Mahsi, Madam Chair. Mahsi to the Minister for that. I don't think it's really getting to the crux of what I'm getting at, is to incorporate the systems into communities. Let's save our housing corporation from destroying the old public housing picture in the Northwest Territories by 2038. Let's try to help to extend that. Let's incorporate solar panels or electric hot water for hot water heating, whatever source we can get, and also incorporate wood pellet boiler systems which, so far, makes sense. They do. I'm telling you. I've done a unit and I've said it so many times. We've done one. When I worked as a project officer, we incorporated into our school in Fort Providence. It went from a 3000 a litre burning unit fuel burning unit to less than 500 litres per month after the installation of a wood pellet boiler system. And it's running full bore all the time. When you get 40 below, 35, 40 below
Member, your time has expired.
Are there questions? Member for Monfwi.
Thank you. Thank you, Madam Chair. Since we're on training and support workshops, I'm just looking at here, the 254, is that going to be enough money to make up for the years that from 20212022 we only had three? Like, is it because it lapsed and it's, like are we going to make up for it? Are we on the right page? 379?
Is that training and support workshops? Yes. Yes, okay. Minister Chinna.
Sorry, can the Member repeat her question. Sorry.
Member for Monfwi.
Sorry about that. 254 allocated for this fiscal year, I'm just asking if it's going to be enough to make up for the year 20212022, there was only three and it's lapsed. Like, aren't we, like I'm just trying to ask if it's enough to make up for the years that we lost due to COVID?
Thank you. Minister Chinna.
Thank you, Madam Chair. And during that time, we did hold a lot of oh, what is it that not the facetoface, what is it virtual. Virtual meetings as well too in connecting with the local housing authorities and with staff. But looking at the 254, I'll have President Young elaborate on that number as well because it does seem quite low. We are trying to put forward our strategic renewal as well. And I know there's a number of training upgrades that we need to provide to our staff. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you. President Young.
Thank you, Madam Chair. And like everyone else, we're trying to balance our numbers. And so one of our intentions here is we do access other funding sources as well for training and workshops. So we will use this money and leverage other funding sources as well to be able to stretch it as far as we can. But we also recognize that our LHO staff in particular, the ones that are key to doing training, also have day jobs. So we need to be able to work with them to schedule training and allow them the time to do the other work that they've got to do. So, you know, we do try to work with them as best as possible to line this up, deliver it so that it can be done as cost effectively as possible and be able to deliver the training they need. So I think at this point, we think that it's enough money and we will apply for additional funds if necessary. But I think we will also, as part of the renewal, be tracking things like this to see if we need to change those investments, you know. If as we start this model of working more closely with Indigenous governments and LHOs, if we need to shift some of that thinking, then we can do so.
As you've heard, our associate that talks about renewal, the renewal is just the start of an ongoing improvement plan and we'll be monitoring these things on an annual basis. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you. Member for Monfwi.
Yes, thank you. I'm glad that they mention that. But, you know, especially in my region, Tlicho region, we are in housing crisis. We have lots of housing that are sitting vacant, like, for many years. And it's not just that. There are some other houses in the community that are occupied by tenants and they keep complaining that there's all kind of issues with the unit. And they keep calling the LHO office, but they don't have the capacity, so. And some of them they don't have the training do the job.
And I know that we need to we need to help our locals to get the training that they need, you know, so that they can do the job. And there's a lot of them. And they're getting younger, some of these staff. So I think what we should do is that yes, if 254 isn't enough then we need do more to help build up our local youth that are working for the departments. But not only that, the administrations need a lot of work because like I was saying before in my Member's statement, some of the arrears that occurred, it is from they are basing the rent on last year's income. And nobody comes and work with the tenants. Only once a year or once their notice of assessment comes in, then many of these tenants are given a huge bill. And some of them are not working. Last year maybe they worked; this year they're not working. And so that's how a lot of rent accumulated. And even Tlicho region alone, we have like $1.4 million arrears. And that's probably based on the administration because nobody is contacting these tenants.
And it's not from not paying rent alone but it's just that once you know, like, once they gather all the information and in July/August, some of the people they start calling and saying I just got $14,000 bill, you know, housing bill. And they're still paying max. So these are subsidized housing; these are social housing. And it's I don't think, you know, it's I don't see it as a social housing if you're getting the tenants to pay max. If it is subsidized, then what they should do is that they should be working with the local based on the current income. Last year income, yes, there was yes, it was a good year for employment but this year it's not so all those things have to be taken into consideration when they're doing this.
So I know that that's where a lot of arrears have occurred. So in administration, at the administration level, there needs to be more training provided for the LHO office and also for the trades, for the young people that are working there. We need to build them up. We need more than just like here, you know one position is sunset. Like, and I know in my region in Behchoko we don't have that many staff working there to accommodate to work on over 200 public units. And we only have few staff, you know.
So I know they need to do a better job. Not only that too, and so I heard the president said about handbook, tenant's handbook. That's good. It's good they have that, you know. But 2018 status report for the GNWT for my region, we have the low literacy rate. We have the low graduation rate. If that is low, how do you expect these people to read? Is it going to be written in Tlicho language too as well or the administration team, are they going to be going around to the Tlicho community or to the people and tell them and explain to them what the handbook is about? How are they going to accommodate? How are they going to implement this? Like, what are they going to do? Like, just give it out and then just it's going to be forgotten. So how are they going to I just want to know how they're going to carry out, you know, like delivering the handbook.
Thank you. Minister Chinna.
Thank you, Madam Chair. And thank you to the Member for her question. I was just consulting with President Young because we do have the renewal that is coming out as well too I mean that has been established. And I do have Jamie Fulford that is here as well so I'm just wondering to switch out the witnesses so he could speak on behalf of the strategic renewal as well with the training and the aspects with it. Is that all right?
Does committee agree?
Agreed.
Okay. Sergeantatarms, please switch the witnesses.
Thank you. Go ahead, Minister Chinna.
Thank you, Madam Chair. And I just wanted to speak about the community liaison officer as well too that we've been working with the Tlicho government. So that is going to be funded still for the Tlicho government through our community initiatives project. So that position is still there. It didn't eliminate it. It didn't go cancel or anything.
The thing I also wanted to speak about the trades concerns that you do have. I have seen it throughout the Northwest Territories. I have been to one of my communities where 75 units and one apprenticeship I mean, one maintenance person. And, you know, then it results in a lot of declining administration for these units as well and it does end up costing us quite a bit in the future. But recruiting maintenance people has honestly been a challenge throughout the Northwest Territories.
And also the training for administration, I hear you on that. And through the renewal, these have been identified and there's been a lot of consultation that has been happening, and I did, you know, keep my feet to the ground I guess in making sure that people knew about this renewal that was coming up; we did get the comments that were required out there as well. Language has been identified as well. And in respect I hear where the Member's coming from and understanding that, you know, the Tlicho language is very strong in her riding. I'm looking at further translation documents as well too and also providing further training to our local housing authority and our staff as well too to look at more clientbased training. And I look forward to these changes as this renewal is more with more emphasis on it. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you. And the time has expired for the Member for Monfwi. But if Mr. Fulford has anything to add to the question that was asked, then if you want to just answer that now and then we'll move on to Member for Thebacha. Thank you.
Thank you, Madam Chair. I can elaborate a little bit more on the tenant orientation handbook that the president referred to. And I think it's important to note that this came out of the review we had with the Council of Leaders housing working group, and it was noted that, you know, not all of our tenants are going to have English as a first language. So we specifically noted that there would likely be a need for Indigenous language support there. So that's one of the pieces. And to develop it in plain language so that those who do understand English, at least it'll be in a plain language format. It was recognized that some of our materials in the past haven't always been at a standard that communicates well what we're trying to communicate with our tenants in that easily understandable manner. So that's been a thread throughout the whole renewal process.
And if I may just add one more of the proposed changes that's come out of the renewal process, and that's a tenant support program that we're hoping to begin piloting, and it's based on a program called Rent Smart that started off in BC. Nunavut has done a pilot. And it's about trying to provide tenants with the tools to maintain their tenancies. And that's actually delivered in person. So it's not here's a book and read it. It's to try and get people to develop those skills to maintain their tenancy because that's one of the things that we want to do, we want to see success in our tenants. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you. I'll move on to Member for Thebacha.
Thank you, Madam Chair. First of all, we have 2900 rental housing units in 33 communities. Could you tell me how many units are located in Yellowknife and then I could sort of figure out the 33 communities, please. Thank you.
Thank you. Minister Chinna.
Thank you, Madam Chair. I'm pretty sure I may have the number in my binder but it's in my desk. Just a second.
Did you have a next question, and then we'll get back to that one, Member for Thebacha.
I just want to make sure that I don't lose time waiting for them to find the answer.
I also would like to know about the homeownership program. How many homeownership programs have gone to individuals in the entire NWT is my second question, Madam Chair.
Thank you. Minister Chinna.
Thank you, Madam Chair. I don't have the percentage in front of me but the last number that I was given was 56. 56 percent in the territory were entered into the homeownership programming. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you. Member for Thebacha.
Madam Chair, is 56 percent of the 2900 units?
Thank you, Member. Minister Chinna.
Thank you, Madam Chair. Correction. 56 applications. Sorry, thank you.
Thank you. Member for Thebacha.
Of the 2900 units, there's only 56 applicants, and most of them will be subject to a means test and all these other things and so that's not a very good rate of success. But, you know, I looked at that whole renewal initiative. It sounds great. But there's one important part that is missing from that renewal program, and that's the Seniors Aging with Dignity program. You know, we talk about this in the House. We talk about our seniors all the time. And that hasn't been addressed in the renewal initiative. And I'm going to be doing a statement on that tomorrow. But I just want to make sure that, you know, we have to do what we preach, and I don't see that happening here.
I also want to there was a comment made by the Minister just a couple minutes ago that the RCMP revenue for the new homes that we're getting is one million a year, around one million; is that correct?
Thank you, Member. Minister Chinna.
Thank you, Madam Chair. That is correct approximately a little over one million, and the agreement is for 50 years. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you. Member for Thebacha.
Ok that's a really bad deal. We are we're you know, that is not a business Madam Chair, that's not a business transaction because it sounds like if it's 50 years and one million, that's $50 million, and most of those houses are costing from 1.3 in the South Slave to whatever in the further up. So, really, it's not a really good solid business revenue decision. Who made that decision? Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you. Minister Chinna.
Thank you, Madam Chair. The funding was provided by Department of Justice and by the federal government for us to build, and we are to operate and maintain and we will be accumulating the $50 million over the 50 years approximately. We did not build those units on our own. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you. Member for Thebacha.
Well, that's not my understanding, Madam Chair. I think that the housing corp has a kind of a lease back pay payment to the Government of the Northwest Territories for building these homes. And the cost of building each unit, whether it be a duplex or whatever, is much more than that. For $1 million revenue a year for the amount that has gone out, that is not a good business deal, Madam Chair. True or false?
Thank you, Member. Minister Chinna.
Thank you, Madam Chair. At that time, the opportunity was for us to build on behalf of the federal government. And at that time, I never made the decision but, you know, I can see how housing has to be very strategic in trying to generate revenue with our limited budget that we do see and as we go forward. I cannot predict what this is going to look like but for the time being right now, we are going to be in a lease arrangement, and we will be generating that amount of funding from the RCMP units. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Minister. Member for Thebacha.
Madam Chair, when you do a business deal like this, you always look for profit. And we are no different, okay. The Government of the Northwest Territories settles for something that is less business oriented and goes with what the federal government and those specs for those houses were over the top. It's almost like building a you know, something that's going to happen within a war zone or something. That's how bad the specs were. There was no collaboration with the Government of the Northwest Territories on the specs, and the prices went up. I'm not blaming anybody that had to build them, but the revenues are not there. To me, it's a bad business deal. True or false? Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Member. I'll pass it on to the Minister but just so Members are all aware, we are on community housing. This is for LHOs within the department. So Minister.
Thank you, Madam Chair. And I appreciate the Member and the background in business that she does have as well too. But with this agreement that we do have, we are going to be we do have the open relationship with the federal government to reviewing this lease every five years as well too. And looking at the way that the units were built and designed, that was provided by the federal government. And I'll just leave it at that. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you. Member for Thebacha.
