better managed to address caribou needs and that's what we're working together on, the balance of protecting the caribou and still allowing exploration to happen, and there's a lot of positive work that's moving in that direction. You know, these documents that I've just reviewed are quite extensive, and I'll be really happy when they're able to be out and people can review them as well once we're done our review. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Mahsi. Ms. Nokleby.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. Perhaps just a moment where I should have been more careful with the words that I chose in that I guess in my time in working in the field and on drill rigs etcetera, it was fairly understood and common practice that we were not doing anything that was to impact or impede wildlife, including even going to the bathroom on the tundra at times. So I guess I just wanted to hear that, you know, reassurance that there hasn't really been a problem here. And I am glad to hear that industry is working with the department. And at times, I know I had heard a lot from industry about them wanting to have the buyin, the social buyin, they want to follow our rules, and really the biggest issue seemed to be was more just about clarity and how do they go through that process versus actual any issues with the processes itself. They just mostly want to know about navigating it and making sure that it's applied fairly across the board so that they can anticipate things ahead of time and not have surprises. So I was just curious to know if that was the case. So thank you. More of a comment than anything, Mr. Chair.
Mahsi, Ms. Nokleby. Minister, do you have anything to say? No, good? Any further oh, sorry, excuse me. Ms. WeyallonArmstrong.
Okay, thank you. Thank you. I know this will take a political will. As a result of the restriction that is in place, when you look at it, it just seems like, okay, Tlicho people are allowed to go hunting once a year because of the restriction. At the same time, I know there's lot of us, you know, we do respect the work that was done by the Indigenous government and by the knowledgekeeper and the boards regarding the conservation as noted. We do respect that. But the current mobile that is in place right now, it's almost the size of the 39,000 square kilometres. That's the size of Tlicho land. And as reported before, it's almost the size as Nova Scotia. That's the mobile zone. That's the current mobile zone that is in place. Just want to know if there is a way the department can reduce the zone to give people a chance to harvest caribou for their families and communities.
Like I said yesterday too, Gameti ice road, winter road is open. So those people are going to be travelling. And the Wekweti too, it's going to be the ice road is going to be opening soon. It is in the process. So the department needs to take into consideration when the people go hunting, they're coming from a long ways and there is a wear and tear on their hunting equipments. There's the snow machines; you know, like the sled. Everything, toboggans. There's all kinds of things that has to be taken into consideration. But these people are providing for their families in the small communities, and it's only once a year. So people in the small communities, they are already struggling as it is with the high cost of living. And the restriction, it's a burden; we know that. It is a burden for lot of people. So that's not the only problem that I have or not that I have, but many of my constituent have, because I just talked to somebody today and said the seizure of caribou and of their hunting equipment, that's a problem for them, you know, because they're not coming from, like, a short distance. They're coming some of them like, in order to travel from Behchoko to all the way there is, like, 12 hours. So they're going from a long ways. And even like with the GNWT health status report that I said the day before in my Member's statement, there is not enough jobs in the communities. So how can people make a sustainable living without their hunting equipments? So we have to take that into consideration. There's not enough jobs, and then not enough money for them to pay the court to, you know, to get their for their hunting equipment and all that. So there's not enough. So we have to take that into consideration too. Also the cost, the court cost. That's what I'm talking about. And just like yesterday when I was talking to one of the young parent, she said if my husband was not my spouse was not a hunter, a trapper, and a fisherman, my family would be starving.
And lot of the small communities, they rely on the country food. And right now, because of the restriction that is in place, like I said we do respect, you know, the work that are being done, but what people would like to see is that from my conversations and I talk to Shane to the Minister's assistant today before too. So what the people would like to see is that to give them a chance to reduce the mobile zone, give them a chance to go hunting to provide for their families and the communities. At least give them time.
I know you guys are going to be following the regulations. You're going to be saying, okay, well, we have to follow, we have to call Wek’eezhii, all those other people, you know, that are part of the regulations. But the assistant said it's going to take, like, at least 60 days to, you know to get the word out. But we don't have 60 days. By the time that you guys do something about it, hunting season's going to be over and well, not the hunting season is going to be over, it's just that the winter road is going to be out so it's there's no how are they going to go travel to the tundra? So that is the problem.
So what I would like to see is that if this government if the government, the RWED, can reduce the mobile zone, give people a chance to go out hunting for their families and for their community, harvest caribou before the ice road close. So that's what I would like to see. That's what the people are asking. So that's why I am addressing it as it is now. Thank you.
Mahsi, Ms. WeyallonArmstrong. Minister.
Thank you. I'll start, and then I'll ask to you to turn to the deputy minister.
When I first became the Minister of ENR, the first thing I said to the department, I do not want to be the Minister responsible for no caribou in the Northwest Territories. I made that very clear. As we are all aware, the Bathurst caribou herd is facing a serious conservation concern and is currently at record low numbers. The latest population survey, just this June 2021, resulted in the population estimate of 6,240 caribou, down from 470,000 in 1986. I repeat: Down to 6,240 caribou.
The GNWT has worked closely with its comanagement partners, including the Tlicho government, to put a range management plan action in place to support the recovery of the herd. A key action to support the herd is the mobile core mobile zone that the member's talked about, which is used to implement a complete harvest closure put in place by the Wek’eezhii Renewable Resources Board. That board there is a we work with them, the Tlicho government, we work with those guys to come up with this zone.
The zone was developed and is implemented, again, collaboratively with the Tlicho government, ENR, and the Wek’eezhii Renewable Resources Board. If the mobile zone was reduced at this time, it would put collaborative conservation actions for the herd at risk. At risk. We only have 6,240 caribou in that herd. So further detail, I'll turn to the deputy minister. Thank you, Mr. Chair, with your permission.
Mahsi. Deputy minister.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. So each week, ENR informs the public of the location of the mobile zone by sharing updated maps with Indigenous governments and Indigenous organizations, posting on the ENR web page, social media, and along winter roads, and in communities.
We've been working with leaders from Indigenous governments and organizations and harvesters to promote harvest from healthy caribou herds. So there are still opportunities to harvest from the Beverly herd and from other herds and from alternate species like moose and fish. For Tlicho communities, opportunities exist to harvest from the Beverly herd and with authorization cards provided, the BluenoseEast caribou herd.
In January, the Minister committed to provide some additional funds to support alternative harvest to the Tlicho government and other Indigenous governments and organizations whose Members have traditionally harvested from the Bathurst herd. And I'd just like to add at the end that seizures only happen if there's an investigation into an illegal harvest. That's under the Wildlife Act. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Mahsi. Ms. WeyallonArmstrong.
Yeah, I think today we were talking about that too, about the seizure. Yes, well, if the Minister doesn't want to be known as the Minister who got rid of all the Bathurst or known of getting rid of certain species, then I think he should change or do a Cabinet shuffle, because that's not what the answer that we wanted to hear and because you some people are saying that that is not true. It's not true that why did they did the boundary so big. They're not telling people the truth. And for the record, what I would like the Minister do is that can he repeat who was the zone developed by, because people would like to know the truth about that one. Who was the zone developed by? For the record, can you please repeat?
Mahsi, Ms. WeyallonArmstrong. We just have to be mindful of our language and how we address Ministers, making accusatory statements and whatnot. I'll pass it to the Minister.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. Mr. Chair, the zone is our caribou with our caribou herds, with collared. The zone was the process was developed with the Tlicho government, the ENR, and the Wek’eezhii Renewable Resources Board. So we work collaboratively with them. We work with our Indigenous governments collaboratively on this. We work with them. We have conversations. We have numerous meetings throughout the year with them. But for further detail on this, I would like to turn to the deputy minister. Thank you.
Mahsi. Deputy minister.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. ENR recognizes the challenges for those that are trying to harvest, and it's not just the Tlicho government. And our Minister met with each and every one of those Indigenous governments this year and has met with them previously, actually every year, multiple times a year, to talk about this, to provide extra assistance where we have the ability to do so for harvesting alternate species and also for healthy caribou herds.
The Bathurst herd is not the only herd that's available. There are opportunities to legally harvest from the Beverly herd as well as from the BluenoseEast herd, and there are opportunities and there's been additional funding provided for alternate species. The Bathurst herd is at a critically low level and allowing any harvest of that herd, and this is agreed to by Tlicho government and other Indigenous governments, would affect the conservation measures that we've had in place for all of these years, and it is not advisable from ENR's perspective and the Tlicho government and other Indigenous governments, as well as the Wek’eezhii Renewable Resources Board at this time. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Mahsi. No further questions on this section, fish and wildlife. Please turn to page 92. Environment and Natural Resources, wildlife and fish, operations expenditure summary, 20222023 Main Estimates, $16,147,000. Does committee agree?
Agreed.
Agree, thank you. There are additional items from pages 95 to 103. And I'll open up for questions. Mr. O'Reilly.
