Thank you. I'm not sure if we have that broken down by region. If you can just give me one second, I can thanks.
All right, so we don't have it broken down by region. Thank you.
Okay. Member for Monfwi.
Okay, thank you. Well, then okay, this crime rate, community corrections, correction administration and all that, of the total fund here, so how many of this funds is allocated to Tlicho region, because I know I know we're still in the high, you know, with the crime rate. So how much of this money is allocated to Tlicho region alone?
Thank you. Minister of Justice.
Thank you. So the vast majority of the corrections budget is associated with the correctional facilities. So that would be spent in those communities where those facilities exist. However, we do have probation officers in the Tlicho region. We're just looking for that information right now, to see how many there might be. Thank you.
Thank you. Okay.
Thank you. No, the reason why I asked too is that because in June when we went to Whati, since the allseason road opened, the crime rate increased. And they don't have I think I know I've been advocating for more jobs to be decentralized. We only have one probation officer in Tlicho region, and which is the position is in Behchoko. I think Whati needs another one. Like, we need another probation officer because to deal with the people and then the one person that we have is overworked. So I just wanted to know if there's any commitment from the Department of Justice or from the department if they're going to create a position in or another position in Tlicho region specific?
Just for the sound people, if you could just end because we got to pick up on the mic so just say thank you or something just to close so then he knows when to switch the mic. Minister of Justice.
Thank you. So there are two positions in the Tlicho region, two probation officer positions and they're both in Behchoko. And we don't have a plan right now to create a position in Whati. Thank you.
Thank you. Member for Monfwi.
Okay. Well, I just said that he should they should create a position in Whati so that way people can work with their you know, deal with work with the people over there in that community because the two yes, the in Behchoko, we have there's over 2,000 people there and the last in January, when they had the court, I know a lot of our young people's name were on the list and it's you know, it's sad, you know. And a lot of these young people, you know, there are a lot there's a lot of good people but everything involves drugs and alcohol. So if we do have more positions, we have more people working in the region, then, you know, we can eliminate or we can deal with the problem as it, you know, arise. So that's why I'm just asking that if we can have if there's more position situated in Tlicho region, I'm sure most of these crime rates will reduce because they're dealing with it, they're working with the people. I mean, they're working with the young people because it's mostly the young people. And just like my colleague said, it's some of the people are returning, you know, when the fall time comes, it's the same old people and it's we got to do something. We got to do more for the people. And I just wanted to see more jobs transferred to Tlicho region from the North Slave. And, you know, even in Gameti, they need something over there too for their own security. That's what the people are asking for, is that they need something from the police. They ask for it. They ask for a police station. We have a visiting police. You know, they come to the community but they announce, you know, that we're coming, you know. And then they come on Monday after weekend, after everything all the everything happened. So it's like they don't need them on weekdays, that's what they that's what I was told, that they need them on weekends. That's the busiest time. So we're talking about corrections so I just wanted to know that. You know, so there's two things. We want more jobs to the Tlicho region and an RCMP station in Gameti. Thank you.
Thank you. Minister of Justice.
Thank you. So I'll be happy to talk about policing once we get to the section on policing. And to the Member's earlier point about more probation officers and more people to work with individuals who need assistance, I don't think there's any denying that, you know, if we had more social workers, more case workers, more counsellors, more teachers, more everything like that, that we would be able to help people more. As it is, we are doing what we can with the resources that we have. Thank you.
Thank you. Member for Monfwi.
Well, the detachment has a jail. So it's correctional. So that's why I mentioned that, you know, like that's what they need. So that's why I said that. And then, yeah, we do need more jobs. And we need more programs and services. So a lot of these program and services will help our young people, you know. But right now, we don't have much to go on. So what does the people do, the young people? They do the same old and it's not it's sad, you know. We shouldn't have to be going through the justice systems to get the help that we need. And a lot of them are doing that. So thank you.
Thank you. There wasn't really any questions in there but do you have any other questions? Okay. Member for Tu NedheWiilideh.
Thank you, Madam Chairman. And I just want to thank the Minister and your colleagues for being here and to give us an update on your budget and everything else.
So I don't really have a question to the budget. But I have a couple I want to frame this this way here. When I go through your budget though, I'm just trying to understand what's what you guys are really doing as Justice overall. But what came to mind as I was going through this document is that, you know, I guess when I think about residential school and federal day school, all the trauma that's been happening to of the people here in the Northwest Territories and throughout Canada, you know, there are the Royal Commission report. There's UNDRIP. There's Truth and Reconciliation report.
So I'm wondering, like, you know, we have a huge undertaking here in the North, and especially in your department, and we could see the impacts in the facilities and etcetera here. But I'm trying to see a way how we could maybe as a government, maybe through the Premier and your department, look at how we could maybe try to work with all the Indigenous governments and come up with maybe a separate department or something to that effect under the justice department to really look at how can we come up with a plan to address a lot of these issues that we're having. And we know that, you know, you're limited in terms of money for your department but, you know, when you really take a look at, you know, this whole initiative from the federal day school and residential school, we're stemming from Government of Canada.
So is there a way where we could maybe try to figure out a plan and maybe work with Cabinet and going into the next government somehow, and work with Indigenous governments, to come up with a plan to tackle this because, you know, we can't bear all the costs to undertake the problems we're having today in the system but I think Canada is going to have to step up and really take a look at I mean, there's a lot of reports I mean a lot work has been done under the Royal Commission like I mentioned, Truth and Reconciliation report and including UNDRIP. It talks about the clarity and some of the roles and responsibilities etcetera. But anyway, it's kind of an open statement and a question maybe the Premier sorry, the Minister could maybe maybe talk about that briefly and see if there's room for bringing this forward maybe into the next government. Thank you.
Thank you. Minister of Justice.
Thank you. And we're always open to partnerships. Justice is not really the department best suited to deal with people's, you know, housing issues, addictions issues, things like that. You know, while they're in the system, we do have programming but once they're out of the system, they're out of the system. And so we really do need partnerships. We need to work with Indigenous governments. We do have programming that or program dollars that we provide to Indigenous governments. The men's healing fund was one of those. There are initiatives across Canada. Indigenous justice institutes, things like that, that the federal government is supporting that, you know, we are looking into as well.
So the federal government has been moving in a certain direction with some of these things, and so I think there is opportunity there. We could reach out to British Columbia and see what they're doing because I know they recently instituted some of those. So, yeah, there are creative solutions that we can do. We just need to get there. And the department has been working on a number of different things. The workplace assessment, the therapeutic model, those types of things, that have been taking our attention. But as we go forward, there are opportunities to explore those as well. Thank you.
Thank you. Member for Tu NedheWiilideh.
Thank you, Madam Chair. And thank you, Minister. And, yeah, because, I mean, I've been thinking about this for a long time, even as a former chief and a leader in our community, and I keep thinking, you know, this is a big issue. It's a huge undertaking. And I'm thinking that maybe somehow we can't do it alone but at the same time I think the Premier is here, and I think she hears me what I'm saying, and it's something that we may have to take a look at because it's a big issue that we all have to work together on and we can't solely just put everything on your department. But I think there's an opportunity here, if we all do this right, we could work together, work with Indigenous governments, and really hold Government of Canada to account because this is not our really our problem.
It's a problem that we inherited from the Government of Canada, and they've got to I think, if anything, you know, they're going to have to step up and really and start implementing a lot of these reports and these recommendations. So anyways, it's just more or less a comment. But I just want to say thank you to the Minister and your staff. Mahsi.
Thank you. Member for Thebacha.
Thank you, Madam Chair. I just have a couple of questions just for clarify and for the record. The rehabilitation and re you know, having inmates going back into society, a lot of the programs that were in place before have disappeared. Some of the programs, like some of the inmates in the Fort Smith facilities were able to work in a workplace. That's not happening anymore. And I'm wondering why that was taken away. They used to go clean all the yards for all the seniors, you know, and all these other smaller things. And it happened for years. Then all of a sudden, it disappeared. And I'd just like to see some of that programming come back into the facilities so that the facilities that are situated where they are have a better understanding of their there are, you know, most of these offenders have records but it's repeat offenders, and most of them are Indigenous, and trying to get them back into society is that's one of the ways we do it, make work programs. And you know with the shortage of common work, whether it be working at Tim Hortons or pumping gas or petrol or anything, I think we have to start encouraging that program to come back to the facilities. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you. Minister of Justice.
Thank you. And I believe in the Member's community in particular, there's been increases in the security classifications of inmates who are there. And those who are lower security classification are now going through the therapeutic model. And so definitely in that model there are opportunities to do what the Member is talking about. We have to take into consideration the fact that there might be a business who, you know, shovels people's driveways, and so they don't want to compete with government labour essentially that is being offered at no charge. So there are those things as well. But I agree with the Member. We need to you can't just put someone in a cell and expect that once they get out, they'll be or their problems will magically have disappeared. So we do need to work with them, and that's one opportunity. So thank you.
Thank you. Member for Thebacha.
Madam Chair, I don't know if this is the place to bring it up, but there's also got to be an opportunity to wipe off some of these records. Some people are sitting with a minor offence that happened, like, 30 years ago and it's still on their record. There has to be a mechanism within justice to ensure that people have clean records after that many years. You know, people make mistakes. Everybody makes mistakes in life. Not everybody has to go before the justice system. There has to be a mechanism within justice, especially for offenders that are just minor offence and happened like 30 years ago. I know a few people, even within Salt River, that this has happened. And you know, there's no place to go except to go to maybe a lawyer, which they would never do. I'm just wondering if we could see a program that would promote getting rid of criminal records off individuals that are at no risk to the public. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you. Minister.
Thank you, Madam Chair. So for people who are in the system, their case worker can help them with those types of things. It's applicationbased. It's under the federal government so it's not the Department of Justice who would be doing that. And I can also say that the Department of Education, Culture and Employment, through the income assistance program, will help people who don't have the funds to go through that process to get their record expunged. Thank you.
Thank you. Member for Thebacha.
Okay, that's it.
Are there any further questions under corrections? Seeing none, please turn to page 303, Justice, corrections, operations expenditure summary, 20232024 Main Estimates, $39,344,000. Does committee agree?
Agreed.
Thank you. We'll now turn to court services beginning on page 307 with information items on page 308. Are there any questions under court services? Member for Great Slave.
Thank you, Madam Chair. Madam Chair, I'm just curious to know a little bit around how lessons learned during the pandemic with having some of the stuff moved towards more virtual or having defendants appear remotely by camera, etcetera. Has there been an improvement to our system? I think a lot of us can see in other areas that COVID firmly, you know, forced us to upgrade and become, you know, evolved quicker in our work. So I'm just wondering how any of this has translated into court services for the Northwest Territories? Thank you.
Thank you. Minister of Justice.
Thank you. And during COVID, the Member's correct, we did utilize technology much more often. We've provided more resources to the courts to help them manage this technology because the judges and court workers aren't necessarily tech people themselves. There have been videoconferencing systems installed in the RCMP detachments across the territory so that people can appear virtually there. Perhaps I can hand it to the deputy minister for some more discussion about the things that have happened. Thank you.
Thank you. Deputy minister Doolittle.
Thank you, Madam Chair. And this is a discussion I'm sure the Member knows not only in the territories but across the country as well, and there's a best practices and sharing that go on regularly at our FPT meetings to learn from each other and the differences are not they're not so different. But as the Minister explained, there's remote appearances. We went to bail and show cause hearings remotely in detachments, so this is an excellent option for those in the community. They're not removed and brought to Yellowknife. This equipment is to be installed in 20 detachments. So the first six went live in September 2021. Other detachments have been activated as necessary. And we only have three now yet to go live, and that's Sachs Harbour, Fort Resolution, and Hay River still in process. We also have remote docket appearances that were circuits that were I won't call it piloting but we're trying out that system as well. So it's an alternating circuit where there's, you know, not matters where a judge would need to see a person testify, give evidence, that sort of thing. So there may be a facts and sentencing, adjournment, that sort of thing; they can all be done remotely. So those are the two initiatives that we've definitely continued with and taken advantage of. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you. Member for Great Slave.
I think I've got a few more minutes left. So I'm really glad to hear that we didn't just decide to kind of go backwards in time and that we are keeping up with some of these opportunities. And I think that's great if people don't have to travel when they don't need to. Is it safe then to assume that some of this upgrade then is the increase for the materials and supply costs for this unit? There's looks to be about $100,000 that was during the pandemic time versus last year and this year or the upcoming year. I'm just curious to know if that's for that type of service. Thank you.
Thank you. Minister of Justice.
Thank you. I'll hand it to Mr. Bancroft.
Mr. Bancroft.
Thank you, Madam Chair. The Member is correct there. We did during the pandemic time have considerable savings as far as travel costs go as court wasn't operating as frequently. So we did take those funds and reallocate them to materials and supplies to be able to implement these digital improvements. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you. Member for Great Slave.
Thank you, Madam Chair. And I guess just sort of more out of, like, a bit of curiosity, is there any way, and I'm assuming this has probably been looked at in the FPTs and such, but that people could create a legal challenge around the fact that they weren't able to come in person to a sitting? Is there anywhere it impacts people's rights that they're only able to come virtually? I am just curious to know if it opens up the government to any sort of liability or challenge? Thank you.
Thank you. Minister of Justice.
Thank you. And so that would determinations that the courts are making for the most part. But I'm comfortable right now, that being said with this rapid expansion of these types of appearances. Who knows what we'll see in the near future. You get two lawyers in a room and you get three different opinions on what's legal so it's hard to say. Thank you.
Member for Great Slave.
