Thank you, Madam Speaker. I too don't like the Carbon Tax Act, and I know it's being kind of shoved down the throats of all Northerners. The most vulnerable population are the ones that are going to be affected by this mostly, and everybody in the Northwest Territories. And I'm willing to go with the second reading but I have a lot of a lot of situations within my own constituency that are pending, and one of the ones is the you know, the Public Utilities Board is doing a review of electricity in the community of Thebacha. And we have the NTPC expansion project near our constituency and yet they want to increase our rates by 20 percent over two years. And those are unreasonable wants by the NTPC board and the NTPC establishment. And, you know, but I also am in favour of greener energy and there's no more greener energy than hydro. And that expansion is going to be good for the whole Northwest Territories, including Yellowknife.
I don't understand how some of my colleagues could talk about environment and all these other things and not understand that the best energy possible, for greener energy, is hydro; not all these other things that come about with the mini whatever. Those end up costing more. You either do it on a big scale and look after everyone or you don't do it at all. And that's the way I feel. And we have to be also considerate with the, you know, talk about larger remitters. A lot of those larger remitters are employing a lot of people in this territory. And, you know, we have to be open for business. We're never going to balance any budgets here or anything else if we are not open for business. The business community is suffering in the Northwest Territories. And, you know, we always it's easy to criticize larger business, medium businesses, and smaller businesses. And, you know, we have to see look over have a look overall at what we're deciding when we're considering this Carbon Tax Act. And I know that it's not good for no one. And how we can get that message across to our federal partners is something we're going to have to look at. And, you know, the Minister mentioned something about having a look at some of the conditions and relaying those messages, and I think those messages have got to be relayed, because it's a major problem for each and everybody in this room, outside our all of our people that we represent and especially the vulnerable population. Thank you, Madam Speaker.
Thank you. To the principle of the bill. Member for Monfwi.
Thank you, Madam Speaker. I too will not support this carbon tax, you know, especially now, especially now with my constituent many of my constituents are struggling as it is, with high cost of living and with fuel price increase in many of the small communities. So there is a lot of struggling happening right now. I know that. I am aware of that because I come from a community from small communities from a small community in the region. So this is an additional burden for my people so I will not support this carbon tax at the moment. Thank you.
Thank you. To the principle of the bill.
Question.
DEPUTY SPEAKER:
The motion is carried. Bill 60 has had second reading and is referred to standing committee for further consideration.
Carried
Second reading of bills. Consideration in Committee of the Whole of bills and other matters. Bill 23, Bill 29, Committee Report 3619(2), Minister's Statement 26419(2), Tabled Document 68119(2), Tabled Document 69419(2), Tabled Document 72319(2), Tabled Document 74719(2), and Tabled Document 74819(2).
And Members, by the authority given to me by Motion 119(2), I hereby authorize the House to sit beyond the daily hours of adjournment to consider the business before the House. Member for Deh Cho in the chair.
I now call Committee of the Whole to order. What is the wish of committee? Member for Frame Lake.
Merci, Mr. Chair. Committee wishes to deal with Committee Report 3619(2), Tabled Document 74719(2), Tabled Document 74819(2). Mahsi, Mr. Chair.
Mahsi, committee. We will take a short recess and resume with the first item. Mahsi.
Committee, we have agreed to consider Committee Report 3619(2): Standing Committee on Government Operations Report on the Review of the 20202021 Public Accounts. I will go to the chair of the Standing Committee on Government Operations for any opening comments. Mr. Johnson.
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
The Committee Report was read into the record Friday, October 28th, 2022. The Standing Committee on Government Operations has reviewed the report on the 20202021 Public Accounts.
On December 8th, 2021, the Minister of Finance tabled the 20202021 Public Accounts. The public accounts are financial statements that show the financial results of the Government of the Northwest Territories for a given year. Each year, the Standing Committee on Government Operations reviews the public accounts. These reviews assess the credibility of the government's financial position and provide accountability for the government's financial results. Put differently, these reviews matter because they ask whether public money was spent prudently and as intended by the Legislative Assembly.
On June 29th, 2022, the committee held the public portion of its review. The committee received briefings from officials at the Office of the Auditor General and the Office of the Comptroller General. Their input was valuable to identify and clarify key issues.
In response, committee developed eight substantive recommendations to improve financial practices and reporting. These recommendations seek to achieve three goals:
Understand and address NTHSSA's growing deficit;
Enhance disclosure on environmental liabilities, resource revenues, and tangible capital assets; and
Make fiscal reporting more timely, frequent, comparable, and digital.
The committee is pleased to submit this report to the Legislative Assembly and looks forward to its consideration. Individual Members may have comments on the report, and I would like to thank the committee and the continued work by the department to improve the public accounts and the Office of the Auditor General for all of their work on this report. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Mahsi, Mr. Johnson. I will now open the floor for general comments on the Committee Report 3619(2), Standing Committee on Government Operations Report on the Review of the 20202021 Public Accounts. Any Members? Not seeing any comments, Mr. Johnson.
Mr. Chair, I move that this committee recommends that the Department of Health and Social Services provide detailed reporting and analysis on each cost driver of the Northwest Territories Health and Social Services Authority's persistent operating deficit;
And further, the analysis should quantify how each driver contributes to NTHSSA's operating deficit,
And furthermore, the analysis should quantify, break down, and explain for each driver the difference between.
Budgeted expenses, positions, and programs; and
Actual results.
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Mahsi, Mr. Johnson. The motion is in order. To the motion. Mr. Johnson.
Yeah, thank you, Mr. Chair. In the NTHSSA well, we know their deficit is growing and in the NTHSSA's annual report they tell you some of the cost drivers but they don't necessarily quantify each one of them. We know, for example, overtime is the largest driver of the deficit but we don't know the exact figure. That's not publicly reported. And then we also don't know exactly how much is budgeted for overtime for different parts of the authority and then how much the actual costs are. So I think for each of those individual cost drivers, some better reporting is needed and perhaps some analysis at the end of the day of, you know, if you were consistently going over budget on one of those drivers, whether that warrants an actual budget increase or whether there are solutions. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Mahsi, Mr. Johnson.
Question.
Question has been called. All those in favour? All those opposed? All those abstaining? One abstention. The motion is carried.
Carried
Mr. Johnson.
Mr. Chair, I move that this committee recommends the Department of Health and Social Services disclose its response to the Office of the Auditor General's 20202021 audit observation that many areas of the internal controls need improvement at Northwest Territories Health and Social Services Authority;
And further, the department should also disclose its action items, progress on those action items, and timelines to improve internal controls. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Mahsi, Mr. Johnson. The motion is in order. To the motion.
Question.
Question has been called. All those in favour? All those opposed? All those abstaining? The motion is carried.
Carried
Mr. Johnson.
Mr. Chair, I move that this committee recommends that the Department of Finance provide a plan with timelines to enhance reporting on the Government of the Northwest Territories environmental liabilities dashboard by matching reporting practices in the Treasury Board of Canada Secretariat's federal contaminated sites inventory. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Mahsi, Mr. Johnson. The motion is in order. To the motion? Mr. O'Reilly.
Yeah, thanks, Mr. Chair. So I guess Department of Finance has launched this online I think it's an inventory, really, rather than a data base of contaminated sites, and that's a step forward. At least they've identified where these sites are and there's a little bit of background information. But there's no cost figures; there's no real tracking of progress in terms of assessing the risk at those sites and whether any remediation needs to take place. And, you know, if you go to the federal contaminated sites inventory, it's maintained by the federal, the treasury board. There's a remarkable level of detail for sites all across Canada that are the responsibility of various different agencies and you can sort is the data by region or by the authority that is responsible for the site, by time. It's an amazing database. And I'm not saying that we need to get there right away but I've been raising this issue for seven years. And at least we have some sort of an online database now but it needs to be populated with actual details of information. So that's what this recommendation is aimed towards, and it's really about greater transparency and accountability and making sure that these kind of liabilities are properly tracked and the public knows about them. So I look forward to a response from the department on how they're going to improve that database over time to get us up closer to where the federal government has been for years and other jurisdictions as well. The Yukon has their own inventory that contains significantly more information and data than ours. So we can and should be doing a lot better. Thanks, Mr. Chair.
All right. No further questions on this? The motion is in order. To the motion.
Question.
Question has been called. All those in favour? All those opposed? All those abstaining? The motion is carried.
Carried
Mr. Johnson.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. I move that this committee recommends the Department of Finance provide more detailed resource revenue data on gross amounts received and calculations of amounts retained;
And further, this enhanced reporting should separate annual aggregate values from petroleum, mineral resources, and each other type of resource revenues. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Mahsi, Mr. Johnson. The motion is in order. To the motion. Ms. Nokleby.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. I guess this one I think gets a little bit close to a big conversation we've been having around royalty disclosures and whether or not this would include private information of private businesses. I guess that would lead me to want more information on exactly what "detailed resource revenue data" means and therefore I will not support this part of the motions. Thank you.
Mahsi, Ms. Nokleby. Mr. O'Reilly.
Thanks, Mr. Chair. So if you actually read the report from the committee, it provides the rationale for this recommendation. You know, the public accounts indicate that in 20202021, the GNWT collected $66 million in resource revenues but there's no note with that line item. There's a bit of a break down between minerals gross money its gross amount of minerals, oil, and gas royalties, licenses, rentals, and other fees, and then quarry fees. So it doesn't even indicate through a note that this is actually a gross amount. This is not very transparent reporting of revenues to our government. And that's what this recommendation is actually aimed at, is making sure that people actually understand what the government revenues are from the resources that are taken away from here. And, you know, I've had an ongoing exchange with the Minister of Finance and her staff about what that line item actually includes, and as I understand it, there was federal money that we get from the royalties collected at Norman Wells that are included in this amount, half the revenues actually go back to the federal government according to the devolution agreement, then, you know, a quarter of the remaining amount goes to the Indigenous governments that signed on to the devolution agreement. This is pretty complicated stuff, Mr. Chair.
So, you know, the public, they see this figure of $66 million and think well, that's great, that's what we get from resource revenues. That's not, and it's not a net amount either. So what this is really aimed at is improving the transparency of this reporting so that the public actually sees what the gross amount is, and there's a calculation of what the net amount is. This is not about what individual companies report or how they file their royalty returns with the Minister of ITI. This is about the transparency of revenues to government. So I you know, it's done a lot better in many other jurisdictions, and that's what this is aimed at doing, is making sure that the residents of the Northwest Territories, when they pick up the public accounts they actually understand what those figures really mean. So I fully support this and look forward to a response from the Minister of Finance on how we can improve this. Thanks, Mr. Chair.
Mahsi, Mr. O'Reilly. The motion is in order. Ms. Martselos.
I'm just going to speak for I just want clarity on the motion. The revenue the resource revenue sharing with intergovernmental council that signed on to devolution, is that part of this motion? Because there's an agreement with intergovernmental council of the Indigenous groups that signed on to devolution. That's a situation that was privately done with the federal government and with territorial before devolution took place, and I don't think that is something that has to be shared with the public. It was because it was part of devolution, and the Indigenous governments had a right to that. And so I'm just wondering for clarity is that part of what is being discussed in this particular part of this committee motion?
Mahsi, Ms. Martselos. Mr. Johnson.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. I guess so I may be mistaken, but it is my understanding is that it is already public how much each Indigenous government is currently getting of royalties under the devolution agreement. I believe that is already disclosed. But I should clarify that this committee report, regardless, is not asking the public accounts to break that down by Indigenous government and is not asking us to break down the number by what individual mining companies or oil and gas companies or quarry companies pay. That is a separate debate, and it's not our intention. The intention was simply to show that 25 percent of 50 percent is what goes to Indigenous governments and that the GNWT takes that remaining amount. So just a note clarifying how the formula works. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Mahsi, Mr. Johnson. Ms. Martselos, anything further?
Thank you, Mr. Chair. I mean I know that I know for a fact that it's not reported now what each Indigenous government receives, and that's an agreement with the Indigenous governments with intergovernmental council. So I just want to make that very clear. I'll be supporting the motion. I just wanted clarity, okay. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Mahsi for that. The motion is in order. To the motion.
Question.
Question has been called. All those in favour? All those opposed? All those abstaining?
---Carried
Mr. Johnson.
Mr. Chair, I move that this committee recommends that the comptroller general add to the financial statement discussion and analysis section of the public accounts information on the tangible capital assets with zero book value and provide a timeline for implementation. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Mahsi, Mr. Johnson. The motion is in order. To the motion. Mr. Johnson.
Yeah, thank you, Mr. Chair. I just want to explain what this is actually asking. We just want a piece of information, which is presently when all GNWT's tangible capital assets are amortized over their expected life cycle, and in theory what that means is that you know when you have to replace it and then you budget accordingly. But it's quite clear that well, we all know that our infrastructure's in pretty rough shape so a lot of it has been completely amortized and is noted on our books as being "worth" zero dollars, and I would like to know what that total figure is, or committee thinks it would be a helpful figure to know. And in theory what that number means is that if it's a billion dollars, you have $1 billion worth of infrastructure that is overdue or that is passed its expected life cycle. And I imagine that if you took all of the Power Corp's infrastructure and all the GNWT's infrastructure, it's probably over a billion, but that number is not disclosed. So committee is recommending that be included. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
