Thank you. Member for Hay River South.
Thank you, Madam Chair. And also looking at the RCMP units, I see they do have a crawl space there and those buildings are in the area where flooding did occur. I'm just wondering what consideration was given, I guess, to mitigate any future damage by flooding in those buildings and if, you know, and if we've got insurance on them, I guess, or if there's insurance on them, does it cover flooding? Thank you.
Thank you. Minister of NWT Housing Corporation.
Thank you, Madam Chair. I'll have vicepresident Jim Martin respond. I don't have those technical about crawl spaces and basements, and I don't have that in my material. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you. Vicepresident Martin.
Thank you, Madam Chair. Housing NWT does continue to monitor that situation. We do recognize that there is risk certainly associated with foundation integrity, and we are working with our engineers to fully assess that situation and make sure there's mitigation measures in place. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you. Member for Hay River South. Member for Tu NedheWiilideh.
Thank you, Madam Chair. I guess the question that I have first is in terms of how funding works for public housing, can you explain how funding works for public housing, where money comes in from CMHC for minor and major capital projects, operation and maintenance, and that kind of thing on an annual basis for a typical public housing unit. Thank you.
Thank you. Minister of NWT Housing Corporation.
Thank you, Madam Chair. For that level of detail, I'll defer the question over to president Young. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you. President Young.
Thank you, Madam Chair. Overall in terms of our revenue, approximately 30 percent comes from the federal government, a combination this year of CMHC and CIRNAC funding, and most of that funding from CIRNAC is intended for capital but, as mentioned, there is flexibility to use it for some O and M expenses. For CMHC, the money, again, is for both because the arrangement we have with CMHC, the bilateral arrangement we have, over time they have been reducing our O and M funding to the territory but we have got a bilateral arrangement in place to continue funding flowing to us for the delivery of housing programs. On top of that and sorry, I might have my number mixed up just slightly, but I do remember approximately 10 percent of the funding is own source revenue through rental collections and the balance of the funding comes from GNWT through both capital and O and M. So that's where our funding sources are to fill both our O and M and capital plan. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you. Member for Tu NedheWiilideh.
Thank you. Thank you, Madam Chair. Okay, so that helps me to understand how the funding works a bit. In here, in the Northwest Territories, you had I think you had mentioned during committee that there's about 2,400 public housing units in total. Of that amount, here in Yellowknife how much of that public housing units we have that are either do you consider rent supplement program as public housing where you lease, say, from Lanky Court and that kind of thing, is that considered public housing? Or is it something different altogether. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Member. Minister of NWT Housing Corporation.
Thank you, Madam Chair. The rent supplementary program is just a program to support private rentals, and it's separate from public housing. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you. Member for Tu NedheWiilideh.
Thank you, Madam Chair. I guess when the $60 million federal housing allocation was determined and there was a picture in the CBC here page and they talked about the allocation for the next two years of coming from the $10.1 billion, the housing, of that $60 million, it says right here that it's a drop in the bucket that was mentioned by the Premier but at the same time it's supposed to address the housing crisis here in the Northwest Territories. So what I don't understand is that when I go through your list here, right now on public housing on page 73, it's highlighted that all these public housing units are funded by CIRNAC and it's an arrangement that you guys can tell me, but what I don't understand is that here in the Northwest Territories right now, that if I were to take a look in my riding, say, there's 340 houses that needs to be retrofitted times 200 200,000 just to retrofit that unit, but then you got 33 communities in the Northwest Territories that probably fall into that same category so we're looking at about $2.2 billion just to fix up housing in the Northwest Territories. So I we've been here for 50 years already. So what I don't see is how come you guys don't have a plan to address these outstanding issues on the housing crisis in the Northwest Territories? So can you tell me maybe a bit about this so that I understand as to how you guys are going to deal and tackle the housing crisis here in the Northwest Territories. Thank you.
Thank you. Minister responsible for NWT Housing Corporation.
Thank you, Madam Chair. And the Member is correct, you know, we did get the $60 million over two years but that was ongoing federal engagements and conversations that was happening with the federal government, and we also do have the 100unit rollout as well and also acknowledging seniors within that rollout as well. We've also worked very closely with the federal government to enhance their coinvestment application for the Indigenous governments as well too, and for stakeholders and NGOs throughout the Northwest Territories. And separate from that, I just I don't want to kind of get off into a tangent here but then there's just you know, there's the $500 million that's coming here to the Northwest Territories that has been identified for specific Indigenous groups through the distinction based funding. With that, together we are working in conjunction in trying to provide adequate support at the community level as well. We've entered into the community housing plans where these would become lobbying documents to address the housing, those specific housing needs in the smaller communities. One thing that the portfolio has done is try to come up with very unique and innovative ideas on how to address housing in the Northwest Territories. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you. Member for Tu NedheWiilideh.
Yeah, thank you, Madam Chair. Yeah, I think there's got to be a way because, you know, the way I read this document to the Aboriginal governments in the Northwest Territories when you see $30 million going to and that's coming from Ottawa that was probably negotiated or application was made to get that money, but at the end of the day is does this makes sense to fix up public housing with CIRNAC dollars when we are in a housing crisis here in the Northwest Territories. So going forward, you know, like we're going to have to develop a better strategy as to how we're going to deal with this. Yes, we need we do need money to fix up a lot of these houses in the community. The reports already say that that's coming out. So my question, I guess, at the end of the day is that how are you going to work with Indigenous governments to find better monies or work with them so that they could start fixing up these units in the communities? Thank you.
Thank you. Minister responsible for NWT Housing Corporation.
Thank you, Madam Chair. And this delivery that we do have is just repairing our own public housing units, and we haven't seen this amount of money come into the territories in decades. And I just think of the we are working with the Council of Leaders as well too and looking at, like, our policies and looking at the community housing plans, it might seem not as significant to the Member but this there's been extensive work in creating these documents and just really looking at what is required at the smaller community level. And what I've seen throughout the Northwest Territories is those needs housing needs throughout the territory are not the same, and we have some communities that are strictly looking at either homeownership; they're looking at more public housing units; they're looking at putting more construction on the ground. And it just varies throughout the territory. But we do have a limited budget as well too that I just really wanted to highlight that. $60 million is not very much to be honest. That's what our 100unit rollout was about in the last year. And I see what $30 million looks like. And this is what we were able to acquire. But then with the success of the distinction based funding, it's really started to create a lot more conversation and a lot more positive responses at the local community level. We are there to be working with the Indigenous groups. Mahsi.
Member for Tu NedheWiilideh.
Thank you, Madam Chair. Overall I guess at the end of the day is that, you know, we're still in a housing crisis here in the Northwest Territories. It's significant. It's right across the board in all 33 communities. And I don't see a plan. But overall, I think maybe is, you know, the aboriginal governments are now looking at going directly to Ottawa to get the same pots of money but they're competing with the Housing Corporation somehow, and that needs to be looked at again because what the reason why they're doing this because they have to jump through these hurdles to qualify with their own people through the Housing Corporation but now they want to go directly to Ottawa and get that pots of money directly given to them. So I'm just thinking, you know, the Housing Corporation is 50 years old already and it still seems like they can't get it right. So maybe it's something that we need to take a look at that. You know, sooner or later that the Housing Corporation structure itself, you know, is it meeting the needs of the people here in the Northwest Territories for housing, whether it be in the homeownership or repairs. So my final question will be is that do you foresee that happening? I mean right now as it is, we can't keep going the way we are status quo because nothing's going to happen. We're going to be bureaucratic red tape, and things need to change. Thank you.
Thank you. Minister.
Thank you, Madam Chair. And, you know what, I have to disagree with the Member because looking at the funding that has been distributed out throughout the Northwest Territories, that was in partnership working with Indigenous groups and creating this working table on what is required. And my message to the federal government was if you're not going to be funding the territorial government directly, then fund Indigenous groups and we'll work with them and we'll try to see what it is that they would require at the community level. And that's where the community housing plans started to come up. And I hear the Member that it doesn't sound quite significant, but this is a very useful document that identifies every single housing need in a smaller community, and it's internally funded by Housing Corporation to see these documents completed.
And also I wanted to kind of come back and just highlight our renewal as well too that we've established that we've never had that within the portfolio as well, and also looking at our policy changes and trying to better communicate and better deliver our programming as well too and working with the public, working with Indigenous groups, stakeholders throughout the territory. Housing is not the only entity in the Northwest Territories that is going to solve this housing crisis. We need the NGOs. We need the Indigenous groups. We need to be working at those tables in collaboration. Mahsi.
Thank you, Minister. Are there any further questions, comments from Members? Member for Nunakput.
Thank you, Madam Chair. Just in regards to the units that I have going into my communities on the project listings, I just want to make sure that we are getting stickbuilt and we're not getting prefab units because we are getting it looks like they're trying to send the prefab unit in the community of Tuk. And talking with my leadership, they don't want it. They want stickbuilt units, which are going to provide work and be able to provide a little bit a little bit of employment. And it's the same thing right across within Paulatuk, Ulukhaktok, you know, all of my communities, they should be getting stickbuilt. Prefabs are not working. So what's the Minister's thoughts on that? Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Member. Minister of NWT Housing Corporation.
Thank you, Madam Chair. Through the allocation of the federal funding, the Housing NWT had to become very creative in how we were going to put this application in and putting it forward. But this was actually a modular unit delivery that was a requirement through the federal funding that we did access. But what we're looking at as well too is looking at a balance of stickbuilt and modular units. And in respect to the Member's riding as well, I did have the opportunity to come and visit that visit his communities as well, and I realized and I understand that there's a different dynamic and a different environment of buildings that need to be constructed in his riding. But I can follow up with the Member to give him a further update. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Minister. Member for Nunakput.
Make a statement, Madam Chair; we're failing. All the stuff that we're doing in all the major retrofits and stuff like that, like I asked them in regards to taking units the out, giving them to clients so we could get CMHC funding to get more units put into the community. Nothing. We tried to work with them. Nothing. All the stuff that we do with this Minister, we wear it as just like in the communities that she said she come to visit. I'm still waiting on numerous, probably three or four things that need to be done from those visits. So all this stuff that we're talking about right now, you know, it's we're just failing. Housing's failing. And we need to right that wrong. You want to work together? Yeah, let's work together. Let's get it done. Make the decision. You have the people in the room to make the decision. So let's do it. Thank you.
Thank you, Member. Are there any further questions, comments from Members? Seeing no further questions, I remind the committee that the estimates for the Northwest Territories are included in the capital estimates as information items only. The committee will not be voting on the activity total. Committee, please return to the Northwest Territories Housing Corporation summary on page 70. Member for Kam Lake.
Thank you very much, Madam Chair. Madam Chair, I move that this committee defer further consideration of the estimates for the Northwest Territories Housing Corporation at this time. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you. The motion is being distributed onto the floor now. All those in favour? All those opposed? All those abstaining? The motion is carried. Thank you, committee.
Carried
Is committee prepared to move to the next department? Yes, okay. Thank you, committee, and thank you to the Minister. Sergeantatarms, please escort the witnesses from the Chamber.
We agreed to consider Tabled Document 72319(2), Capital Estimates 20232024. Committee, we will now consider the Department of Environment and Natural Resources. Does the Minister of Environment and Natural Resources wish to bring witnesses into the Chamber?
Yes, I do, Madam Chair.
Thank you. Sergeantatarms, please escort the witnesses into the Chamber. Minister, please introduce your witnesses.
Thank you, Madam Chair. On my right is deputy minister Erin Kelly, and on my left is Jessica St. Arnaud, director of finance. Thank you.
Thank you, welcome. The committee has agreed to forego general comments. Does the committee agree to proceed to the detail contained in the tabled document?
Agreed.
Committee, the Department of Environment and Natural Resources begins at page 23. We'll defer the departmental totals and review the estimates by activity summary beginning at page 25 with environment protection and waste management with information on page 26. Are there any Environment and Natural Resources, environmental protection and waste management infrastructure investments, $80,000. Question, comments?
Agreed.
Committee agrees? Okay. Committee, please turn to page 28, forest management, with information items on page 29. Environment and Natural Resources, forest management, infrastructure investments, $1,592,000. Questions, comments? Does committee agree?
Agreed.
Thank you. Committee, please turn to page 30, wildlife and fish, with information items on page 31, Environment and Natural Resources, wildlife and fish, infrastructure investments $400,000. Does committee agree?
Agreed.
Thank you, Members. Please return now to the departmental summary on page 23, Environment and Natural Resources, 20232024 Capital Estimates. Oh, Member for Kam Lake.
