Thank you, Member for Tu NedheWiilideh. Minister of NWT Housing Corp, did you want to respond?
Thank you, Madam Chair. And my apologies, I'm not sure if I was supposed to inform you that I wanted to switch witnesses.
Okay. We haven't switched sections yet.
Okay, just in response to the MLA from Tu NedheWiilideh, it was just the appropriate witness to be responding. Is that all right? My apologies that I done that without getting the approval first.
If you want to get your president to respond, or you? I mean, this is the last speaker on this section, so.
Because I switched out the witnesses without letting you know. Just that I really like those comments coming from the MLA.
And looking at our Indigenous partnerships, you know, for the territories, we have made significant progress within the last two years of this government and looking at creating the and working with the Council of Leaders and looking at our policy review and the renewal coming forward. And really highlighting the work that's being done on the coinvestment fund, that we've had a large number of submissions that have come forward which gives us the opportunity to be working with those Indigenous groups directly.
There has been a number of announcements that have been made by the federal government to directly fund the Indigenous groups, and our messaging to Canada was if you don't want to if we're not going to be receiving the funding directly to the Northwest Territories, then fund the Indigenous groups and we'll work together; we'll work in partnership with them. And so far, we have been able to also address the partnerships in the communities looking at homelessness, looking at our Northern Pathways program and what is that we can offer.
But specifically for the Member's riding, the Housing Corporation is open to be an invitation to coming into that community. What is that needs to be done? If it's home repair, then we do have a community housing initiative that we can start working with the Indigenous groups there as well. If we're looking at housing repair and our policies are a barrier, that is exactly what that program is for. If we could directly fund the community and they can provide those services on our behalf, I'm absolutely open to that. But for further elaboration and our commitment and our relationship building, I will turn it over to associate deputy minister Jamie Fulford. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you. Mr. sorry, I didn't get the last name.
Thank you, Madam Chair. Just to add to what the Minister has said there, the renewal strategy of the corporation that was released in the fall places a specific emphasis on collaborating with Indigenous governments and also addressing that perception that in the past it might have looked like we were in competition with Indigenous governments, particularly for federal funding. It's also a matter that we've raised with our federal partners so that they design their programs in a way that doesn't pit NWT governments against each other.
Another key development from June of last year was the inaugural meeting of the Council of Leaders and the striking of Council of Leaders housing working group. There, we're able to talk about our policies and programming, and we've initiated that step of reviewing those policies and programming with the Council of Leaders working group. So they have direct input on whether we whether our programs are a good fit with what their goals are.
And finally, I'd just like to make the point that this government has made a point of supporting direct funding to Indigenous governments. It's not something that certainly the Housing Corporation stands in the way of. We know that we're not we're not the only game in town and that Indigenous governments are well positioned to support their own interests. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you. All right, so if there are no further questions, we will move to the executive beginning on page 380, with information items on 381. Member for Yellowknife North.
Thank you, Madam Chair. I see there's one additional position in the executive. Can the minister explain what that position is?
Minister of NWT Housing Corporation.
Thank you, Madam Chair. I'll have president Young respond. I'm not on that section; I'm just trying to find my page here. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you. President Young.
Thank you, Madam Chair. And I can say he just walked out the door. It is our associate deputy minister who has joined us on a term to support the renewal and federal engagement, and he's joined us last May. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you. Member for Hay River Yellowknife North.
Thank you, Madam Chair. My understanding of how the government works is assistant deputy ministers are essentially in charge of operations of a department, and I know the Housing Corp's a little different, and then associate deputy ministers are usually deputy ministers in waiting or on terms to eventually take over. Is that kind of the thought with this position, that the associate deputy minister may one day be the president, or is he just here for a term for the sake of the renewal? Can I just get some clarification on really, I don't understand "assistant" and "associate" partially. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you, member. I will give this to the Honourable Premier.
Thank you, Madam Chair. Actually I appointed that position directly because I wanted a total policy review of the Housing Corporation. So that person is responsible for doing the policy review with the Indigenous governments at the Council of Leaders table so that all of the policies within housing will be done, reviewed, and hopefully changed within the term of this government. So it was an appointment from myself. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Madam Premier. Member for Yellowknife North.
Thank you, Madam Chair. And I would like to thank the Premier for that answer. I think that that's great. I think it's great to have a senior person leading, you know, what is a very important renewal, and I look forward to the results of that.
I guess I have some questions a bit about where we think this renewal is going. I know we got the new statement and vision today. And I think the way I would frame the longstanding tension in the Housing Corporation is whether it is a social envelope department or whether it should be a corporation that is solely focused on assets and infrastructure. And I'll note this has led to some weird situations where a lot of our shelter money is in health, and then the other half is in housing. Sometimes there's a distinction made between day and night shelters, but that has even been blurred. Most of the shelters in Yellowknife are predominantly funded by health in a lot of cases.
So I'm just wondering if part of that conversation is perhaps bringing in some more homelessness experts and bringing in some of that perhaps shelter money and positions from health, if that's on the table. Thank you.
Thank you. Minister responsible for NWT Housing Corporation.
Thank you, Madam Chair. For further description and response, I'll have president Young respond. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you. President Young.
Thank you, Madam Chair. And with the division mission document that was released yesterday, I hope that folks do see a shift in thinking towards the more social aspect of the Housing Corporation, that we're not just bricks and mortar but that we are a program department.
With regards to the homelessness conversation, as noted there's been a lot of confusion. It is something that straddles at least three departments, if not more. And we hope to be bringing forward a strategic approach to that in the next matter of time here that will talk about how to bring those things where there is consistency and approach, consistency in the way that we fund and our support. I mentioned earlier things like operating guidelines, training. Those are things that we've heard across the board that we need to work better at across departments to support the vulnerable population team. So that is what we're working with our sister departments on at the moment. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you. Member for Yellowknife North.
Thank you, Madam Chair. Yeah, I'm very happy to see that, and that work excites me. I think as part of that work, I'm wondering if the department will do some evaluation of shelter costs versus housing costs. I think it's well established that shelters are extremely expensive and, you know, one GNWT staff person who we when we create a shelter could actually just pay for six people to be housed. And I think when it's coming out of different departments, perhaps that analysis is not being done, and I think perhaps some of our shelters, although, you know, we need them until one day perhaps we end homelessness, the budgets haven't been looked through seriously to know whether they could actually just in fact be ending homelessness through a housingfirst model. And so I'm wondering if as part of this work, we can create some sort of policy to know when shelter costs have just surpassed the point where it's ridiculous; they are not, in fact, housing. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you. Minister for NWT Housing Corporation.
Thank you, Madam Chair. I'll have president Young respond. Thank you, Madam Chair.
President Young.
Thank you, Madam Chair. And yes, I think that work is part of the planning. We do need to build in evaluation regardless of what direction this goes. But we do need to understand who our clientele are, whether sheltering is the appropriate model or whether there's other model that we would be should be looking at for certain sectors of the population and be looking at what is the best way to support those folks. Is it shelters; is it perhaps more of an adult group home model? You know, there's lots of ideas out there. But we do need to understand I think the first part is to understand what we've got now and what we're serving and then figure out the goforward. But that is part of the conversation that we're having, yes. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you. Member for Frame Lake.
Thanks, Madam Chair. We're on the executive portion, and I guess this is where the leadership for the Housing Corp is, and the buck stops here.
I'd like to know how forced growth is considered by the Housing Corporation and its operations and, you know, how that figures into submissions to the Financial Management Board or whatever. So how is forced growth factor into what we're seeing here? Thanks.
And the reason why I raise that is the inflation rate in Canada and Northwest Territories is probably around 5 percent. And I just don't see that being added to any part of this budget. So I'd like to get a response. Thanks, Madam Chair.
Thank you. Minister responsible for NWT Housing Corporation.
Thank you, Madam Chair. I'll have vice president Jim Martin respond. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you. Mr. Martin.
Thank you, Madam Chair. The Housing Corporation, as with other departments, participates in the annual business planning process with the government and as part of that process, there is an opportunity to bring forward forced growth submissions, which is essentially areas which are beyond our control to manage, basically.
So for the 20222023 Main Estimates, we received incremental funding support from the GNWT for property taxes, which is reflected in the 20222023 Main Estimates. And that was associated with uncontrollable mill rate changes and assessments of properties. So that's just an example, but. But that is the process we follow. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you. Member for Frame Lake.
Thanks, Madam Chair, and thanks for the information. Can I get a list, then, of the forced growth parts of the NWT Housing Corporation budget for 20222023? A list of the forced growth additions. Thanks, Madam Chair.
Thank you. Minister for NWT Housing Corporation.
Thank you, Madam Chair. I don't have that at my fingertips. I'll have vice president Jim Martin respond. Thank you.
Thank you. Mr. Martin.
Thank you, Madam Chair. There was two areas within our main estimates for 20222023 that we received forced growth funding for.
In 20222023, the first area was the property taxes; the area that I mentioned. And the second area was the related to the incremental costs that would be associated with an expansion of the public housing program. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you. Member for Frame Lake.
Okay, thanks, Madam Chair. Okay, it's going to be I'm trying to be diplomatic here. This is nothing against the staff for the Housing Corporation who are working very hard and I get a sense that we're on the verge of making some fundamental change. But I just don't understand what the problem is in getting more money into the Housing Corporation. I've been here for six years, and it just doesn't happen. I don't understand whether the Housing Corp actually puts together submissions to the Financial Management Board and Cabinet for more money for housing, or if they get denied. I just don't understand why we're not getting more money for housing.
Clearly, this is a priority for all of the MLAs, and we just don't see any growth.
The regular MLAs, we had to fight very hard to get, you know, onetime increases of $5 million a couple years for the Housing Corporation. You know, earlier, Madam Chair, you said, ask us for more money and we're going to get it for you, or we'll approve it. So what is the problem in getting more money for the Housing Corporation as a GNWT contribution? I just don't understand it, and I'd like an answer. Thank you.
Thank you, Member. Minister responsible for NWT Housing Corporation.
Thank you, Madam Chair. And, you know, I kind of was asked a similar question earlier today, and in respect to the other government departments that we do have when we are allocated funding for the Northwest Territories, that to be the fairness and consistency throughout other programs and services that are provided. There is a process that we do have to go through. And putting in those submissions, we do have the opportunity to put those forward to FMB and be requesting funding. But we also have a number of programs and services and projects that are leading in the Northwest Territories, and we just have a limited amount of funding that we do work with. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you. Member for Frame Lake.
Thanks, Madam Chair, and I appreciate that coming from the Minister responsible, but my interpretation of that is that the Minister needs to be fighting very hard and working with her colleagues in Cabinet to get more money for housing. And I just don't know what to do anymore because as a Regular MLA for six years, I've asked for more money for housing every time and nothing seems to happen. I'm just about ready to give up here.
I agree with my colleague behind me from Yellowknife North that maybe we need at least $20 million more. I've been pushing for a plan to get us out of core need for probably four or five years. I think we're supposed to get that sometime soon. But I just don't understand why Cabinet is not directing more money into housing. Our own contributions.
You know, we got to stop blaming the feds. We got to stop blaming everybody else. If this is a priority with this government, we need to be spending more money on housing. And I'd like to hear from the Minister about that. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you. Minister responsible for NWT Housing Corporation.
Thank you, Madam Chair. And I know I hear the Member's frustration, and it is frustrating as well too with the number of concerns we have throughout the Northwest Territories and looking at our response and our program delivery. But right now, the federal government is key for us. And I just we just got over a COVID response, you know, and looking at those further expenditures as well too that were just unforeseen, that we have felt it in the Housing Corporation as well. And also looking at the coinvestment funding that was provided to the corporation over five years of $5 million annually. And the corporation does try to be very strategic with the funding that we have received. You know, I am pressing my colleagues but like I had said, we have such a huge response within the time of this government and I want to just for myself, just point blank, that COVID has really set us off into a different area of further expenditures that we, you know, had to endure over this over this time. But I will have like, I'll have president Young respond as well too because we just have a limited amount of funding, houses to put on the ground. We're able to get the 90unit delivery, and the Indigenous groups are getting a fair amount as well but it's not coming to the territorial government. Thank you, Madam Chair.
