Thanks. I don't have anything further.
Member for Yellowknife North.
Thank you, Madam Chair. I believe right now, according to my count, there's four lawyers in the territory who don't live in Yellowknife and one of them is a Member of this House.
Have we looked into I know we have some positions that work for legal aid in the communities. None of them are lawyers. Have we looked into the feasibility of moving one of the legal aid clinics outside of Yellowknife? I'm a believer that access to justice requires lawyers in places even, you know, just to have someone to talk to in a community. And is that something that the department has reviewed? Thank you.
Thank you. Minister of Justice.
Thank you. I believe so. I know I asked the same question in the last Assembly. So I can ask the deputy minister to speak to that a little bit. Thanks.
Thank you. Deputy minister Doolittle.
Mahsi, Madam Chair. This is something that the department does look at and consider. We do have the clinics here located in Yellowknife and they're set up that way so they can operate have clients represented in each clinic that might be opposing each other. So it is something we look at. The lawyers also need to have colleagues available to talk to them, to discuss ideas, and the court also is set up largely in Yellowknife. They do do circuit courts but having those clinics in the communities, we have had that in the past. There's been one in Inuvik, and the legal aid was moved out of the community. The PPSC, Prosecution Canada, was moved out of the community so it was very difficult to have lawyers legal aid lawyers remain in those communities. The private bar is very small in these communities as well so it is difficult for lawyers to remain there and not have the colleagues to bounce ideas off or talk to. But with a move towards, you know, virtual technology, this is something that perhaps that can be considered in the future. But we are having a very tough time recruiting and retaining lawyers in our department, not just legal but our drafters, our legal division counsel, and recruiting them into smaller communities is difficult, to be honest. So we are struggling even just to get these folks to move to Yellowknife or to stay in Yellowknife let alone the smaller communities, so. But it is on our radar and we are looking at ways to be creative and innovative in trying to attract counsel, both government and private bar members, to Yellowknife and the Northwest Territories. Mahsi, Madam Chair.
Thank you. Member for Yellowknife North.
Yeah, thank you, Madam Chair. Yeah, I recognize it would probably take some concerted effort and, you know, I know we lost we've really been losing our courthouses outside of Yellowknife, and the one in Hay River is really not doing what it used to let alone Inuvik. So I think it would take a very concerted effort by the Department of Justice.
I'm just curious, we have a remote work policy now and there's a possibility for people in Yellowknife to work outside. And, you know, I suspect there is actually probably a few lawyers in the territory who would be willing to relocate to a community for a period of time and maybe even on the side, do some other practice, you know, that is much needed in those communities. Does the remote work policy apply to government lawyers; would they be able to leave Yellowknife? Thank you.
Thank you. Minister of Justice.
Thank you. I don't have the expertise with the remote work policy to answer that. I mean, I can see if the deputy minister knows, understanding that that policy might not be fully fleshed out yet. Thank you.
Thank you. Member for Yellowknife North.
No further questions. I'll bring it up another time. Thank you.
Did you oh, sorry. Deputy minister Doolittle.
Mahsi, Madam Chair. And, yes, it does apply. Lawyers are positions that certainly could work remotely and in our I think we would be a happy to have them in any of our 33 communities. And there currently is an application for somebody to work remotely, not in a community but in the city of Yellowknife as well. So this would be something that would totally apply and we would be open to considering. Mahsi, Madam Chair.
Thank you. Any further questions? No? Okay. Member for Monfwi.
Okay, according to, like according to the GNWT health status report, it says in there that my region has the highest crime rate, and we only have active position. Why is that, when the report when your own report GNWT report says we have the highest crime rate for Tlicho region? Thank you.
Thank you, Member. Minister of Justice.
Thank you, Madam Chair. We can get to later sections in here and the Tlicho will be receiving a number of RCMP positions, and in the past we've added a number of RCMP positions there as well. So we are adding positions, and we have added positions during my time here to that region. Thank you.
Okay, thank you. Are there any further questions from Members?
All right, seeing none. Justice, legal aid services, operations expenditure summary, 20222023 Main Estimates, $7,145,000. Does committee agree?
Agreed.
Thank you. We will now move on to Justice, Office of the Regulator of Oil and Gas Operations, beginning on page 293 with information page on 294. Questions. Member for Frame Lake.
Thanks, Madam Chair. So there's a $700,000 decrease in the budget here for OROGO and two staff are being cut I guess, if I look at page 294. Can I get an explanation as to what's happened here? Thank you.
Thank you. Minister of Justice.
Thank you, Madam Chair. So I have very little to do with OROGO as it is a regulator and it is parked in Justice. So what happened was this division or this activity, and as it is in the main estimates, what was continuously lapsing, money each year, around $600,000. So the department contracted somebody to or a company to have a look at the operations and work with OROGO and make a determination about how much they would actually need to operate, understanding that OROGO was relatively new and it was provided with the budget before it had done anything. And so it was someone's best guess at what a budget would be.
And so understanding based on that review, the decision was made to listen to the recommendation of the review and make a cut to the operational budget. Thank you.
Thank you. Member for Frame Lake.
Thank you, Madam Chair. So the review that was done, has that been made available to the public? And if not and if there needed to be some redactions in terms of personnel matters or whatever, I could understand that, but is that a publicly available document? Thanks, Madam Chair.
Thank you. Minister of Justice.
Thank you. I don't believe it is publicly available. I will have further discussions with the department though about that because I'm always in favour of releasing things publicly where possible. So I will see what we can do on that. Thank you.
Thank you. Member for Frame Lake.
Thanks, Madam Chair. No, I appreciate the Minister's commitment to make that information public, and I'm one of the Members that actually pushed for a rationalization of resources here because there's just very little, if any, interest whatsoever in oil and gas resources in the Northwest Territories. So why continue to spend money on managing them when there's no activity taking place. So I understand and pushed for that work to be done.
So when the money is cut, where does it go? Thanks, Madam Chair.
Thank you. Minister of Justice.
Thank you. And, you know, with recent events in the world's biggest natural gas producer, perhaps there will be an increase in oil and gas activity in the territory. If that's the case, then we'll have to see what the operating budget would need to be under those circumstances. But the OROGO is funded from the general coffers of the GNWT so it goes into the general coffers of the GNWT. Thank you.
Thank you, Minister. Member for Frame Lake.
Okay, thanks. I guess where I'm going with this is that, you know, even in the Minister's opening remarks, and I don't have them in front of me, I can't access them on Lootle. There was not one mention of reductions in the department. And so how was this actual reduction in the main estimates, how does it appear in what the Minister said in classifying the changes in the departmental budget from his opening remarks this morning or earlier this afternoon? Thanks, Madam Chair.
Thank you. Minister of Justice.
Thank you. So it's a reduction. It shows here as it is a reduction as less money this year than there was last year. So there was a cut to this. That money was then used for, you know, something else, the same way all other money in the territory or the GNWT is used for something else. So it went into a big pot of money and then, you know, it was allocated elsewhere. Thank you.
Thank you. Member for Frame Lake.
Thanks for that. Yeah, I'm looking at this. It's clearly a reduction. That's not the way it's classified, though, by the Financial Management Board. I believe this is classified as an FMB approved adjustment. Can the Minister confirm that, yes or no? Thanks, Madam Chair.
Thank you. Minister of Justice.
Thank you. I don't know if I can confirm or deny what is in confidential FMB materials. Thank you.
Thank you. Minister or sorry, Member for Frame Lake.
All right. Well, I don't believe I heard and as I said, I don't have the Minister's opening remarks in front of me and I don't have they're not available on Lootle. I don't believe the Minister said there was any reductions anywhere in the Department of Justice budget. Can the Minister confirm that there were no reductions according to the FMB classifications, because I don't think that was in the Minister's opening remarks. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Member for Frame Lake. Minister of Justice.
Thank you. So I'm seeing right now there's a reduction to OROGO's budget, and Madam Chair, if we could take a sort recess and we can sort of I can speak with the Minister of Finance and perhaps legal counsel and figure out this situation. Thank you.
All right. Let's just take a couple minute break.
SHORT RECESS
Thank you. So I think I might have figured out what the Member was looking for.
So the Department of Justice has a budget and the activities within the Department of Justice have a budget. And there is there was a budget for OROGO last year, and that budget was reduced this year. That difference of the reduction stayed within the Department of Justice. And so I'm not sure if that's what the Member was looking for, but that's where the money went, and it was used to fund other items in the Department of Justice. Thank you.
Thank you, Minister. Member for Frame Lake.
Okay, thanks. And so moving forward in this set of main estimates, there's a reduction that was made, and now that I have the Minister's opening remarks in front of me I see basically that there was some forced growth in the departmental budget. There's some initiatives. There's something called other adjustments. There was reductions in travel and sunsets.
So out of those, the five bulleted items here on the Minister's opening remarks, where does this reduction to the OROGO budget actually fit in in these bulleted categories? Thanks, Madam Chair.
Thank you. Minister of Justice.
