Yeah, thanks, Madam Chair. Okay, I'll just make a suggestion to the Minister, that if he needs some extra money to kind of get this work done quickly so that all the asset plans are done, you know, within a reasonable period of time, I'd be happy to support that as a supplemental appropriation, because we need that information to calculate and track what the municipal funding gap is. If communities and MACA don't know what their assets are, how do you know what the gap is? So is that something the department is prepared to look at, is what it would take to get this work done a little more quickly than the pace that it seems to have happened at. Thanks, Madam Chair.
Thank you. Minister of MACA.
Thank you. So it is one of our priorities to get done, and we're working with NWTAC on that. But for clarity on how the process is done, I'll turn to the deputy minister with your permission, Madam Chair.
Thank you. Deputy minister.
Thank you, Madam Chair. As Minister Thompson said, we are working with the NWTAC on asset management planning. It's a concern of community governments as well as the NWTAC board.
In terms of, you know, how the lack of asset management plans relates to the mandate funding gap, we do have considerable amount of asset management data. We used it for our 2014 municipal gap review. We get so the community governments belong to a common insurance company called Norsix. They share their insurance data with us. You know, it's a big piece of their work to make sure all of their assets are insured. We have that data. We have a lot of data from, you know, prenew deal on the nature and level of assets.
For those communities where we don't have a complete listing, you know, we do have regional staff who are aware of communities and are aware of what assets are in place in each community. So that is how we've worked with the NWTAC to quantify the asset management gap, using data from community governments and own source. So we're certainly on that. Thank you.
Thank you. Member for Frame Lake.
Look, if you guys need some extra money to get this work done by hiring a few consultants to go in and work with communities to get inventories done, please do it, bring it forward in a supplementary appropriation so we can get this done quick. Thanks, Madam Chair. That's all I have.
Thank you. Member for Thebacha.
Thank you, Madam Chair. I guess my first question is your community governments share a capital formula funding and your municipal funding gap, are they based on need or per capita?
Thank you, Member. Minister of MACA.
Based on both.
Thank you. Member for Thebacha.
So if you really want to think out of the box, Madam Chair, I think the Minister has to clarify what he just said because, you know, when you have a city of Yellowknife at a $58 million surplus and rising taxes for the residents, because I had a lot of people from Yellowknife tell me that the taxes were risen quite there was a big rise in taxes here, obviously the capital isn't suffering.
Whereas on the other hand, if you really want to address the municipal funding gap and the capital formula funding for communities and regional centres, we've got to reverse the way we think. And sometimes it takes a lot of leadership in order to make proper right decisions to address some of those gaps. And I just want to know how if the Minister is willing to think out of the box and show some leadership with regards to these gaps? Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Member. Minister of MACA.
So we're working with NWTAC, as I said previously. We're also working with our three or our other two territorial governments, Nunavut and the Yukon, to reach out to the federal government to talk about this. We're working collaboratively with NWTAC and their sister organizations on a plan we're trying to address. And when we look outside the box and inside the box, we are making the commitment to have four programs or policies that we have and they're going to be done this fiscal year. So it's going to be done, prepared, and working with them. So we are addressing this. We have 33 communities, and we're working with them to make sure that their needs are met where we can. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Minister. Member for Thebacha.
Well, 32 communities are waiting for a more to fill the gap, Madam Chair. And I want to know how the Minister is going to address that. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you. Minister of MACA.
Thank you. As I said before, we're working with NWTAC and working with the municipalities, we're fixing the policies. And as we moved forward, we're also reaching out to the federal government. So we got a number of prongs moving forward to address this. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Minister. Minister of Thebacha.
Thank you, Madam Chair. 32 communities are not at this table to vote for this budget, though. Okay. It comes through us that and we represent the people out there. And, you know, I just want to make sure that those gaps are looked at seriously because when you go around the communities and regional centres, there's a lot of infrastructure that is lacking. The municipal funding gap is there in those 32 communities, and I want to know how you're going to address that. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Member. Minister of MACA.
Thank you. I don't know how to make it any clearer. We're working with NWTAC. We're working so that's 33 communities there. We are working to fix the policy. The policies the four policies will be going to committee. Committee will have that opportunity to look there. We're also looking to the federal government to see if they are able to help us. I have we've reached out to the two territorial Ministers already. We've had conversations. And, again, as I said, we're working with NWTAC and they're working with their sister organizations so we can work collaboratively to be able to address this. This is just not an NWT issue. It is also a Nunavut and Yukon, and so we're trying to work together with that. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Minister. Member for Thebacha.
I don't have any further questions; I don't get a direct answer anyways. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Member. Any further questions under this? Member for Hay River South.
Thank you, Madam Chair. I just want to read something out here from the information we got. It says here the department's responsible for the development and maintenance of community governments responsive and responsible to the residents with sufficient legal authority and resources to carry out community responsibilities to provide their public programs and services essential to good community life and to deal effectively with other governments and organizations. The department is also responsible for protecting interests of consumers.
Madam Chair, I guess what I'm looking for is that I just want to go the issue of flooding and MACA's I guess response in how they're dealing with that in terms of mitigation and how that's going to be funded, how those mitigation measures will be funded for the community of Hay River, hopefully prior to, you know, next season to avoid any you know, any yeah, any other flooding, at least severe flooding. So, you know, what's I guess what are they doing, and have they identified any money for a capital budget? Because there will be, you know, berms and different initiatives that are going to be required to provide those mitigation measures. Thank you.
Thank you, Member. Minister of MACA.
So we've identified $175 million for the recovery. Part of that is with mitigation. We're also working with the federal government to see what they are able to provide us, and we're also working with other funding sources or trying to find other sources to address this. So as I said on the floor today, we're working with the federal government, we're working with the town, we're working with the K'atlodeeche First Nations. So we're working together with them. But we also have to work with the federal government to be able to provide funding to us towards that. So the mitigation, again, the Town of Hay River's come to us with a list. We've reached out to the federal government. We're working with the federal government on that. We're also as I said, we have we set out a budget of $175 million approximately for this flood recovery for the town of Hay River and K'atlodeeche First Nation. And so we have money right now. And as for the mitigation part, the funding we're trying to find other sources as well. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you. Member for Hay River South.
Thank you, Madam Chair, and I appreciate that answer. I guess when it comes to mitigation, can you give me a sense, I guess, when you're talking about mitigation, exactly what it entails. Are we just talking about mitigation for the, you know, for the homeowner, like lifting their homes? Or are we talking something wider, like I say, berming and the maybe the buy back of land, those type of things? Thank you.
Thank you, Member. Minister of MACA.
So yes, so it's a long list. If the committee wants it, we can provide that list. There's like, there is everything the Member talked about is part of it. It's lifting homes, moving infrastructure within the homes up to another floor, looking at, you know, buy back of land and other items as well. So if that's what we have to do, then that's part of the mitigation plan process. So there is a long list and if the Member wishes to see the long list it's not exhaustive. It could be again, we could provide you what we have. But there could be exemptions or other stuff that we haven't thought about, and as we move it's a living document so it could be added. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you. Member for Hay River South.
Thank you, Madam Chair. And I appreciate that. And I would like to see that list in case I can add anything to it because, you know, when we talk mitigation, you know, we're talking about within the boundaries of Hay River and K'atlodeeche First Nation. But there's also things that we possibly could be doing outside that those boundaries. So that's kind of what I'm looking for, is making sure that the department is doing a you know, an allencompassing assessment of how to mitigate any future damage. So, yeah, I guess I'll have further conversations with the Minister on this anyways. So I guess that's more of a comment. Thank you.
Thank you, Member. Are there any further comments under the Municipal and Community Affairs? Member for Monfwi.
Thank you, Madam Chair. Yes, it would have been nice to have seen the numbers since the formula is based on per capita and needs. And, you know, like I've said it before, in my region alone, you know, like we have a lot of aging infrastructure. Our water pipes need to be replaced. So we have a lot of buildings that are aging that needs attention as well. And it would be nice to see, you know, the numbers, how much money is going spend going to be spent in my region based on per capita. There's over 2,000 people in my region alone, and in Behchoko alone is 1,900. And the smallest community is less than 200. So it would be nice to see the numbers so that so we can share this with our leaders. Thank you.
Thank you. Minister of MACA.
The same thing with YK North, we'll give you the information. We'll provide that information to you. You will have it. And it can be made public. As I told the Member previously, yes, there's aging infrastructure. Municipal governments makes decisions on their capital plan. They make decisions, and we support their decisions on how we do it. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you. Member for Monfwi.
Yes, I understand about that being part of a community government council, yes, I do I do understand about how that we can you know, how to how to spend the money, where to spend the money. But I'm just saying that right now that in my region we have major infrastructure issues. And it's even to change the waterline that's aging especially in Edzo that's connected to the school, you know, that's going to cost, like, over $10 million. And I don't know like, that's why I'm saying it would be nice to see the numbers, like, how much money will be allocated to my region. And it says here regional operations $29 million. So and it's going to 33 communities. That's why I it would be nice to see would have been nice to see the actual number. But it's good that he's going to provide it to us, so thank you.
Thank you, Member. Minister of MACA.
And I apologize if the since this Member isn't going to be there, we'll make sure this is, again, for future, this will be provided in every capital plan so people are aware and so they have opportunities to look at it before us being in front of the committee. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you. Are there any further comments under Municipal and Community Affairs?
Seeing none, Municipal and Community Affairs, regional operations, infrastructure investments, $29,160,000. Does committee agree?
Agreed.
Thank you, Members. Please return now to the department summary found on page 68, Municipal and Community Affairs, 20222023 Capital Estimates, $29,160,000. Member for Frame Lake.
Thanks, Madam Chair. I move that this committee defer further consideration of the estimates for the Department of Municipal and Community Affairs at this time. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you. The motion is on the floor and being distributed. The motion is in order. To the motion.
Question.
