Thank you. Minister.
Yes, thank you. This particular fund was new in this fiscal year, and the object of the fund is to build capacity within the NWT to provide mental wellness and addictions recovery support. I don't have any information yet on how much of that was taken up.
With respect to treatment, there are in territory and out of territory options. It's really up to the individual to speak with a counsellor and look at the options and decide what's best for them. And we don't have any limits on that fund. People can go to treatment more than once. They can go more than once in a year. They can go to a different place the second time than they did the first time. We're very committed to helping people achieve their wellness and to improve the supports when they get back to the territory to hold on to that wellness. Thank you.
Thank you. Member for Hay River South.
Thank you, Madam Chair. I just want to go and talk a bit about addictions recovery. In Hay River, you know, we know that we've had a number of people who have passed away due to overdoses, and then we've had some from the community who also passed away that they weren't in the community at the time. So we probably had at least ten. And it's you know, it's a big issue and it continues on because personally, like I've taken people to the health centre to, you know, to look for detox services. But, again, like the deputy minister said, there's no dedicated beds. You may not have a doctor or a physician on staff and so they're basically just told to go home and maybe come back later. And that's a big issue.
The other problem that we're having as well is that, you know, we talk about treatment, and we just don't have we don't have the facility here. We do have facilities down south. But the wait time, that's the part that's that is the killer, I guess, is people, you know, in between actually if they're lucky enough to detox and then by the time they go to treatment, they probably relapsed a number of times. And then that's the other issue. You know, we have no place for people who might think they're going to relapse, nowhere to go and get support for a day or two.
So I'd like to just ask the Minister how many treatment beds do we have available in the south for northern people? Are there a dedicated number of beds in treatment centres down south, or are we just put on a waitlist like everybody else? Thank you.
Thank you. Minister.
Yes, thank you. I'd like to answer a number of different points the Member made. So starting with the wait times, the average wait time for a bed in a southern treatment facility is 23 days. We don't contract dedicated beds. 23 days is, in most cases, less time than people waited to get into Nats'ejee K'eh because Nats'ejee K'eh ran one month of women, one of men, one month of women, one month of men. So if you applied let's say you're a woman and you applied on week two, you would be waiting six weeks to get into Nats'ejee K'eh. So the wait times, if anything, are better than they used to be.
Nobody goes into a health centre and says they want to detox and told to go home and good luck to you. That is not a thing. Not every person detoxing requires a bed. For example, people who are detoxing from opioids need opioid antagonist therapy. And there are 50 plus people in Hay River taking that therapy. So it's a replacement for the opioid, and more in Yellowknife, another 50 in Yellowknife who are doing that.
So the detox required really depends on the substance that the person is addicted to. But nobody gets told good luck. That would not be an appropriate response from the healthcare staff. The other thing I want to mention is that we had a request for proposals out to have communities develop aftercare programs, specifically transitional housing programs for people to live in when they come back from treatment.
We had responses from four communities, including Hay River. The models are due by the end of this month. They're be reviewed, and then the models will be funded as pilots in the next round of business plan planning. That's my understanding. So we are trying to provide a robust approach, knowing that this is an area that people are having concerned about, especially where it is literally a life and death situation as it is with the poisoned drug supply in Hay River.
Thank you. Member for Hay River South.
Thank you, Madam Chair. And I apologize to the Minister, I might have embellished a bit there when I said good luck. So I apologize for that. But, you know, it is tough for, you know, people who are looking for detox when there are no dedicated beds. They are put in the health centre and they may they may or they may not be provided a bed. But they need that support, especially when they decide it's you know, they want to be there. And some of them will go in, I know, and they will maybe last a day and they'll get out again and go right back to what they were doing.
The other thing that I noticed as well and is that and I think that would really benefit people who are looking at detoxes. We need probably additional or more Indigenous people, you know, providing services to those that are looking for it. Because I find that, you know, even with myself, you know, when I'm dealing with the people that are, you know, on the street or homeless, I think that, you know, I'm hoping and I sense that they feel comfortable with me and they actually kind of listen to me probably a little more than they would to somebody else. So I think it's important that, you know, we take that cultural aspect into play when we're trying to provide these services.
But, you know and I understand we have you know, we you know, not having a treatment centre here and I know that even if we had one, like the Minister said, there'd only be a certain number of beds. We're trying to accommodate everybody, and it won't happen. So we have to do something different, and that's in providing the beds down south. I've got no problem with that. I know some of the people I talk to like to go south, and you know, it's away from everything; it's away from, you know, some of the people they know. And I know others don't want to go. But at the end of the day, we do have access to detox beds in the south and treatment centres. We also have we have you know, we have access to programs as well in the territories and, you know, we try and encourage people to go to those. But I think at the end of the day, it's that it's that period between detoxing and waiting to get out.
Like, I had talked to one guy the other day and I know he's going to he says he's going to treatment. And but he says he's going to drink as much as he can until he actually goes. And but when he comes back he says he's going to be that's it, he's finished. And I'm hoping because I told I'd keep him, you know I'd make sure that, you know, I would push him not to drink anymore. So it's just that it's just those lapse those lapse in time or the you know, the time in between, you know, actually getting into a bed, detoxing, and then waiting for your time to get into a facility. And that's that's kind of where that relapse happens and other issues come up and they have time to think about it, they feel a little bit better and they feel like they don't need it. So I think somehow we've got to we've got to close that gap in time and try to get people out sooner than later. Thank you.
Thank you. Minister.
Yes, thank you. So the bed availability, that would be subject to triage like all of the health services. So if you have somebody detoxing from alcohol, that's a life and death situation. So the triage there, the triage score would be high versus somebody who would not be feeling the same effects of withdrawal.
I think that providing people with choices is the most important thing. When I toured the treatment centres in 2018, I came away having met people who were happy to be away from their community, their triggers, their you know, their colleagues who were kind of partners in misery. So I think that there are others, of course, who would prefer to stay here. So having choices is really important. And, you know, there have been some preliminary conversation with the NWT Council of Leaders about what a regional approach to this could look like. And some regions, as you know, have treatment facilities. Like, the Gwich'in have the Gwich'in healing camp.
So the community funds can be used to set up detox. If there was a group that was willing to take that on, it's possible to spend the money on that. I recognize that that's a difficult period for everybody between the commitment to sober up and actually doing it while they're waiting for some kind of external support. That is certainly a key time. So it would be worth trying that and maybe in your region because these funds are Indigenous government led that K'atlodeeche First Nation might be interested in trying something like that.
So I think there's a lot of scope here for new ideas and approaches to best meet the needs of people, and we've been trying to change along with the new approaches, for example, by funding the Northern Wellness Warriors Program, which brought 15 Indigenous northern people into the counselling workforce. And as you may know, they're going to have another group go into training this fall, and the training will be delivered in the North. So we need to keep working in this area knowing that the needs are great and that there are good approaches out here to try and help people. Thank you.
Thank you. Member for Tu NedheWiilideh.
Thank you, Madam Chair. I just want to talk a little bit about some of the issues I have in my riding. I've been as you know, I've been dealing with the majority of my calls are coming from my constituents are medical travel and housing. And this year has been overwhelming. I just wanted to share a story with you about a member a constituent member who went south from Fort Resolution to go visit family. And when he got south, they were there for a few days and then he had a massive heart attack. And he had to be hospitalized in Edmonton at the Royal Alex Hospital. And anyways, he got the care that he needed and that kind of thing and it worked out that, you know, he was able to recover enough to travel back to Fort Resolution.
But the thing is that the problem he ran into was, you know, the family made a request to see if he could get some medical travel assistance to get these guys to come back to Fort Resolution. And, you know, I've been working with the department to see what they could do to help and but, again, they only could go so far because of the policy. And at the end, you know, it's really disheartening because when we try to help and do as best we can and then we're bound by policies and then at the end when this family member when his wife couldn't get their way back to Edmonton from Edmonton to Fort Resolution, they were told that well, you got yourself down there, you got to get yourself back. And it's so troubling for me because it makes you really wonder, you know, this policy that we have in places is disturbing.
Having said that, though, you know, we do have a healthcare card. You know, we all could make an application to get a healthcare card and, you know. So sometimes you wonder why we have healthcare cards if this particular constituent in Fort Resolution has a healthcare card that's valid, who resides in Fort Resolution but just went all the way to Edmonton to visit family and has a massive heart attack, yes, the hospital paid sorry, the health card covered off his surgery and everything else but they wouldn't help with medical travel. That's one.
The other one is, you know, the healthcare card system here in the Northwest Territories, I think it's getting to the point now where, you know, level one healthcare card to me, the way I see it, is that in my mind is that we do have the military that is treated probably the top of the list in terms of healthcare card health services. And then you got GNWT employees who pay into the system to get these extra benefits. And then we got my constituents that just have the basic healthcare card that is left out and it's to me it's, you know, disturbing, and but at the same time I just want to maybe let the Minister know that if there's a way I'm not sure how far are we in this medical travel review, and maybe you could just update me on where things are at with that. Mahsi.
Thank you. Minister.
Yes, thank you, Madam Chair. I just note that the supplementary health benefits of the budget is the place where the medical travel budget is located. Medical travel is for people who are referred south for service. That is the purpose of it. So if you're unable to obtain health care in the Northwest Territories, medical travel will get you to the south to get that care. I the healthcare cards are there is one kind of card for every NWT resident. I am not sure what the Member is referring to in saying that there are different cards f or people in different levels of government. I'm not sure what that's about. So if he can clarify that, maybe I can try answering it. Thank you.
Thank you. Member for Tu NedheWiilideh.
Thank you, Madam Chair, and thank you, Minister, for your response. You know, those are the comments that I hear from my constituents in the community where there are different types of care when we have these healthcare cards. So what I hear is that the military is treated with that same healthcare card like everybody else, but they're treated a little bit different because of maybe because they're with the military here in Canada. And then you got the other one that is the GNWT employees that, you know, they pay into a better healthcare system. And then you got the you know, the basic healthcare card for everybody in the community. So what I mean by that, Mr. Minister, is that there's or Madam Minister, is that, you know, like, the GNWT gets a full meal coverage; they get their hotel coverage; the car rental coverage, etcetera. But then, you know, we got my members that are, you know that are just that don't pay into this GNWT plan, then they get the basic minimal coverage from health on the, say for example, the food. They get I don't know. They said they get a day I don't know. $20 a day or whatever it might be. But, again, it's just it's just a different type of service. And then so maybe if the Minister could help maybe clarify that so I understand it. Thank you.
Thank you. Minister.
Yes, thank you, Madam Chair. Madam Chair, I think the Member is talking about employer benefits. So the Government of Canada would have employer benefits for its staff. The GNWT has employer benefits for its staff. NIHB provides benefits to Indigenous people who are First Nations and Inuit. Metis health benefits are specifically for Metis beneficiaries. And then the rest of the population are just covered either covered by the basic hospital and physician services, which are provided free of charge to everyone or, in some cases, they don't have benefits at all. We know that there are at least 2,300 people in the Northwest Territories who don't have any form of employer benefit, and so they have no drug coverage, no vision, no dental, no medical appliances, nothing. So these employer benefits do vary according to who is providing them. And some are certainly more what could I say? More generous than others. And so if you compared GNWT benefits to NIHB benefits, certainly it would be better if you had GNWT benefits. But as I say, those are those relate to your employment. So the only way to access GNWT benefits is to work for the GNWT. Thank you.
Thank you. Member for Tu NedheWiilideh.
Thank you. Thank you, Madam Chair, and thank you, Minister, for that clarification. But we got 33 communities in the Northwest Territories, and we don't have a lot of government jobs in our communities. So, you know, I'm so it makes it really tough for constituent members in our communities that really need the care and services of the healthcare card that we have. But I just wanted to maybe let the Minister know that if I think you know, if there's a way we could take a look at the medical travel policy and maybe have a thorough review of this policy so that I know it's a tough job that you have. I know that, you know, you got to follow these policies. But sometimes in special circumstances, I mean, you probably use your discretion and that kind of thing, but at the end, you know, we hear all these stories up and down the valley and it's really frustrating, you know. But, again, you have a tough job. You know, but at the same time, if there's a way we could probably maybe even you know, work together and try to improve this policy. And, you know, nine times out of ten too it's all about funding. You know, how is this funded. You know, we probably don't even get enough money from Ottawa on this kind of stuff too as well. So, anyway, I just wanted to maybe the Minister could maybe just elaborate a little bit maybe about some ideas about how we can improve this medical travel policy. Mahsi.
Thank you. Minister.
Yes, thank you, Madam Chair. And thank you for the question. So the following areas are being reviewed right now. Medical travel, escort criteria, and that's one where I get a lot of questions. The exceptions policy which is where the policy can be varied to include people who don't fit into the other criteria. We are reviewing the per diem rates for people who aren't staying at the boarding facility. So right now the accommodation per diem is $50, which is obviously not adequate for a hotel. We also want to establish a longterm medical travel policy. This is for people, for example, who are receiving cancer treatment or rheumatology services or anything else which occurs regularly. There are a couple of other ones as well. Establishing an air ambulance policy for emergency medical transportation and establishing a formal nearest centre policy, which right now is not written down.
So I understand what the Member is saying. There is really a two tier system. There are the GNWT and the Government of Canada benefits, which are more generous than the NIHB benefits. That is a fact. At this point, we subsidize NIHB to the tune of $17 million a year for medical travel and we want to bring that situation to an end. It's money that we can't afford to spend, and it is money that should be spent by the federal government. So there are negotiations ongoing now because that agreement ends at the end of this month. And we partnered with Nunavut to negotiate with the federal government to pay the real cost of medical travel so that we no longer subsidize it. Thank you.
Thank you, Minister. Are there any other Members that haven't spoken to the health and social programs? Member for Frame Lake.
Thanks, Madam Chair. I'm just wondering where we're at with adult FASD services? Thanks, Madam Chair.
Thank you. Minister.
Thank you, Madam Chair. I'm going to ask the deputy minister to respond.
Deputy minister Cecchetto.
Thank you. Sorry, just give me one moment. I'm trying to find my answer.
Thank you, Madam Chair. So part of the services for FASD was under the disability program and service review. Currently there are 47 individuals that are on for the child and youth FASD. There's 22 currently for adult FASD that are on the waitlist, and that was as of January this past this most current January.
There was a position that unfortunately there was a vacancy between April and October, and a new coordinator actually has just started. And so there are clinics that are just now in the process of resuming that service. So that's the update on the clinic currently.
Thank you. Member for Frame Lake.
Yeah, okay, no, thanks for that information. I think given what we heard from the Minister of Education, Culture and Employment on the changes to income assistance, I think we're probably going to see more demand for that service because people will need to have some proof that they have a disability. So are we prepared to handle more demand for that service over the next while? Thanks, Madam Chair.
Thank you. Minister. I'll go back to the deputy minister, please.
Thank you. Deputy minister.
Thank you, Madam Chair. I can't say whether we are in a position to have more demand in relation to the current services that are being provided. It is something that we are aware of. One of the things that I think that is particularly difficult when it comes to FASD is the diagnosis in and of itself, of course, and sometimes backtracking. I think the key piece to this is to ensure that we continue to provide supports and services to the people where they're at and what their needs are. But to answer your direct question around whether we are prepared to meet more of that demand, I can't say that we actually the services are what they currently are today. And so we will continue to work with our Education, Culture and Employment colleagues in relation to that.
Thank you. Member for Frame Lake.
Okay, yeah, thanks, Madam Chair. And thanks for that answer. I'm just wondering do we actually cover travel costs and if someone needs to come into Yellowknife to get properly diagnosed and so on? Thanks, Madam Chair.
Thank you. Minister.
Yes, we do cover those costs.
Thank you. Member.
Yeah, okay. Thanks. No, and I expected that would be the case. Is this service offered in the correctional centres as well? Thanks, Madam Chair.
Thank you. Minister.
The program isn't offered in correctional centres but the correctional the health staff in the correctional centres work for the health authority. So they could make a referral to the FASD clinic.
Thank you. Member for Frame Lake.
Okay, thanks. You know, look, I rightfully recognize this is a difficult area to keep staffed and maintain the service and so on. But is there the potential at some point to allow the staff to travel to regional centres or even small communities to allow them to offer the service to ensure we try to provide an equitable level of service across the NWT? Thanks, Madam Chair.
Thank you. Minister.
Yes, thank you. It's important to us to offer equitable service. With only one staff member, I don't know if it's feasible to expect that person to both travel and keep up with the waitlist that is ongoing here for the whole territory. So the way we're trying to achieve equitability is to have people travel into the FASD clinic. Thank you.
Thank you. Member for Frame Lake.
Okay, yeah, no, thanks, I appreciate that. You know, I guess once an individual is diagnosed, what sort of support are we able to offer? Are there, like, case workers assigned or other staff within the system that can provide support and assistance? Thanks, Madam Chair.
Thank you. Minister.
Yes. The person who's looking for that kind of support has a number of options. They could use adult services. They could use the counselling program to get set up with additional supports. The deputy minister might have a few more ideas.
Thank you. Deputy minister.
