Thank you very much, Mr. Chair. I'll accept fulfilled and ongoing on that one. So thank you to the Premier for that.
One of my points of that one is, for example, the $60 million carveout that is identified under progress to date was a commitment that was made during 2018. So we weren't even within the 19th Assembly at that point. And so this is something that we are thankfully reaping the benefits of, of work that was achieved in the 18th Assembly for that $60 million carveout. And so I'm wondering if there is a commitment from Cabinet to pursue additional carveoffs like that from the National Housing Strategy so that we as well are leaving the 20th Assembly with a similar carveoff of funding for additional housing initiatives. Thank you.
Thank you. Premier.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. Absolutely, I do know that, yes, the coinvestment money was a carveout and it was from the work of last Assembly; however, it was did come into effect in this Assembly. So that is money on the table.
I also know that we're constantly talking. Like I said, it's the biggest priority that we have, I think all of us as Members of this Assembly. So it's not only are we asking at the table. We've identified it in our budget ask to the federal government. Hopefully, we'll see the budget should be coming out in the next month or so hopefully. And so hopefully we'll see more money.
We do know that Indigenous governments are getting a lot of money. And it's in our Arctic and Northern Policy Framework. I'm not sure if the Member's had a chance to review that, but it's also in there as well housing is a key thing. It's so we've been pushing that. The three northern Premiers have been lobbying for housing as our number 1 priority. We're saying housing at every single chance and every single table we have we can. And if the federal government doesn't hear us, my commitment is I will say it louder so that the federal government does hear us, that housing is a core need. Not only core need to the people but a core need to the people, all residents of the NWT. And so I am hopeful that this budget, this federal budget, will see new money coming. And if not, you can count that my voice will get louder at those tables. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, Premier. Ms. Cleveland.
Thank you very much, Mr. Chair. Mr. Chair, I appreciate the commitment of pursuing additional funding that the 19th Assembly can also secure for the 20th Assembly as well. I think that's really important to keep that narrative of housing going and the pursuit of access to safe and secure housing for all Northerners going.
My next comment that I wanted to make in regards to that one is that that first piece of work with partners, including the federal and Indigenous governments to increase funding for housing programs, to me housing programs are completely different than the coinvestment fund and the Rapid Housing Initiative because those, really, are infrastructure dollars for housing. And, in fact, with the Rapid Housing Initiative, it actually came with a caveat of having to secure operations and maintenance dollars for the future of that investment in housing infrastructure and so I really question whether the progress to date of referencing the $60 million carveoff and the Rapid Housing Initiative actually achieves the target of this priority at all, because it doesn't speak to ongoing funding for actual programs for housing. And so the programs in my mind, really would be programs that allow for operations and maintenance on ongoing basis of housing.
And so is, then, really, this item not fulfilled and that really the piece of securing funding for housing programs needs to be more in the form of ongoing consistent funding for operations and maintenance for the NWT Housing Corporation. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you. Premier.
Mr. Chair, actually on this one, I beg to defer with the Member. Being the housing Minister for a few years the last Assembly, I do know that every single program within the Housing Corporation is considered a program, not just operating and maintenance. There's lots of care and mobility, care, care of what 13 programs, and they're all not all of them are just about operate and maintenance, about fixing up homes. Some of them are about fixing up putting technology in so that people can age in place. Some of them are about doing homeownership programs. There's a whole vast of them. They're all called programs. So I beg to differ. So thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you. Ms. Cleveland.
Thank you very much, Mr. Chair. So I'll move down, then, to the address home repair barriers to assist low income seniors and disabled individuals with aging in place. And then I'm happy to see that there were policy changes, then, that took affect that were implemented by the NWT Housing Corporation.
One of the big barriers to housing repair programs in the Northwest Territories is really the cost of the programs. And without an increase, then, to the budget of the NWT Housing Corporation, a policy change is only a portion of that barrier. And so will, then, the Premier commit to ensuring that there's an increase to the budget and the budget asks of the NWT Housing Corporation in our future capital and main estimate budgets? Thank you.
Thank you. Premier.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. The process of the budget negotiations is just that. It's a process of negotiations with Regular Members. I think that the Minister of Finance, myself as Premier, and all the Cabinet, have heard directly from Members in this session about the importance of housing. I know that in the last budget that there was an increase; thank you to Members for further increase with this hearing now again.
I'm not going to say that I'm going to just put in an amount. I have one vote in finance; I don't have seven votes, you know. And so I know it's a need for us. But what I would like to say is let's wait to see what the budget comes from with the federal government. If the federal government is going to give us what I think is going to be substantial money and is going to give Indigenous governments substantial money, my fear is that we will have more money than we can spend. So before I make a commitment that I cannot keep, I'd rather say let me see what comes in this budget, the federal budget, and then ask me on the floor. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, Premier. Ms. Cleveland.
Thank you very much, Mr. Chair. My next question is in regards to the second piece of this priority, which is work with private sector and Indigenous governments to improve the availability of private market and housing options.
We've heard a lot about increases to public housing options in order to address the waitlist, and then we've also heard, especially even in the sitting of the Assembly, how the availability of private market rentals has had an impact on the ability of, even specifically the Minister of Health and Social Services, to fill vacancies in communities, specifically Behchoko and Tuktoyaktuk because of a lack of private market rentals. And so this piece here says fulfilled, but can the Premier speak more specifically to how private market rentals were fulfilled under this line item? Thank you.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. I'd like to refer to the Minister of Housing, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. [Audio] priority, we were able to enhance our agreement with the federal government, looking at the Canada Housing Benefit to really address that, the private market as well. And trying to be innovative as well too and just the recent purchase here in Yellowknife to try to relieve us of those Northview leases here in Yellowknife. But then outside of Yellowknife, I what I have noticed is that the we do have businesses coming forward and expressing interest but not necessarily we have a commitment from them, but then we're open to having those discussions and if there's an opportunity for us to be working with other stakeholders besides what we have been working with so far, then we're open to be working with them. But I just really want to emphasize that with the improvement with our Canada Housing Benefit Program that was reconsidered by the federal government, and we did get an increase in federal funding with that program. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you. Are there any further questions in this section on housing? Mr. Edjericon.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I just want to I'm just looking at that document here in the previous number about affordable housing and reduced core housing needs.
Right now, as it is, you know, we already know that the Housing Corporation's been around for a while. It's actually 50 years now. And how housing and HAP houses and public housing ended in 1993 when Ottawa cut back on social housing, and then that was the beginning of the end of a very good program that was talked about for a long time. And I'm not really sure how how come 2038, I believe that's when these CMHC's looking to cutting funding off to the Housing Corporation, how and how housing's going to be handled. My I did ask that question earlier during budget process as we were going through it. So I'm just going to make a couple comments of maybe the Premier can help clarify a few questions for me on this one here is that, you know, as we talk about new funding coming from Ottawa to to help address the housing needs here in the North, sooner or later we need to ask ourselves as a government, you know, we are at $2.2 billion now we are at 1.6 in the debt limit, the borrowing limit the maximum is 1.8 billion I believe. We're going to be hitting that wall soon. And, you know, our population is going down. The royalties that are coming up with the mining industry is going down. You know, we're really in a tough situation here in the North in terms of the economy with the diamond mines and some of them are at reclamation stage right now, etcetera.
How do we really trying to address the need of housing overall here in the Northwest Territories? And I know the Premier talked about trust and new relationship, and it's true. You know, the Housing Corporation needs to look at a new vision, a new mandate. Sooner or later, you know, land claims are going to be done. Selfgovernment agreements are going to be done. And, you know, some of these agreements that are already in place have chapters in there for housing and then how they're going to, you know, work with Ottawa or work with the territorial governments to how the money's going to go from this pot to this pot so they could address their own needs, etcetera. If they hadn't said that, though, you know, my concern is that, you know, what happens when we reach that limit in terms of going to Ottawa and saying hey look, you know, we need to increase our debt limit? What happens if they say no? You know, I mean, they may not say no but I'm just saying sooner or later, as a government, we really need to take a look at ourselves within the government here. So I haven't said that. I mean, we may need to really look at, you know the days of the Housing Corporation being 50 years old, we may have to go back and restructure that and really look at that piece of pie and how that's going to be carved up, if that's what, you know being something that needs to be talked about.
But sooner or later, it's concerning now that you know, right now I'll just mention in the budget here for this fiscal year, you know, our budget for just to repair public housing is $3.4 million, and there's $1.7 million for homeownership repairs for 33 communities in the Northwest Territories but yet I still have constituent members calling me and saying that my bathtub is full of that sewer's backed up in there again. And again, the policies are there that are hindering, you know, constituent people in our communities from getting homeownership repairs because they don't qualify or if they make too much or if they don't make too much. So there's a lot of work that needs to be done in some of areas.
So my concern would be to the Premier is that what happens when we reach that limit with Ottawa and how do we fix these problems? Because I know that it's a big issue but at the same time, you know, I I heard new vision, new mandate, but yet the Housing Corporation is 50 years old already. You know, so I just want to get some of your feedback. Thank you.
Thank you. Premier.
I mean, I have the same concerns as the Member. I mean, I I'm old; I'm 61 years old, and I don't like to borrow money. I learned a long time ago don't borrow it because if you can't pay it back, you're in trouble. And if you can't live within your means, you're in bigger trouble. So I think that we have learn that. It's not as simple as just going and asking for more money every time we hit the limit.
We're going to have to make tough choices, not only this Assembly, in the next Assembly as well. There's going to have to be really tough choices. When you got 22 priorities, you're not making tough choices; you're trying to address them all.
Housing, like I said, that's why I came into politics because I cared about housing; I cared about people that weren't getting in to housing, people that were on the streets and people that were struggling to keeping their homes. That's why you'll see one little tiny one in here. I have to thank my colleague Minister Green who stood beside me on this one. The only one I fought for really hard in all of these priorities when it came to was the one that says "transition 100 individuals/families to homeownership", because I do believe, from my experience from all the years I've worked with low income families and just the couple of years I was housing minister, I seen the HAP houses and I seen homeownership and I seen that people that own their own house took care of those houses. Not all of them; there's always people that fall through the cracks. But the majority of them took care of those houses. There was pride in them. Their furnaces were heated and their houses were clean and their kids were fed. It made a difference.
And I also seen the other side when they were in public housing units. In one community I use it all the time 400 windows in one community I had to fix as the housing Minister. Why? Because people didn't care. They didn't own those houses. So as soon as I fixed those windows, they would kids were breaking them in the community. That taught me that homeownership is the key.
I hear Mr. Chair talking about HAP houses. I was also impressed with that.
So if we can make this priority in this one little piece here that says transition 100 people into homeownership that are in public housing now, hopefully, my hope is that that's going to prove what I suspect all along, and that we will continue, not only in this Assembly but in Assemblies to come, we need to give people the houses that they ask for.
People Indigenous people have told me from the beginning the federal government promised us housing. I haven't forgotten that. And I believe you don't reward bad behavior. So if people are wrecking their homes, you don't give them the home to own; they need to be in public housing. But if they are taking care of the homes, reward them. And that's going to help address that 2038 number. Because you're right, 2038's the operating and maintenance money's supposed to be gone. However, some of you will be here in 2038 and I have faith in politicians that the federal government, they might say that they're going to put it off the table but they hopefully, there will be wise politicians of the day that will not let that happen. So thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you. Mr. Edjericon.
Thank you, Premier, for your comments. Going forward, though, again, I'm only adding to the discussion because, I mean, I wasn't here at the beginning of this whole thing, but I think in order to continue to build new trust and new relationship with Indigenous governments, I think this government's going to have to really take a look as to how we're going to deal with the issue of housing, how we're going to work with Indigenous governments, but most importantly we're going to have to work around the policies that are already in place. And if there's a way where we can look at maybe working with those Indigenous governments, we can do it through the contribution agreement, because to eliminate the if we were to use the Housing Corporation or even the policy becomes barriers, etcetera, the aboriginal governments and Indigenous governments, they also have capacity. You know, they have good people working there. And, you know, it's only a place for them to continue to grow. So we if there's a way we could build on that and really work to build that trust and look for new relationships, because we seen what the Housing Corporation did in the last 50 years. But now as claims get settled, you know, we're going to have to look at new way of doing business. And I know that I mentioned it before, there's also going to have to be some constitutional discussions down the road anyway and it's kind of if all the claims were done today, how is that how is this government going to take shape? And so those are some of the things that we need to talk about. So anyways, new relationships and looking at new contributions ways of being working with aboriginal governments. Mahsi.
Premier.
I'd like to defer that one to Minister Chinna.
Minister Chinna.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. I love this question because, you know what, I come from a settled land claim area and also selfgovernment is happening in my riding as well too. We've got some seven of those discussions happening right now. And housing has often come up but one of the things that I really pride on is Indigenous partnership and looking at new ways of doing business in the smaller communities.
I just want to just reflect very quickly on my riding is that my home community of Fort Good Hope had created the K'asho Got'ine Housing Society, because they were tired of dealing with our programs, with our the way that we allocate money, and working with the local housing authorities. So they came together. They created the society. So now we are working in partnership where they're able to look at operate not operate repairs for homeownership in their communities. And this is something that I'm really wanting to do across the Northwest Territories.
But also the Housing Corporation has entered into several partnerships as well too. And like I had said, they range from, you know, cleaning fuel tanks, replacing fuel tanks, stairs, sidings, pilings, and whatever that that is a priority in those communities.
And also working with them, I want to say the collaboration that is happening as well too, that we're going to see more of those announcements coming forward. We do have 18 months in this government and I'm guaranteeing that you're going to see a lot of improvement within the corporation that I would like to now be more focused on as well as what is going to be left for the next government and what kind of funding allocations are we going to be able to pursue through the federal government, also looking at the federal pots that are there too.
There's a number of coinvestment applications that have been submitted by Indigenous groups. I want to say the last number I looked at was 16. And they're going through the process as too. They want to own housing as well.
The corporation is also available to be working with those Indigenous groups as well. One of the ones that I'm ready proud and we've made a lot of headway with is with the Metis and working with Mr. Bailey in his community as well too and in looking at his submission and looking at improvements and where we can actually meet halfway.
So just establishing those relationships, improving them, is a priority of what it is that I would like to accomplish within this portfolio. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you. Are there any further questions on increase the number of affordable homes and reduce core housing need?
Seeing none, committee, we will move to pages 23 to 24: Settle and implement treaty land, resources, and selfgovernment agreements. Questions? Mr. Johnson.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. One of the goals here was that the GNWT was going to publish its principles and interests. You know, we're really supposed to have done that spring 2021; it's now spring 2022 and we haven't. But I see here that in the coming months it's supposed to be published. Does the Premier have an update of when those principles and interests will be published. Thank you.
Thank you. Premier.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. I'll start it now and then turn it to Martin for more dipping into that and the timing.
So the first step we did was we reviewed the whole thing through Cabinet. Cabinet has reviewed them all. We will be working with the standing committee. We will also be working with the Indigenous governments. And then we will be releasing them.
But Martin, do you have more sorry, through you, Mr. Chair, if I could turn to the deputy minister to give a more definitive timeline for those actions to happen.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. And the goal is to have that work completed so we can share at least in draft with standing committee and begin conversations with Indigenous governments about them in the coming days. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you. Mr. Johnson.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. Yeah, I look forward to getting these out there and I think they give something for the public to have a conversation about. They give, you know, something for Regular MLAs to talk to Indigenous governments about. They allow us to have some sort of negotiation conversation in public. But to me, this I would view this as step one. I reviewed the federal principles and interests. You know, there's not a lot of controversy in what they say but then they went, and they made a lot of significant changes to their negotiating mandates on very specific things, you know, such as funding formulas or cede and surrender clauses; you know, things that really get into the weeds that I suspect these principles and interests will not do.
So my question is once these are finalized, is there then a plan to overhaul the mandates that our negotiators have, you know, that those are not public documents; they're not the other parties at the negotiating table will see them but they're really what's driving it. So I'm wondering if these will then flow into an overhaul of our mandate directions. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you. Premier.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. So I think it's going to do two things. One, it's going to open it up so that there will be more dialogue and more things that we might be able to challenge, not only ourselves but Indigenous governments can challenge us on. Even in the Cabinet review, we've already made some things that said why are we doing that? So we've already started that process, in fairness.
The other thing that it's going to do for me, which is just as big if not bigger, is that there's this misperception out there that we have these hidden mandates and they're really secretive. And I think all Cabinet Members would agree that when we reviewed them, they're not really like the federal government, they're not these mysterious things that change at every table. They're pretty basic. So I am thinking that once we have them out there, it'll solve a lot of contention that people are afraid that they're making different deals at different tables, because I think that's a part of the problem. So I think it's going to do twofold. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, Premier. Mr. Johnson.
No further questions, Mr. Chair. I'll just note that the Standing Committee on Reconciliation and Indigenous Affairs plans to table our interim report in the coming days so I expect we'll have much more conversation following it. Thank you.
Thank you. Premier.
Don't ask me because I just talked, but thank you, and I'm looking forward to reading that report because I've actually already seen a brief preview of it so I'm not sure what I'm supposed to say. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you. Are there any further questions? Ms. Martselos.
On page 23, Mr. Chair, the two agreements that have been concluded are two final transboundary agreements. Are there going to be consultation with Indigenous governments within the jurisdiction of the Northwest Territories before these are ratified?
Thank you. Premier.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. Actually, those consultations should be almost finished by now, actually. What I can say, Mr. Chair, is I heard that there was some contention about them, and I had my own contentions about them.
We were my understanding is that when those agreements were first done, it was agreements bilateral, not trilateral. The NWT wasn't part of the discussions. It was those Indigenous governments and Canada. And we had to fight to get at that table. And what when I first took over and that was just at the beginning of the consultation, it was kind of a signed deal, the Indigenous governments from the other jurisdictions asked me, how do you think the Indigenous governments in the NWT will take this? And my answer to them, because I like to be honest, was probably the same way you would take it when we come in to your land.
So I think that there was I'm looking forward to seeing the report. I'm not sure if we'll get the consultation or if that's just federal government's going to get that. Martin might be able to speak more to that. But I do think there will be some issues.
But I've also been talking about the Indigenous to the Indigenous governments here. If other jurisdictions are allowed to do that because of their hunting rights, then why aren't we looking at that as well? And I have heard from some of the governments that they will be looking at that, because hunting didn't stop at borders. Those borders are defined by God knows who? But it wasn't Indigenous people. So if it's good for the goose, it's good for the gander. So I've been telling Indigenous groups here, look south, my friends, look south.
Mr. Chair, I'm not sure if Martin could expand if we're going to actually see the results of that consultation piece or if that just goes to the federal government. But I wouldn't mind asking him through you.
Chair, so the consultation period has ended and the parties are just now considering what they've heard and evaluating whether or not the text of agreement needs to change as a result. And so that's how the feedback will be reflected if there are changes to that consultation draft agreement. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you. Ms. Martselos.
So the two agreements only include the harvesting? I thought I think is there only the harvesting that because once a transboundary agreement include land, there's a under section 35, there's a there's a barrier to any future development because you'll have to consult the person outside the boundary; am I correct? Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you. Premier.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. No, they don't but for a concise answer on that, I'd like to turn to the deputy minister again to talk about the areas that they do in
Sure. Mr. Chair, and the two proposed agreements do include more than just harvesting rights, including a bit of land selection and provisions respecting participation in future decisionmaking. So the Member is correct that the potential scope of consultation might broaden as a result of these agreements. But even if it were just a development that had potential effect on harvesting rights, that obligation to consult would still be triggered. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you. Ms. Martselos.
Well I beg to differ, Mr. Chair. Once you have an outside group owning land here in the territories, they have a right to section 35 and that means in any jurisdiction. That section 35 comes into play even if you want to open a mine and if they decide that they don't want to do that or they want to have IBAs for that or if they want to have ownership, they have that right just like any other Indigenous group in the territory, and I don't know if that has been conveyed to all the leadership in the Northwest Territories.
And when I stand here, that means it doesn't only affect Indigenous people; it affects all the nonIndigenous people in the whole territory. So I just want to know how you're going to address that, Mr. Chair.
