Thank you, Member. Minister.
Thank you, Madam Chair. So, Madam Chair, this isn't just, to be clear, a function of the circumstances of the labour market shortages that all of Canada and the world are experiencing today. This is reflective of, you know, the last ten years that we saw that, you know, the average spend in the last ten years year over year is around $250 million per year. So it's not new that we simply don't have the capacity in the North alone to be getting out to have much more than that spent in any particular given year. So it's not entirely a function of current labour market shortages. It is a function in part of general labour shortages in the North. You know, and to that I would say that over the course of that time, certainly before my time here or, you know, at the time of the 19th Assembly there have been efforts at increasing the population through, you know, various forms of recruitment. And they've also obviously not been successful. So, you know, I don't know that that alone is going to entirely solve the problem. I think there should be a broader look at increasing the population, increasing the economy, having a positive and pleasant and wonderful place to come and live and work as we all know it to be. Does that change the fact that for the last ten years or more the capital budget has been oversized relative to what we could perform? No, it doesn't. So fixing this problem doesn't mean we don't want to look at increasing the population. But I just want to kind of separate out that that isn't necessarily going to take away the reasons that we've done now what we've done now, which is to right size the capital plan, reduce the need to borrow, and to put money into planning. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Minister. Member for Hay River South.
Thank you, Madam Chair. I guess my concern is that, you know, this government goes to the federal government and seeks funding for initiatives that we want to undertake. And now we have to go back to the federal government and tell them that we can't complete the work that we promised we're going to complete in a timely manner. So I guess I would ask the Minister does she see that as an impediment now to securing, you know, federal funding for the new initiatives? Because if we're not spending the money on what we're supposed to and finish those projects, is the government or does she think that the government's going to be a little more reluctant to fund our projects, and has she had actually any discussions with her counterparts? Thank you.
Thank you, Member. Minister of Finance.
Thank you, Madam Chair. Madam Chair, one of the sources of, you know, concern that's been raised has actually been colleagues in the federal government who have said, you know, why aren't you spending more? What are you spending? You know, and they want to have accountability for the dollars that they are committing to the Northwest Territories. So if there are projects that are delayed or stalled, again for a variety of reasons, but it may well but for whatever reason it may be that attaches to any particular project, you know, they would rather know that when we have a properly sized budget that they can then be held accountability to deliver upon and be more focused on the reasons that a project might get held back. So it's not to say that some of these projects won't still face some sort of delay but, you know, we're not looking at a monstersized envelope that is more likely to see that.
Federal departments have been consulted, certainly a lot of officialslevel conversations have been had. I know myself and Minister Archie have had conversations when the federal Minister of Infrastructure was here. And the messaging actually was, you know, figure out what you can do and to focus on that. So I actually think this will be a positive signal to them. Thank you.
Thank you, Minister. Member for Hay River South.
Thank you, Madam Chair. You know, again, you know, I've got a real concern because I look at, you know, some of the projects that are getting pushed back and just as an example, you know, the extended care facility in Hay River backed to 20272028, you know, and then I see that well, they're going to reevaluate. Well, I'm not exactly sure what that means.
You know, we talk about you know, we've had flooding. We talk about dredging. And, you know, we're going to be looking for money for that. Are we going to get turned down because of our inability to you know, to complete what we're supposed to complete. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Member. I'll take that as a comment. Did you have any further questions for the Minister or any other comments?
That was just a comment.
Thank you. Are there any further questions, comments? Member for Tu NedheWiilideh.
Thank you. Thank you, Madam Chair. A couple questions: the reduction that you have here, we have got a total capital budget of $328 million. In regards to my riding, this fiscal year with $3.4 million for public housing repairs with no homeownership repairs in the communities, I am just wondering like, and my colleague, Mr. O'Reilly talked about the you know, the percentage in terms of highways and versus housing etcetera, my question to the Minister: is this budget here carved in stone, or can that be adjusted? Thank you.
Thank you, Member. Minister of Finance.
Thank you, Madam Chair. So, Madam Chair, this is the proposed capital budget. So that's it's before the House now for discussion, and, you know, that's exactly the point here. It's not approved before it's approved by this House. So, you know, that's precisely the discussions we are to be having over the next short while. Yes, thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you. Member for Tu NedheWiilideh.
Thank you, Madam Chair. Also during the budgeting process back in March of this year, there were some discussions that was happening in regards to monies made to a committee, about $5 million worth to housing. I'm not really sure exactly, I've never seen no breakdown of this $5 million as to where the money's going and who's getting this $5 million. Can the Minister maybe just elaborate a little bit on that. Thank you.
Thank you, Member. Minister of Finance.
Thank you, Madam Chair. I think that the MLA is referencing discussions that were had between myself and colleagues on the other side when we were preparing the main estimates and passing the main estimates. And I certainly can, you know, provide I believe this information has been provided, but I'm happy to go through it again.
There were increases, at the conclusions of those discussions, made to various program budgets within Housing NWT. It was, I believe, $6.6 million that was committed in addition, as part of the main estimates’ discussions, to fund projects that are specifically directed where they money that goes out to constituents, goes out to residents. So, for example, you know I'm drawing a blank. But, you know, things where people can do their own constructions, they can do their own renovations, they can do their own upgrades, and that money has moved out $4 million and then ongoing. So anyways, I certainly can provide confirmation of what's gone out one by one if that would be of assistance. Thank you.
Thank you, Minister. Member for Tu NedheWiilideh.
Thank you, Madam Chair. This year, when I went through the budget and went through the committees and we discussed it in the House here, at the end of the day I voted against the budget. And mainly because of there was really nothing there. We got rounded off to 2 percent of the overall budget that we got in my riding. And that's still concerning.
My question, again, to the Minister is that if this is not carved in stone and we could have further discussion on this, whether it would be highways being 30 percent and housing 11 percent, is there a way we could increase that so that we are really addressing the need of housing but yet still meeting the mandate of this government that was put forward in 2019, and that mandate overall?
But having said that, though, if that's an if we can look at that but at the same time it would be nice if we could start working the Indigenous governments because right now as it is, we're going to have to figure a way to do things better and maybe through a contribution agreement because right now there's still we're still dealing with all of the bureaucratic red tape in the government, and I just thought maybe we could maybe look at this. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Member. Minister of Finance.
Thank you, Madam Chair. So, Madam Chair, I mean, as I said, certainly that's the point of bringing the matter here is for us all as an Assembly to have an opportunity to discuss how to spend the public dollars we are responsible for as a collective. And certainly, you know, some budgets could be adjusted, and maybe there is, you know, money made I know there's going to be probably requests to increase some areas. I would just sort of keep in mind, or urge people to keep in mind, that if we are increasing the overall plan, then we are again adding dollars into the plan that we know we will not spend all of that. We already over the last ten years have never spent anywhere near $300 million, and this one already is over $300 million. We will no doubt have some carryovers from that. So if there's requests to increase, then two things to be kept in mind: One, not all of it can be delivered upon. But two, it does mean we're then having to take on the debt to deliver it, particularly, you know well yes, we would have to take on the debt to deliver upon it and increase the borrowing plan, which puts us closer to the borrowing limit. So again, everything's to be discussed. But just to keep in mind what the consequences of those discussions are. Yes, thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Minister. Member for Tu NedheWiilideh.
Thank you, Madam Chair. When I was elected back on February 10th of this year, two years earlier the GNWT went through elected all the MLAs for this Assembly, for the 19th Assembly, and they had a meeting where they brought all their wants and needs for their constituency and the NWT. When I came in, I never had that opportunity and I looked at some of the capital plans. So for N'dilo, Dettah, Lutselk'e, and Fort Resolution, we do have our own wants and needs as well. But I just want to we brought this issue to the Minister a few years ago with chief Marlowe, and he raised the issue in Lutselk'e in regards to the dust problem in that community. If there's a way we can look at that, either start developing some kind of chip seal program for that community so we could address the dust problem. And that dust problem's been there for a long time and hasn't been really addressed. And then that's the same thing in Fort Resolution, in the community of Fort Resolution. We should really take a look at doing a chip seal program in that community. And that's a concern. But overall, Madam Chair, if we could take a look at this, then maybe I'll be in favour of voting in favour of this budget. Thank you.
Thank you, Member. Are there any further general comments to the capital plan? Member for Nunakput.
Thank you, Madam Chair. You know, just in regards to, like my colleague, Mr. Johnson, I am liking the new format of the spending on our and I see so much that says Nunakput on it, so I'll be supporting this for sure. And it's good to see. But just a couple of questions I do have with the contracts that we do have out, the numbers I got start off with the Mangilaluk School.
We have a contract that's out. We asked for reports I guess, on who's hired, like for community, because I know there's not too many community hires in the community of Tuk. And it's all seems to be outsiders, so. And we asked for a plan, a scope, business scope for the project and we haven't received it yet from the contractors and it's been going on two years now. I just want to make sure that our government is making sure that they're staying on top of it in regards to getting that plan so my leadership could see it because my leadership's asking me the same thing. So I think if anything I know that the department did go into the community, but I know that they were busy taking a look at the site so they were too busy to meet with my leadership. So I think on the next go around, I think if they're able to come into the community to meet with my leadership through the mayor of Tuk and the hamlet, the community corporation, I think that would be a good thing just to try to work together because it's too big of a project in the middle of a community. It's a good project that's well needed, and but I think that has to be done.
Number two, the upgrades on the TukInuvik Highway. The upgrades that we have, how much you know, there's a couple of sections on there where it's flat for the permafrost. It's getting more dangerous. Frost heaves are coming up when it gets colder now; it just pops up out of nowhere. So we're looking at the cost how much it's going to cost our government and to make sure that they're, you know, talking with the contractors on that road to make sure that they're doing the sections that mostly needed for safety, public safety, and to keep that road upgraded for years to come.
And our liquefied natural gas. I see it in here for M18. From my understanding that M18 is being put into mitigation in regards to our permission to go on Tuk 71A lands, which were our land claim is signed and you're on Tuk 71A lands as being the people of Tuk own that land and access to it access to that gas. I want to know where we're going with this in regards with my Minister in regards to seeing what's going to happen. Because if we're a land claim group, we already were signed since 1984. This is a good news story because one, we're going to we're going to service Inuvik with natural gas. We're not getting it all the way from BC. Safety aspects on the Dempster Highway. And it creates jobs for the community. But we have to find a way to get and push that issue in regards to making sure that M18 is a go and not being stalled like they did with the Mackenzie Valley pipeline. That's really for myself that's like a slap in the face as an Inuvialuit beneficiary that you're on our land. You want our and we're going to give you our gas? We're resource rich and cash poor. And our people, we have to work together as a government, with the Inuvialuit, as a community corporation, to get this project off and running in the right direction. So that's all I have to say. But thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Member. And just a reminder to all of the great comments, I hope you say them again when we have the Minister and the witnesses in front of us to bring those issues out and possibly get some more detailed answers.
I will go now to Member for Thebacha and then Deh Cho.
Thank you, Madam Chair. I just believe that a balanced approach to budgeting is important. You can't have it all one way, though. It has to be kind of balanced because your outputs when you're doing business with people within the territory and you're working for the members of the NWT, there's so much lack of infrastructure in the tiny communities and regional centres that those cannot be ignored. And if there is not enough staff that are qualified to make sure those deadlines and those projects are completed, then what is happening? You know, we have all this staff per capita, with bureaucratic staff in the territories per capita, to other individuals in the territories, it's phenomenal. So actually, you know, you wonder how is this how is the thinking going you think about it, and in a business world that would never happen.
One of the things that I am very concerned about is the homelessness in Fort Smith. And it must be addressed. You know, we came up with an innovative idea of tiny homes for a pilot project so the person actually would have a small home, that are homeless, and they take care of it and they look after it themselves. And those kind of ideas have got to be taken seriously. If you're just going to put them in another place where it's another burden to someone else, that's not going to build their esteem; that's not going to build them up to be a better person; it's not going to it's a really not a winwin situation. And I want the Cabinet and the Minister of Finance to rethink some of these issues.
And I think you know, and we talk about housing across the territories. I was able to visit a couple of communities this summer. You know, we went to a few and even in Lutselk'e, you know, you look around the community and, you know, you find the people very happy but, you know and with what with what they have. And, you know, compared to everywhere else, it's not enough. It's you know, you wonder how anyone could actually survive in a community where you don't have choices. And, you know, so we have to think a little bit differently because we serve a different population in the North. Where, you know, cost is phenomenal; you know, there's not a lot of infrastructure and people look forward to projects in their communities and in the regional centres, you know. And I am trying not to take away from Yellowknife. We're not trying to take away anything from here. Nothing shuts down here. But many times there are things that do shut down in our areas for lack of persistence from people who do not do their jobs in some offices. So I just want to make sure that, you know I like the balanced approach, but we also got to be very aware that in the business world, this would not take place, that you have the money, you spend the money, and you make money. You know, and if you don't start thinking in that way and, you know, I don't agree with some of my colleagues’ aspects with regards to the Taltson Hydro Expansion. Yellowknife needs that Taltson Hydro Expansion; that's probably why it's going ahead. You know, Fort Smith is fine. But, you know, I'm very happy and I supported it 100 percent, 150 percent, 200 percent, because that's the way things are going in this world. And for greener energy, it's the perfect energy. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Member for Thebacha. General comments, Member for Deh Cho.
Mahsi, Madam Chair. Madam Minister, it is noted here that highways and roads take up 30 percent, the largest chunk of the budget. I'm not sure what work this all entails but every year, we're fixing up pretty much maybe same sections every year or every two years. I'm wondering you know, the reason I'm looking at this and if we and, you know, if someone could live with, if there were potholes for several years. Because the hamlet of Enterprise, it is the only community in the whole of the Northwest Territories, without a school. They've been asking, requesting for a school I think for over 15 years, 20 years, and recently, over the last couple years, year or so, all the documentation was lost. Enterprise is the first community coming into the Northwest Territories. And there's not much attention being given to the community the hamlet of Enterprise in terms of infrastructure. And a school is much needed in the community of this size to draw people to the community, you know, and then you can build capacity within. All they're asking for is an elementary school. You know, they have very many concerns about the extreme weather conditions that are happening lately, probably due to climate change, and they have a lot of young children, and mothers have to wake up early, you know, to prepare them for the bus. So there's a safety concern in all this.
The hamlet of Enterprise, we need to help them to grow, and that begins with a school. You know, I'm not we're not asking for much here. We're asking for consideration to get the groundwork going and maybe preplanning at this stage, which is not a lot. Like I say, somebody could live with a little bit of potholes for a year or two longer and we could make this a reality for the hamlet of Enterprise. And together as a government, we can see, watch as the community grows. So I really hope that you would make consideration for that as the Minister of Finance. Mahsi.
Thank you, Member. Are there any further general comments? So we'll move on to the detail. We'll proceed to the detail tabled document beginning with the Legislative Assembly. Speaker, does the Speaker wish to bring witnesses into the Chamber?
Madam Chair.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Sergeantatarms, please escort the witnesses into the Chamber.
Welcome. Mr. Speaker, would you please introduce your witnesses.
Thank you, Madam Chair. With me today we have our sergeantatarms, Brian Thagard. Also Kim Wickens, our deputy clerk, Members and precinct services.
Thank you. Committee has agreed to forego general comments on this section. Is the committee agreed to proceed to the detail in the tabled document?
Agreed.
Okay, thank you. Committee, the Legislative Assembly begins on page 14, and we'll defer the Legislative Assembly totals and review the estimates by activity summary beginning at page 15, with the Office of the Clerk with information items on page 16. And I'm just going to remind Members that you have ten minutes to speak to the item if you wish to speak and to use your ten minutes if you're going to because I will not go back to the Member. So thank you.
Any questions on the Legislative Assembly? Member for Frame Lake.
Thanks, Madam Chair, and thanks to our valued guests. So the information we've got here in the capital estimates are that this allocation of $200,000 is for building accessibility upgrades. Can we just get some details of what's expected here? Thanks, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Member for Frame Lake. Mr. Speaker.
Thank you, Madam Chair. Good question there, Member for Frame Lake. The proposed upgrade is to ensure that accessibility for employees and members of the public is a priority in creating barrierfree washrooms. Thank you.
Thank you. Member for Frame Lake.
Thanks, Madam Chair, and thanks to the Speaker for that information. So when we say "barrierfree washrooms" is that just on this main floor, or is it throughout the building? And is it, like widening of doors, stalls; generally what kind of work is going to be done? Thanks, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Member. Mr. Speaker.
Thank you, Madam Chair. Some of the improvements that will be conducted are actually on both floors, which includes design features that convert the two existing nonaccessible washrooms at the end of the executive hallway into full accessibility accessible facilities and to ensure sufficient space for the upgrades, two additional rooms in the immediate area, janitor's closet, and Committee Room A storage room will be configured into new washroom spaces. Thank you.
Thank you. Member for Frame Lake.
No, thanks. I want to thank the Speaker and our staff for doing the work to plan for this. I support this expenditure money to make the building more accessible, and I think the Speaker's going to get off a little easy today. But appreciate the work, thank you. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Member. Are there any further questions, comments under Legislative Assembly? Seeing no further questions. I'll call it.
Legislative Assembly, office of the clerk, infrastructure investments, $200,000. Does committee agree?
Agreed.
Thank you, Members. Please return now to the legislative summary found at page 14, Legislative Assembly, 20232024 Capital Estimates, $200,000. Member for Frame Lake.
