Thank you. Member for Frame Lake.
Thanks, Madam Chair. Yeah, I look forward to a supplementary appropriation to support Arctic Energy Alliance and the good programs that it offers.
But I want to switch gears and move to probably some higher level questions around energy and strategic initiatives. I raised this with the Minister of Environment and Natural Resources and was told that this was something that he wasn't really responsible for.
So when I look at the GNWT energy initiatives report for 2021 and the forecasts of greenhouse gas reductions, by the year 2025 we will have only reached 20 percent of the target that was set through the PanCanadian Framework. And so we have to reach another 80 percent reductions in the last five years. So I always complained about how the last Cabinet's approach was back end loaded, and it's coming true.
So what is the department doing about making sure that GNWT, or the Northwest Territories more properly, meets the PanCanadian Framework, because the current energy strategy is failing and failing quickly. Thanks, Madam Chair.
Thank you. Minister of Infrastructure.
Thank you. Thank you, Madam Chair. Madam Chair, there are a number of things that we are doing to ensure that we meet our 2030 strategy and, you know, we look at the action plan every three years and we're able to see if we're meeting targets. If we're not, what are some of the things that we're able to do to further advance our projects.
So, you know, some of our key initiatives, like big projects, we're advancing the Taltson Project, the Inuvik Wind Project, Fort ProvidenceKakisa Line, feasibility for Tuk liquefied natural gas, you know, replacement oil heating of 45 housing. And I'm not going to go on because I'm using up Member's time but we are doing advancing some of these projects within the strategy. Thank you.
Thank you, Minister. Member for Frame Lake.
Thanks, Madam Chair. Yeah, clearly, the 2030 Energy Strategy is failing, and it's not we're not going to reach the PanCanadian Framework target; there's no way. So what I was hoping I was going to hear from the Minister is that we're going to reset that or throw it out, quite frankly, and bring in some energy projects that will actually allow us to meet that target. And those it's going to need we require things like hydrogen a workshop that I recently attended that the department put on. We need to find ways to reduce the energy that's consumed in the transportation sector and in the mining sector, quite frankly. And I don't want to have wait for diamond mines to close so that we can actually meet the target, but that's where we're going.
So what is it that the department's going to do to reset this strategy and get us on a proper track so that we can actually meet the PanCanadian Framework target? Thanks, Madam Chair.
Thank you. Minister of Infrastructure.
Thank you, Madam Chair. Madam Chair, and I believe the Member's asked me this on the floor, if we can just scrap the 2030 Energy Strategy, and at the time my answer was no, because we're going to go back and look at the action plan and assess it every three years. And perhaps, you know, see where in which areas we're not meeting targets and be able to assess that. And if I can, Madam Chair, to have Mr. Jenkins just to speak a little bit more in specific initiatives that we are trying to get to our bigger target by 2030. Thank you.
Thank you. Mr. Jenkins.
Thank you, Madam Chair. So the current target is 30 percent for 2005 levels by 2030. So we are currently 16 percent below those levels. So we do feel that we're progressing towards our current GHG reduction targets. We are advancing a number of larger projects. As they come on stream, we'll see more GHG emissions reductions. And as the Minister mentioned, we're starting work on our new threeyear action plan, and we're going to look at, you know, what actions we need going forward. We're going to look at different pathways, different targets. You know, are they feasible, can they work; we're going to look at a number of things. We've recently launched our public engagement on that, and we look forward to hearing back from different stakeholders and our partners and building that plan moving forward. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Mr. Jenkins. Member for Frame Lake.
Yeah, thanks, Madam Chair. We're just not going to make the target at this rate. There's no way. It's impossible for us to make the target especially when we're stuck in this strategy. And, you know, the federal government has to be watching this, and should be watching this, the money that they're giving us, because part of the reason we you know, the last Cabinet, it took a lot for them to actually sign on to the PanCanadian Framework in the first place. And the only reason they did that was because they said that if we're going to reach that target, you got to give us some money. So the feds have given us money and we're still failing because it's the mix of projects that are being presented here. There's no way we're going to meet the PanCanadian Framework target. So that's a warning to the Minister, I guess, that we're not going to make it, and I don't want to be sitting here a year from now, or two years from now, hearing from the Auditor General that again our government has failed to reach the targets that were set in our own internal greenhouse gas emission strategies, because that's the record that this government has. We don't meet the targets that we set and that's what's happening with this strategy. Thanks, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Member for Frame Lake. Are there any further questions under the energy strategic initiatives?
Seeing none, Infrastructure, energy and strategic initiatives, operations expenditure summary, 20222023 Main Estimates, $15,906,000. Does committee agree?
Agreed.
Thank you, committee. And SergeantatArms, I'll get you to switch the witnesses. Thank you.
Welcome back, deputy minister Loutitt. And so we are going to continue on with programs and services beginning on page 251, with information items on page 253. Member for Hay River South.
Thank you, Madam Chair. I'd like to, I guess, talk a bit about MTS, and I'm hoping this is the right section, or maybe we passed it. But nevertheless, I've got ten minutes so.
There was a loss shown for MTS of around $5.8 million and of that, about $4.3 million, I think, was with respect to operating losses. Can the Minister just talk a bit about that, and I think it was partly because of the properties and that, just give me an explanation to, you know, why that loss was there. Can we expect something in the future with the number of properties that they took over from NTCL? Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Member. Minister of Infrastructure.
Thank you, Madam Chair. The marine transportation system had a net accounting deficit of $3.3 million even before departmental appropriations in 20202021 due to continued cost of maintenance and staffing along with, again, the good old challenges of COVID19. So the main estimate does not show a deficit because it's under the revolving fund. And I quickly was able to go back to that section when it will speak specifically about that in that section, because of the Revolving Funds Act. So any deficits must be covered by departmental appropriations.
Thank you.
Thank you. So the deficit, the accounting deficit comprised of some of the active operational losses due to uncertainties, insurance coverage that is required, amortization expense was another big one of 2.6, additional interest cost of financing on loans estimated at 1.1. So these were all the losses that were comprised of MTS. Thank you.
Thank you. Member for Hay River South.
Thank you, Madam Chair. And I thought I saw somewhere on there that with respect to repairs to the equipment that was purchased from NTCL that there was that was part of the reason for the losses? Can you speak to that a bit. Because there is you know, there was a lot of equipment that was purchased, and I'm just not sure how you know, how much of it has actually been used for operations. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you. Minister of Infrastructure.
Thank you, Madam Chair. I'm going to have Mr. Brennan speak about the question. Thank you.
Thank you. ADM Brennan.
Thank you, Madam Chair. Yeah, so the Member's correct, there was a lot of equipment purchased from NTCL as part of that purchase back in 2016.
One of the things that we've done in the last couple of years is we've looked at our business and tried to right size the equipment that we're actually using. So there is a lot of surplus equipment that we want to get rid of sitting around the yards there. What we've done in the last two years, though, is just look at the equipment we're going to use for the next sailing season and prepare that equipment and try and right size the organization. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you. Member for Hay River South.
Thank you, Madam Chair. And I'd be remiss not to mention ORC. I'd just like to know what is happening with that contract, if it's coming up for renewal or is there an extension on it? Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you. Minister of Infrastructure.
Thank you, Madam Chair. Madam Chair, my understanding it was just recently renewed but I want to get clarification in terms of, you know, as MTS is going through a governance review model and just to see how that affects some of our contracts. So if I can have Mr. Brennan speak to where we're at in terms of the contract details. Thank you.
Mr. Brennan.
Thank you, Madam Chair. Yeah, so the ORC contract I believe was signed in 2021. I do believe it was a threeyear contract so that won't expire until 2024. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you. Member for Hay River South.
Thank you, Madam Chair. I just want to change up here a bit, and I want to talk about the or the ferries. And I'd like to talk I guess about specifically the Abraham Francis. My understanding is that vessel is only rated at 40,000 kg so this limits the number of loads the weight and loads coming across whereas you got the Louis Cardinal, which is closer to Inuvik, and it's rated for 64,000 kg.
So my understanding is that is it possible my understanding it is possible to lengthen the Abraham Francis which would then allow you to increase that to 64 which will make it a lot better to a lot easier to move cargo across. And so I'm just wondering if any work or any assessment is being done to make that happen? Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you. Minister of Infrastructure.
Thank you, Madam Chair. Madam Chair, I'm going to ask Mr. Brennan to speak a little bit more about some of the technical questions in that question because I don't fully understand what it means from going from 45 to 67. So I'm going to see if Mr. Brennan can help me out here. Thanks.
Thank you, Minister. Mr. Brennan.
Thank you, Madam Chair. Yeah, so the Member is correct, there's definitely different weight limits on the Abraham Francis, which is a cable ferry across the Peel River. And I'm kind of concerned because I had a conversation about this yesterday and now I'm wondering if he's been listening in on our conversations, but.
We are looking at extending the ferry. We put in some more styrofoam in last year just to increase the buoyancy of that vessel, and we want to extend the ferry by I do believe it's 20 to 30 feet. Unfortunately right now we don't have any funding so we are seeking funding. We're trying to come up with creative ways to extend that ferry to allow our superBs to go in one load rather than to have to decouple the fuel trucks and go back again.
So the Member is correct, there is some challenges with that ferry. We do want to extend it. We think we can extend it by X number of feet and get 25 more years out of that ferry as well. So if we can identify the funding, we will actually proceed with that project as soon as we can. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you. Member for Hay River South.
Thank you, Madam Chair. And no, I wasn't in the conversation, and I was just talking to some people up around Inuvik, so. And they just raised that question to me.
The other thing about the you know, we talk about going green. We talk about, you know, electric conversion. So, yeah, I look at the four ferries that we have out there and the Abraham Francis ranis probably being the smallest. I would like you know, it would be interesting if we were to possibly look at turning that into converting to electric because it would do two things. It would reduce fuel consumption thus reducing greenhouse gases. So is that something that the department has actually looked at, either for that ferry or any other of the ferries? Thank you.
Thank you. Minister of Infrastructure.
Thank you. I don't understand what the question I'm going to ask Gary to speak to that. Thank you.
Thank you, Minister. Mr. Brennan.
Yeah, thank you, Madam Chair. Yeah, we actually have looked at the electrification of the Abraham Francis ferry. Some of the challenges we do have at some of our camps is a lack of electricity and power hookups at our sites, but we have looked at the electrification of that one. I'm not quite sure what the result of that was, though. But I we continue to look at that there.
One of the things that we look at actually is a lot of the federal funding that is coming out is green funding and in replacement of a ferry, that might be the way we'll have to go to get monies through the green funding to reduce well, to reduce GHGs but that's where the funding seems to sit these days so we continue to look at that. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you. Member for Hay River South.
Thank you, Madam Chair. Yeah, the other thing about the ferries too is, like, they are all aged and, you know, and to keep them up to I suspect Transport Canada regulations is probably fairly cumbersome and I suspect costly, especially if you're using, you know, southern firms to do the work.
So, you know, is there any plans in the future, I guess, to either build a new ferry or do any really major retrofits? My understanding is that maybe we continue to do retrofits as I when I go through the budget I see that. So I'm just wondering, you know, kind of where we're at with that as they kind of age out? Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you. Minister of Infrastructure.
Thank you, Madam Chair. We continue to do retrofits. We do that now with some of our ferries. And I do agree with the Member that we do have aging infrastructure and, you know, we continue to work with the feds to be able to look at replacing these, perhaps from single hull to double hull which may perhaps be a requirement going forward in the future. But at this point, that's not the intent other than to just continue with the retrofits. It is quite costly and, you know, we all know that we're working within a deficit right now. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you. Member for Great Slave.
Thank you, Madam Chair. Madam Chair, I just have a small comment or question to ask around I'm really glad to see that there's been the increase in positions for the occupational health and safety section here, and I know that that's the result of one new position in a region, which I think is great, and I guess I'd just like to urge the Minister or see if there are plans for one of these positions in each of the five regions. Thank you.
