Thank you, Madam Chair. Yes, the break down for corrections administration is the headquarters of corrections service as well as the training fund for corrections, which runs the CRTP, correctional training program. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you. Member for Yellowknife North.
Thank you, Madam Chair. During I believe it was the capital budget, we were talking, and our corrections are at an alltime low. Part of this is, we suspect, due to COVID and the courts have been shut down but also just a number of other factors. I was just wondering if the Minister had an update of whether we're seeing any trends that the number of inmates is going to go back up? Thank you.
Thank you. Minister of Justice.
Thank you. Since the last update I gave the House, the number has remained relatively stagnant. The last number I saw last week was somewhere around 75 inmates in the entire system. I suspect it's somewhere close to that. It's between 75 and 80 today. We did you know, the idea of the discussion around is this a trend; is this something that we can expect to see for years to come or will we see numbers go back up, is something that we are looking into. It wasn't that long ago when all the correctional facilities were full busting at the seams and now we have the exact opposite issue.
So no one wants to make rash decisions about what we're doing, how we're moving forward, because this is a relatively short time period that we're looking at where we've seen these low numbers. But the department has put together a working group to examine the numbers and try and determine why is this happening. There's assumptions about why it's happening but we need to know why it's happening and go from there. So I'm not sure if the deputy minister has anything to add. Yeah, I can hand it over to her. Thank you.
Thank you. Deputy minister Doolittle.
Mahsi, Madam Chair. Yes, the total count today is 74 for adults physical count, and the total physical count for youth today is three. So that's 32 percent of the adult count and 12 percent of the youth capacity. And the Minister is correct, there's a senior management working group that we've created to explore driving factors of the decrease, we're trending down, and if there are any ways to anticipate the trends. We will have to make some assumptions, you know, and why this is happening, but that work has started and it is a little too soon, we feel, to anticipate what the numbers will be postpandemic. Thank you. Mahsi, Madam Chair.
Thank you. Member for Yellowknife North.
Thank you, Madam Chair. I was wondering if we could get a breakdown of how many would be in the Hay River men's facility, Fort Smith men's facility, and North Slave men's facility. Thank you.
Thank you. Minister of Justice.
Thank you. Yes, I can get that for the Member momentarily here.
So in NSCC, there are 53. SMCC, nine. FSCC female, four. And FSCC male, there are eight. Thank you.
Thank you. Member for Yellowknife North.
Thank you, Madam Chair. I guess I'll just make some comments here.
You know, Scotland I'm going to step out a little. Scotland presented passed a presumption of short sentences of three months. They just said it didn't make it sense to jail people for that long. They lose employment. They lose housing. And that was so successful they actually made it for a sentence of less than a year. They just don't put people in jail for less than a year. They use probation, alternative measures, treatment, whatever else. And I think, you know, if we did that we would have no one left in prison. Anyone over two years in the Northwest Territories goes to federal prison. And I'll just note when we go back to the community justice committees, I just really believe, when I look at the $40 million we're spending on corrections, with a concerted effort we could put that into diversion and we could basically empty out our jails and be leaders in this. So I know we're doing a review of the numbers and what they look like postCOVID but I think and I know we got some great work doing for government renewal, but I really think that the entire justice system and our spending needs a review here, especially because very serious offences are dealt with by the feds. They're dealt with by federal corrections. But I just I question whether the 50 million or so dollars being spent in this, the last two sections, is at all accomplishing what we want. So I'll leave that as a comment for the Minister as these various reviews go forward. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you. Minister of Justice.
Thank you. So the majority of the people in the facilities are remanded. So they haven't been sentenced. So there was unless no one gets remanded, then we would still have a requirement for a facility. And I hear what the Member is saying as well.
There's also consideration about victims. Sometimes a victim does want whoever victimized them to not victimize them for at least a short period of time. And there are serious concerns about just, you know, not remanding anyone. But that being said, I hear the Member's concerns, and I think he's an idealist and that's we need some idealists always bringing those ideas forward. And I think that I would like to keep the numbers low, the lower the better. So I will continue to work down that path, and I think that that desire is shared by the department as well. Thank you.
Thank you, Minister. Are there any further questions under corrections? Member for Frame Lake.
Thanks, Madam Chair. Yeah, again, we've got, like, three activities for almost $40 million. I'm sure the Minister will work towards getting a better breakdown of this in the future.
But I want to ask about the community advisory boards that were supposed to be set up for correctional facilities and whether they're indeed in place now and are there any costs associated with that? And I'm not opposed to costs associated with that. I think these serve a useful purpose, and they were, you know, built into the new legislation. So if I could get some details from the Minister. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you. Minister of Justice.
Thank you. So the advisory boards that the Member is speaking about, they were they came into existence, I believe October 1st under the new when the new Corrections Act came into force.
We advertised for applicants. We received, unfortunately, very few, and so we extended the application period and we enlisted the MLAs to try and to help us get the word out and, you know, talk to interested people. I can ask the deputy minister for some information on where we are with that and potentially any costs associated. Thank you.
Thank you. Deputy minister Doolittle.
Mahsi, Madam Chair. There are small costs associated with that. Yes, we are running another expression of interest in February so we should have the results for that. We've reviewed the applications for each of the correctional facilities and will be establishing a CAB at the NSCC. If not done now, very soon, but we did receive low numbers and applications largely from Yellowknife. So we went out to seek further members and we're hoping to that that will be successful. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you. Member for Frame Lake.
Thanks, Madam Chair. Yeah, I'm just quickly trying to troll through my own emails to see if I got a heads up about this. But if the Minister or the staff want to send that again, I'd be happy to put it on my own Facebook page and YK Facebook page and so on, and I'm sure others would be as well. So it would be great to get those in place and operating. I don't think I have any other questions about this section, Madam Chair. Thank you.
Thank you, Member. Are there any further questions under the corrections?
Seeing none, please turn to page 283, Justice, corrections, operations expenditure summary, 20222023 Main Estimates, $39,419,000. Does committee agree?
Agreed.
Thank you, committee. Please move to page 287. We're on court services with information items on page 288.
Questions for court services?
Seeing none, Justice, court services, operations expenditure summary, 20222023 Main Estimates, $15,123,000. Does committee agree?
Agreed.
Thank you, committee. We'll now move to page 289, Justice, legal aid services, with information item on 290, 291. Are there any questions to legal aid services? Member for Great Slave.
Thank you, Madam Chair. I am looking at the line item for the Office of the Children's Lawyer, I note that it is more than the 20212022 Actuals, which is great. I can't say enough for the good work that this area is doing and have had friends who have utilized the services of the children's lawyer for the benefit of their children.
I think this is an area where we would want to see more money being put into, and perhaps a lot of people don't even realize, or I'm not sure how it's communicated to them, that there is this option for them. And given perhaps what I said earlier about the stresses that COVID has put on people and their relationships, we may see more of a need, unfortunately, for the children to have legal services.
So could the Minister speak to whether or not we will be looking for more money down the line for this, and would he be coming back for a supplement if it was oversubscribed? Thank you.
Thank you. Minister of Justice.
Thank you. For some detail on this item, I can ask the deputy minister to answer. Thanks.
Thank you. Deputy minister Doolittle.
Mahsi, Madam Chair. There is nothing in this budget but last year, in 20212022, there was the office did receive an increase of $99,000 in forced growth funding. So we are watching this office and paying attention to the needs if there are any increased needs. We are looking at an evaluation for 20252026, and that should help inform us going forward. I know it's not immediate, but we are paying attention to that and they did receive an increase last year. Mahsi, Madam Chair.
Thank you. Member for Great Slave.
Thank you, Madam Speaker. This is probably an area I don't know a lot about sorry, Madam Chair. An area that I don't know a lot about but, you know, we have talked a lot on the social development committee about perhaps a child's advocate. If we were to have a child advocate, does the Minister or the department think that this would then maybe take some of the strain off or relieve the need for the child's lawyer, or am I sort of just they're completely separate and not related? Thank you.
Thank you, Member. Minister of Justice.
Yes, they serve different purposes. I believe the child lawyer is when the courts require a child to have a lawyer and then the lawyer is appointed to the child through that process where the child advocate serves a different role altogether. Thank you.
Thank you, Minister. Member for Great Slave.
Thank you, Madam Chair. Yeah, I appreciate that. I guess then again I feel that that is a silo again. You know, we have children that have a need, and it would be nice if we could figure out some way to provide them with the services sort of all around them. But that's more of a comment than anything. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Member. Are there any further questions from Members under legal aid services? Member for Frame Lake.
Thanks, Madam Chair. There's, yeah, three positions that are being lost in legal aid services, and I would just like to know more about why that's happening, especially if we're interested in increasing access to justice. Thanks, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Member. Minister.
Thank you. Because of the timing of these main estimates, we show a decline of positions, but it's because we are it's the timing of when we sign our federal agreements. So there's no intention to lose these positions but the agreement was not signed in time to have it printed in the main estimates. So that money will come forward through a SUP, and those positions will reappear through that SUP. Thank you.
Thank you. Member for Frame Lake.
Thanks, Madam Chair. So what are we doing to try to increase access to justice through legal aid services? What changes, if any, are being made in terms of this budget? Thanks, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Member. Minister.
Thank you. There's one position being added. It is a data coordinator, and it has to do with perhaps I can just ask the deputy minister to explain it because it's a technical position. Thank you.
Thank you. Deputy minister Doolittle.
Mahsi, Madam Chair. If I could just have a moment to sort through my papers.
Yes, so this is involving electronic disclosure resources. During the pandemic, the PPSC, Public Prosecution Service of Canada, implemented a permanent procedure by which their staff now transfer virtually all disclosure for court evidence to the Legal Aid Commission electronically, and this has markedly increased the workload of the Legal Aid Commission staff and is causing significant operational disruption.
They're not set up to receive disclosure electronically both in system requirements and staff resources. Disclosure items include audio files, video, paper records, pictures, and its volume is thousands of individual documents and files. And lawyers also travel on circuit and need to have files readily accessible to both staff lawyers and nonGNWT private bar lawyers who are assigned files. So this position will help receive that and sort and take care of that, those new disclosure electronic disclosure files. Mahsi, Madam Chair.
Thank you. Member for Frame Lake.
