While we're on this subject, you know, I would Madam Chair, I would really appreciate if the housing corp would adopt a policy where they're more clientbased rather than administrativebased. You know, we're serving people that most of the people are either underprivileged, or have many problems with addictions, many things that happened with residential school, and we seem to be more administrativebased. And, you know, this should be a clientbased department. I just want to ask if that's true or false. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you. Minister Chinna.
Thank you, Madam Chair. And I just want to go back just a few questions ago. 345 units is what we have here in Yellowknife, public housing units.
And looking at becoming more clientbased, that is a part of our renewal and for us to be more clientfocused and working more strategically, I want to say, throughout the Northwest Territories. I'll have Mr. Jamie Fulford elaborate on the response as well. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you. Mr. Fulford. Thank you, Madam Chair. I'd just take a few steps further and say that moving in the direction of being more clientfocused because as a process is a lynch pin of the renewal process. You'll see in the new mandate that committee saw earlier, and that was subsequently adopted early in 2022, that a value around client centeredness was identified. So one of six values that was identified that we thought had to be the focus of Housing NWT.
I've heard maybe questions earlier about what that means in terms of training LHOs because it takes some training; it takes some resources in some cases to get around to that point, and we're alive to that. We're reviewing the service agreement with LHOs with a view to getting more of their input this time around. In the past, it's been more of a template agreement. So we know that there are some of the changes that we're doing. They may require some additional resources and, as the president said, we would have to then seek the Minister's authority to come forward for additional funding for those. But we're content that we're moving in this direction. We've had not only this House tell us that. We've had the Ombud tell us that. We've had reports tell us that. And that all went into the renewal strategy and that's why we're moving in this direction. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you. Committee, we'll move on to Member for Great Slave.
Thank you, Madam Chair. I just wanted to come back to the sort of training manual and move towards that empowering, I guess, clients to do repairs. And even as a homeowner myself, I could definitely use some help in, you know, how to keep maintaining my home better.
So my question, is there any move with this renewal or this client focus to bring back the idea of superintendents or people that are living within the public housing units that are then responsible more for, like, maintaining? So what would be a super back in the day they would call it, so somebody that lives in the building that then is responsible for maintenance and upkeep and sort of being that contact point between the department. And not necessarily being an employee but maybe getting a bit of a discount and that kind of a program. And I think it fits in well with this idea of sort of offering training to clients to do home repairs themselves. If you had sort of one person on site who has that kind of skill set and then is getting a little bit of a break, it creates almost a community and a network around repairs.
And then that comes back to the comment I made to the vicepresident when he toured with me at Norseman was the sense of ownership. And I think that's what's missing in a lot of the buildings is that people don't take pride in where they're living because it's not their place. So I think that kind of a system may give that ownership back to the residents that then would, you know, perhaps cause a better uptake or upkeep of the building. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Member. Minister Chinna.
Thank you, Madam Chair. And it's just it's quite interesting because I've had this conversation throughout the territory as well too, and we're looking at unique positions. And I just wanted to just identify the one in Behchoko where we're identifying a community liaison position. But the aspects of that position is to basically include what the Member has spoken about as well. We need to improve that communication. We need to improve that pride between the tenants and their units as well too and also providing them the training. So through the renewal, I'm looking at changes going forward on how we could better communicate that and become more creative with positions that would try to work to eliminating those barriers. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you. Member for Great Slave.
Thank you. And, yeah, I'm curious to see what the there's a lot of like, it's in the government renewal and then, you know, we have to sort of wait. And I mean I get that we're not going to see that in likely the term of this Assembly. So I'm hopeful that it's actually going to be tangible ontheground things instead of a great idea that just really doesn't go anywhere. So then I guess that kind of leads in again to sort of my next area of question is around the apprenticeships.
Again, I know that there's sort of a more formalized apprenticeship type program that comes along with the people doing the repairs in the department; however, maybe is there something in between where it's not like a formalized apprenticeship program but it is an area where maybe young people can come and use housing projects to get, you know, a feel for whether or not they're interested in carpentry or boiler mechanics, which I really struggle that any child is going to want to get into boiler mechanics. But, you know, I think there's an opportunity here when people or youth are identified in the community to have almost like a tag along type of program. And not just one day of the year but actually can go and work alongside or observe people doing repairs and getting themselves more interested in that field, and then maybe that will solve some of our future problems around having these types of workers available. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you. Minister Chinna.
Thank you, Madam Chair. I'm quite excited for these set of questions because, you know, it just really changes the way that I want to see housing provide their programming and moving us more into a social program as well too. And I just want to go back to the community initiative funding program that was created in the last government by the Premier, that this has become very creative and a number of communities have actually wanted a position similar to what the Member has been describing. So I just wanted to comment on that.
And the other is the trades as well too. We've worked in some of the communities where we've had summer students and casual employees come up and see them through the apprenticeship programming. And we do fund, at the headquarters level, 12 positions, but then also the LHOs do receive funding within their budget as well. But it's really challenging to find the commitment. The commitment and to keep the positions.
The other thing I just want to quickly comment on I'm just going to cautious of the time as well is that we build these into our contracts as well too, to making sure that we do get the community members experienced on site and as these builds are being rolled out that they do gain employment. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Minister. Member for Great Slave.
Thank you, Madam Chair. I think that one of the things that I'm realizing, and I'm hearing from my colleagues, is there is a bit of a disconnect between LHOs and what they're telling people out there and sort of, I think, the direction and the want of the department. Like, it's my understanding these opportunities just really aren't available in all of the communities. And one of my colleagues just mentioned that to me. Also I have had instances where I have communications with the department about a client or a constituent's file, and then what they're being told from the LHO side is much different. And I think it comes back to what a lot of what my colleagues were talking about, and that's having the, you know, culturally appropriate and trained Indigenous workers actually working in the department versus a very what comes across was a very patriarchal colonial type method for dealing with people. And I think there's an element of compassion missing because when people are at a point where they're reaching out and trying to get help, and particularly to the LHO when it's your housing, your secure place to put your head at night and get a good night's sleep, there is a lot of what feels like abuse or disrespect or even racism in the responses that are coming back to people from the LHOs. So I don't know that I have a huge amount of a question in there other than I just really wanted to make sure that, you know, the Minister and the department are aware that while you may be telling us all this, I'm not sure it's translating to the LHOs and the LHAs. Thank you.
Thank you, Member. Minister Chinna.
Thank you, Madam Chair. I'm going to try to be very quick. But I appreciate the question coming forward as well because I've heard this a number of times throughout the Northwest Territories on our client service, and it's one of the areas I'm looking for significant improvement. And I've brought this back to the department that we need to improve our own communication between headquarters, a district office and the LHOs, and really understanding the priorities of that service agreement. So with the strategic renewal, I know the Members may get tired of hearing of it but it's the guiding document for us to continue those changes going forward and to show that we are committed to improving housing and the way that we deliver housing throughout the Northwest Territories.
And very quickly if I could get President Young just to elaborate on the trades positions. There is something exciting happening here in Yellowknife I just wanted her to elaborate very quickly on. Thank you.
Thank you, Minister. President Young.
Thank you, Madam Chair. And just to expand a little bit, we are here in Yellowknife, we have a trades program through the high school with the Yellowknife Housing Authority. But something the Minister mentioned, and I think it is one of the tools that we have that we are trying to use to change the direction that we're talking about, the community housing support initiative, we are finding ways to work with Indigenous governments, LHOs, to try to find a different way to get things done. You know, whether it's fixing furnaces in communities, whether it's doing repairs for homeowners, whether it's doing pretrades for lack of a better word, work with students, you know, to build shacks for people. Like, we're trying to be creative and do what the local government, what the Indigenous government would like us to try to do, and trying to be flexible with that program so that we can do innovative things with the communities. So we're trying to move a step in that direction. It does take time. But as the Minister said, you know, baby steps, but the other thing is then sharing that information with other LHOs so that they get the ideas and can share them around and maybe what has been done in Fort Good Hope is a great model for, you know, another community to use. So that's really important too, and that's part of our reasons for managers meetings, board meetings, to be able to share some of those innovative ideas that we do. Thanks, Madam Chair.
Thank you. Member for Nunakput.
Thank you, Madam Chair. You know, just in regards to LHOs and the training, I guess sometimes I think our staff forget who they're working for. We work for the people of the Northwest Territories and all, everybody. There should be no favoritism, should just come and serve them and good enough. And I think that should go a long way in regards to that, in regards to staff training again. It has to be looked into. My office is getting too many complaints in regards to that.
And another one is in regards to the I guess the increase in heating fuel across. And would that come into effect in regards to raising our rental scale being increased for the people across the Northwest Territories? Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you. Minister Chinna.
Thank you, Madam Chair. And thank you to the Member for that. And like I had said, staff training is a priority as well too, and we need to do a better job of getting out there and really connecting with the local housing authorities, district offices, and to be supporting them in a better capacity.
I just wanted to talk about the heating fuel, that we do have an increase in our budget here to address heating fuel. There hasn't been any conversation about increasing rent due to inflation. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Minister. Member for Nunakput.
Madam Chair, in regards to the, I guess, inflation in regards to the rental scale, if this carbon tax goes through, there will be an increase. I'll guarantee it. And we're going to be wearing it if that comes up in regards to accepting that Bill C60. And I think that before it goes to I guess brought up into the floor of the House in regards to that, I mean, we have to look at all aspects of what the increase is going to be to our constituents and the cost inflation on everything right across the board. I think the Minister I think you should really talk to our staff in regards to that because I'll guarantee you next year this time they're going to be coming back with increases over the year. So that being said, the programs that that's a comment.
But the programs that we are giving with the housing, the homeownership programs, I had a constituent for two and a half almost two a half years trying to get stuff sorted out. I've been going back and forth with the Minister's office and I'm hopefully it's finally done. I never heard from my client so I'm assuming it's done. And I just wish it would be a lot better service in regards to providing service and getting things done, you know. We only had 56 applicants out of 2900 homes. You know, it shouldn't take two years, two and a half years almost, of our time. You know, getting calls. I wear it just like the Minister. I had to wear it. I stuck up for the department. I'm working, I'm working with it, but it takes that long and I'm hoping it's dealt with now. I haven't had no call back.
And that being said, another one is you know when our community leaders come into the community or come into Yellowknife for meetings with our Minister, if any of our Ministers, and they're saying they're going to follow up with them, follow up with them because I wear it too. Again, trying to I take the shots just like with the government in regards to when they don't follow through with their meetings or what they promise in regards to any kind of the programs that they're doing, we have to we push and push and push until, you know, you can't you don't even want to talk about it. But you're still getting heck on the other side of the phone saying what's going on here; why aren't they doing this? So any of my Ministers across there, you're saying something to one of you know, any of our mayors or community corp chairs or whatever, please, please do your job. Get your staff you have enough staff to help you to get your job done. But that's, like you know, I can go on and on. I'm not satisfied with this department. I mean, I'm telling you, Madam Chair. We're hurting. Communities need houses. All I've been hearing out of this whole two years, two and a half years since COVID, how one was COVID. Two, now we try to build houses. The announcement keeps coming over and over and over. Where's the houses? Announcement's there through the federal government. Nothing. Show me the houses. Like, you drive down if you're down south, you see all these houses on the side of the road. Get them, buy them all, bring them up. It's a you know, you want houses. That's the way you're going do it. CMHC too. CMHC's all lip service. We had them up in Tuk a few years ago, those guys. They come in. They listen. They say same thing. They'll promise you the world until they jump on that plane and leave the community. Nothing. No follow through. And that's got to stop here. Tired of lip service. We need houses. Communities need houses. We need service. Serve us, please. Thank you.
Thank you, Member. I didn't hear any question in there. Did you have any questions left for the Minister?
Thank you, Madam Chair. I'm really I'm passionate about my people. They're suffering in regards to small communities. We got people that are homeless. That's another question. How many houses do we have under the homeless shelter shelters in the community for homeless people right now in my riding? Do we have houses allocated furnished and ready to go? Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you. Minister of Housing.
Thank you, Madam Chair. And thank you to the Member for his comments as well too. And I hear where he's coming from, and I just you know, I want to comment on CMHC is that, you know, with those federal programs going out, we've seen a lot of success throughout the Northwest Territories because we're working with Indigenous governments. And right now we haven't the department has met with IRC but there hasn't been any federal submission submitted, and there's been no partnership in that aspect as to putting those coinvestment or those reAP applications going forward.
We do have a housing delivery in Nunakput. I just don't have those housing deliveries in front of me right now. And then also looking at the that our response in working with the tenant and the client in his riding, that is pretty much finalized, and my apologies that it had taken almost three years to close up that file. There was a lot of back and forth that had happened. But then that's pretty much going to be finalized in the next few weeks here.
And also looking at their rent increase, that hasn't been a discussion that we've been having here for inflation. Our units and our houses are low income and social programming. We haven't even thought about that to be honest, to be raising the rent and looking at rent calculations differently.
And then also for the homelessness initiatives as well too in Nunakput, we've had conversations with local governments, but we haven't had any follow through that, you know, are there NGOs, who are we going to be working with, who do we fund. It just hasn't been the engagement there hasn't been as strong as it has been throughout the rest of the territory. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you. Member for Nunakput.
Madam Chair, no. Just in regards to that, the Minister brought up our regional governments and working together. The biggest problem that we do have is who do we how do we hold them accountable? They get the money. Nothing being built. IRC is sitting on funds to build units. How do we hold them accountable? I could hold my Minister accountable but how do we hold and work with the IRC, I guess, to hold them accountable to build the units that they're required to build with the money they got sitting in a bank account. And I don't want to bring it up here but, you know, we're frustrated. The community leaders, I'm frustrated. We're trying to get units into the community. All I see is lip service from the federal government announcing things over and over again but nothing. You know, it's got to stop. Just give us some houses, please and thank you. Not hard. Spend the money. You're sitting on it. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Member. Did you have any questions left over for this Minister?
No, I don't. Thanks.
Thank you, Member for Nunakput. Did you have anything final to say under this section to the Members, to Member's comments?
Thank you, Madam Chair. I can follow up with the Member as well too on what we've been doing in Nunakput as well. I'll follow up with him separately. And then also with the distinction based funding that the Indigenous groups have had, we are in the same boat as well too in trying to understand what are they delivering and looking at our community housing plans, how can we better work with the Indigenous groups and trying to support them in their housing delivery. But it's just the department knocking on their door and whether they invite us to the table or not is really up to them. And we've had some progress throughout the territory, but it's just that building relationship. But I will follow up with the Member with the numbers for his riding. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Minister. We will now begin executive on page 380, with information items on page 381 of the budget. Questions. Member for Tu NedheWiilideh.
Thank you, Madam Chair. I do have questions, but I think we're going to come back to 274. I just want to ask one quick question in regards to the program details on page 380 on the executive.
Given that, you know, we in working with the housing corporation and the people in the communities, the Indigenous governments, you know, we have to start building a new relationship and trust again with the housing corporation. I just want to say that by starting to do that, maybe then we may be I would like to recommend that they should seriously take a look at having that Indigenous advisor next to the president of the housing corporation. That way here that the chiefs in the communities or the Metis leaders or people in the communities want to go to talk to somebody, they could have somebody at the housing corporation that they could relate to. Maybe our former leader, maybe something like that. But right now, like I said before, you know, we don't have very much Aboriginal people in that office. I know that we've gone to committee and there may be one or two people there, but we need somebody there to advocate to work with the president but at the same time trying to convey what the people are saying in the communities so that the people have a voice to go to somebody because they're busy as it is, so I just wanted to that's the only question I had, Madam Chair. And then I have further questions on 374 later. Thank you.
Thank you, Member. Minister Chinna.
Thank you, Madam Chair. And to the Member's question as well too, we do have the Council of Leaders housing working group that has all leaders throughout the Northwest Territories that have contributed to the changes throughout the territory. We also have a working relationship established with YKDFN. They're actually going to be hosting our housing forum this year. And they're putting forward and working with us quite significantly with their housing aspirations, I want to say, because they do have a plan that is put in place. And also the district offices, the majority of our district directors are Indigenous. Our LHOs, the majority of our people at the ground level that have the service contract are Indigenous as well too. And majority are community representation. I also wanted to include that 80 percent of our employees are in the smaller communities. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you. Member for Tu NedheWiilideh.
I'll have a followup question to that then. I guess what I'm trying to say is I think the Minister misunderstood what I'm trying to say is that I'd like to get a commitment from this Minister here to really trying to get somebody in the headquarters of the housing corporation and sitting next to the Minister or sorry, to the deputy minister. That's what I'm saying is on top of what you just said, yes, we understand what you're saying, you're working with the Circle of Aboriginal leaders, etcetera, but you need to have a body in an office over there that people could talk to, who could relate to, and vice versa. If the president needs something to happen in the communities, then you have that person to go to. Right now I could walk into that office. I'll be lucky to see maybe one, two Aboriginal people in the three storeys, in the three floors over there. And I don't think we got the numbers there in terms of Aboriginal people. So people from N'dilo and Dettah, or wherever they come from, they want to go over there. Yes, the president might be there, but they need to talk to somebody to convey in their language anything pertaining to housing. So I just want to say if you could help commit to maybe look at this and trying to get somebody into that office. Thank you.
Thank you, Member. Minister Chinna.
Thank you, Madam Chair. Just for the Member as well too, that our vicepresident for district operations is Indigenous. We have hired an advisor to the Office of the President as well too who is Indigenous and originally comes from Behchoko. We do have our North Slave district that was previously vicepresident as well too and came from smaller communities, and that was Indigenous as well too. I feel that there is a balance in our office as well, and I think that when we get into the communities that working with Indigenous governments is a priority. I am Indigenous myself. I come from a smaller community. Indigenous representation is a priority of this portfolio. And I think we've made quite significant progress. When we're getting into the smaller communities as well too, I'm making sure that my team is there, that they do relate, and they do have those open conversations with local people, not just the leadership but actually going into houses, taking the notes, and actually understanding what are the needs in the smaller communities and within the city as well too. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Minister. Members, do we have any other questions for Members on NWT Housing Corporation Department of Executive? Member for Thebacha.
Thank you, Madam Chair. I just want to question the Minister on the allocation of staff. You know, we have 107 positions and we have North Slave and Yellowknife that are in Yellowknife. So we have 65 staff. It's really misleading how the numbers come out because if you go to the table of active positions summary, so 65 staff are for the headquarters in North Slave and you know, when we're doing these, the mains, we should make sure that we make that very clear and we don't put them in with the regional offices. So you have 41 staff for the rest of the territories and there's 33 communities. That's really misleading. And I'm just wondering, you know, many times when you are not clientbased and you have a staff who are not driven to make sure that the client is looked after at the door, there's no oversight on how a client is treated, and there has to be. And I just wonder how the micromanaging from the top continues, okay. The person that comes to the door has a problem and everybody agrees with the staff instead of the client. How do we deal with that? Sure they can go to the board but the board isn't privy to everything that happens in that office and how the client is treated. So I'm just wondering how clientbased with a pamphlet or a booklet is going to help that client. That is my question for the Minister, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Member. And we are on the department of the executive. And so within this department, there are only 15 staff. They are in the executive. So that's where we're focusing the questions on this topic. We've already passed the community so Member, so if can you wait for the mike? We have to have make sure just direct your questions. So Member for Thebacha, did you have any questions?
No, I don't.
Thank you. Are there further questions on the NWT Housing Corporation executive? Member for Great Slave.
Thank you, Madam Chair. I'm just looking at the and I apologize if I know this answer and just need some reminding. The policy and planning, there's been quite a difference in fluctuation around what the actuals were versus what was budgeted and such. So maybe the Minister or the department can speak a little bit to why so that's on page 380, why that line item keeps sort of moving around and do we think then that the $2 million is going to be enough? Thank you.
Thank you, Member. Minister Chinna.
Thank you, Madam Chair. I'll have President Young respond. Thank you.
