For that detail, I'll turn to the deputy minister.
Deputy minister.
Thank you, Madam Chair. We're currently working with human resources to determine and look at this process. This has been an ongoing process where folks have been involved from the department. It's unlikely that there will be a detailed organizational design fully implemented before April 1st. We're looking at making sure that the assistant deputy ministers and the directors are in place. But this is an HR process and will follow the HR rules regarding this. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you. Member for Yellowknife North.
Yeah, thank you. You know, I get we're probably not going to finish everything up. But can someone just explain to me I mean, there's certain positions where clearly or it seems to me come April 1 you absolutely have to decide, you know, who is the superintendent in a region. To just have two people saying they are this regional superintendent for ECC seems a recipe for disaster. So, you know, how can someone just explain to me how we decide that? Is it a public competition, do we does the deputy minister and the Minister appoint one of the two? Could anyone, in theory, apply; I just want to understand the process. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you. Minister.
For that detail, I'll turn to the deputy minister.
Thank you. Deputy minister.
Thank you, Madam Chair. There are defined HR processes for dealing with this. The first one is to look at the org design to determine if there are affected employees. We're in the process of doing this at this time. We will be following the HR process as we go forward. As I mentioned, our priority right now, and this has been communicated to staff, is to ensure that we have the assistant deputy ministers and the directors in place prior to April 1st, which is our goal. We have long been communicating that this would that there would be an optimization phase where we would need to look at the org design in more detail to make sure that the org design that we ultimately come up with is the right design and works for the people that are in the department and doing that work.
We will ensure that there is that as of April 1st, they're still able to conduct all the work that the department needs to do, especially with our partners. That's something that's a goal of the department as well. But we need to follow the HR processes. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you. Member for Yellowknife North.
Thank you, Madam Chair. Can I get an answer so okay, the goal for April 1st to have all the ADMs that I can see on this chart here and all the directors in place. Would that mean that they are all just acting in those roles, or would they actually have been hired to that role through the HR processes? Thank you.
Thank you. Deputy minister.
Take it to the deputy minister. Thank you.
Deputy minister.
Thank you, Madam Chair. It is our goal to have folks into those positions permanently. There may be some that are transfer assignments until we can get there, but our goal is to be as consistent at that level as possible and to have those people in place to help with the optimization because ultimately, they will be the leaders of these teams. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you. Are there any further questions to the corporate management? Member for Kam Lake.
Yeah, thank you very much, Madam Chair. And, Madam Chair, I'm sure the Minister can kind of sense some uneasiness from Members on this one here and especially approving a budget with almost 500 staff in it. And to be honest, it actually increases by one staff member from 20222023 to 20232024. So I'm not sure maybe I can start there. Why, if we don't even have an org chart, is the department increasing a staff member? Thank you.
Thank you. Minister.
For that detail, I'll turn to the deputy minister. Thank you.
Thank you. Deputy minister.
Thank you, Madam Chair. So the budget that you're looking at right now is an A plus B budget. It's the ENR budget plus the Lands budget. As we described previously, we need to go through this optimization period and our hope is that through business planning, we'll be able to show where there have been the changes in some of these staff members that Members are putting forward.
The changes that we're seeing right now are due to the fact that there are some sunsets of positions, and there are new positions fire- related from supplementary funding for the fire program that have come into play. That's why you're seeing the change in the numbers. I'm happy to get into more detail when we get to those parts of the main estimates. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you. Member for Kam Lake.
Thank you very much, Madam Chair. Yeah, I just have uneasiness with bringing more people into the fold when there's already so much change happening during this optimization phase. I'm wondering if the deputy or if the Minister, sorry, can speak to what the deadline is for the org chart for the rest of the staff if we know that as of April 1st we'll know who ADMs and directors are. I'm wondering if there is the ability to kind of stipulate a deadline on the rest of that?
My concern is that it's not really fair to public servants to not have any certainty in their jobs. Just from hearing from different people that, you know, work for Lands or, you know, traditionally Lands or traditionally ENR, there's a lot of concern over what the future holds. That creates really, really negative staff morale. It creates fear of sustainability of income, and people end up looking for other jobs right away. And so my concern is not only for the certainty of the staff but also for the sustainability of this new department Environment and Climate Change. Thank you.
Thank you. Minister.
I'll start, and then I'll turn to the deputy minister. So we've been working in conjunction with our staff. We've been talking to our staff as we move forward. We are engaging them in our process. It's not where we've in previous, there's they didn't have a say in it. We're actually working with them on the process. And we've had numerous conversations with our staff. We've had our staff out in the regions as well at the headquarters. So for further detail, I'll turn to the deputy minister. Thank you.
Thank you. Deputy minister.
Thank you, Madam Chair. There's definitely always concern, and it's warranted during these processes. It's very challenging for people when there's change, and we recognize that, and work very closely with folks and had many discussions about this. We made a decision at the beginning of this that it was best to have the folks who are doing the work involved in looking at the org design and the optimization of that because they know best how they work with others, rather than going in and just defining an org design that may not work in the end. And we're trying to minimize the potential for there to have to be far more work done on the org design, which would just keep people in kind of limbo for quite some time.
With this, we expect that there are actually quite a few quite very few people that are going to be impacted. Let me say that again because I misspoke. Very few people that will be impacted. We're working with HR to define the number right now. But at this point, it's looking like less than ten individuals that may be affected. And of those, there would be people that would be offered a reasonable job offer. It's very few people that would be impacted in this. And that messaging has been made clear to folks at the department as well. So I'm hopeful that people will feel more comfortable that this is a small number of folks that are being impacted.
The messaging from the GNWT has been clear that this is not a reductions exercise. It's to be more effective and efficient, and that's part of why we need this optimization phase which will culminate in a business plan and that is where it's intended to show the changes so we have time to make sure that we're doing it right. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you. Member for Kam Lake.
Thank you very much, Madam Chair. Madam Chair, my next question is in regards to computer hardware and software. One of the things that helps the government be a lot more effective and efficient is being able to have systems that speak to one another. Is there a concern from ECC in terms of amalgamating the software that each department is currently using or in being able to have kind of, for example, Lands software be able to speak to other departments for more effective and efficient working relationships and breaking down silos. Is there a concern that this value is enough or not enough, or is there concerns around, I guess, the digitization piece? Thank you.
Thank you. Minister.
Could the Member tell us exactly what page she's on. Thank you.
For that detail, I'll turn to the deputy minister. Thank you.
Thank you. Deputy minister.
Thank you, Madam Chair. So this computer hardware and software line is for corporate management, so it's for the directorate layer of the department. So we're not concerned. The variance that you're seeing here is related to an unbudgeted computer software and hardware expenditure that was quite small. When we get into the more detail in the main estimates, it'll become clear that there's more funding for computer hardware and software in each of the different activities. And we think that there's enough to support the merger. There's actually quite a lot that's been going on between the departments right now looking at making sure that things talk to each other and that we're going to be able to continue with business as usual as of April 1st. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you. Member for Kam Lake.
Are there questions under corporate management? Member for Frame Lake.
Yeah, thanks, Madam Chair. So given that this is a new department that's going to be created as of April 1st, one of the things that usually happens is you get an establishment policy that for new departments. And I'm just wondering where we're at with an establishment policy for this new department? Thanks, Madam Chair.
Thank you. Minister.
Thank you. So we sent a draft letter to SCEDE on February 2nd on this. But we are actually it's going to Cabinet soon, and we're processing with that document. Thank you.
Thank you. Member for Frame Lake.
Thanks, Madam Chair. Yeah, I'm not sure how much detail I can get into but I think it would be fair to say that there was significant concerns expressed about what was in the establishment policy and, probably more importantly, what wasn't there. What kind of changes are going to be made and are we going to see it before it's finalized by Cabinet? Thanks, Madam Chair.
Thank you. Minister.
So we seen we've got their recommendations. There's some recommendations that we agreed to and some that we did not. But we will be getting back to committee on what we're how we're proceeding. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you. Member for Frame Lake.
Yeah, okay, thanks. Well, glad to hear that some of the concerns, and they were pretty serious, were actually acted on. But I guess are the Regular MLAs going to get to see that before it's approved by Cabinet, I guess is my question. Thanks, Madam Chair.
Thank you. Minister.
Thanks. For that detail, I'll turn to the deputy minister. Thank you.
Thank you. Deputy minister.
Thank you, Madam Chair. We look closely at the input that was provided from committee. Some of the input was at a level that generally is not in an establishment policy although we recognize the intent and importance of the input that was provided. Where it was consistent with the input into an establishment policy, we did that. And we are we will be providing, as the Minister mentioned, comments back during the process with where those edits have been made. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you. Member for Frame Lake.
