Thank you, Madam Chair. So actually there's been a look at the workload and that's how we ended up with the ADMs that we have. So right now at Environment and Natural Resources, the ADM that's responsible for wildlife and fire is also responsible for all of the ops, the regional ops for the territory, right. So all the superintendents also work with them. So we looked at dividing out the workload. Fire has a large budget. That's what you're seeing there with that big budget piece, but we looked at what the workload was and tried to make those equal, as equal as possible.
With respect to the regional ops ADM, there is one issue that we need to work on through optimization and that's at ENR, the way that the budgets were done, the regional ops portion of the budgets was part of wildlife or part of environment, for example. For Lands, they have a regional ops budget. So in this budget, you'll see that there's a relatively small budget for regional ops and it's because we need to work to try to show the ENR the ENR one is in the actual activity. Under wildlife, for example, the regional ops is there as well, and we need to work towards for next main estimates to be able to display that better. So hopefully that helps with the explanation of why there's a difference in the level of funding that you can see there but the workloads have been balanced. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you. Member for Great Slave.
Thank you. So just to make sure that I understand it correctly it's been a long few weeks. So then that means that in the next estimates we sort of start to see the ops pieces pulled out of these specific sort of wildlife forest management, for example, and moved into the regional operations so that it will become more of a fulsome look? And I see everybody nodding their heads so I'm going to say take that as a yes and not go back to them and ask my next question, which is around some of these pieces, like the traditional knowledge funding, the water strategy action plan, etcetera, in the contribution. And, again, I always just want to put a plug in, because I know these are great areas in which we can get youth out and money into communities and have the people come and what's the word the guardians, etcetera, all be involved.
So I'm just curious to know why we're not seeing too much of an increase here. I mean, I guess we are a bit and no, that's something else. But, yeah, we aren't seeing more of an increase into these types of programs where we really could be facilitating that development of those skill sets in youth and others. Thank you.
Thank you. Minister.
For that detail, I'll turn to the deputy minister. Thank you.
Thank you. Deputy minister.
Thank you, Madam Chair. One of the awkward things about main estimates is that when we go section by section, we don't see all of the traditional knowledge funding that's put forward, right. So we're seeing it piece by piece that applies to this particular section of the main estimates. I would definitely say that there's far more money that's being spent on traditional knowledge throughout the entire main estimates than what's being displayed in this one part of it. We're always looking for opportunities to include multiple knowledge systems in the work that we do to include youth and to make sure that we're working with elders in the work that we do. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you. Member for Great Slave.
Thank you, Madam Chair. And I guess I just always come back to this one because it's I just know for myself and having getting into sciences and such, it's usually just one exposure to one sort of professional that might make that difference for yourself. So is it possible for us, and I know that there's a lot of work already being done here, but at some point to maybe have that all gathered together. And I get that ENR or ECC now is a very technical type department; however, a lot of that work that's being done there is so important when it comes to traditional knowledge and Indigenous people that I feel like we you know, it would be nice to know what all is being done in one place at some point to sort of look at or analyze the spending in this department and see actually and not just from a like how can we do it better, but how good are we doing it, you know, and maybe being a good news story about further conversation around our regulatory process and how we do involve the peoples whose land it actually is. Thank you.
Thank you. Minister.
It's going to the deputy minister. Thank you.
Okay. Deputy minister.
Thank you, Madam Chair. So we do have a traditional knowledge annual report, and one of the functions that ENR has right now that will be part of ECC is the coordination for traditional knowledge reporting for the whole of the GNWT. And we're working on a traditional knowledge action plan that we have input from Indigenous governments and Indigenous people across the Northwest Territories that will be we're looking at for the end of this year, which will also help with that.
There are traditional knowledge line items kind of peppered throughout the main estimates here so you can see where the department is working on it. But those two pieces are where they're kind of pulled together, the work that's being done on TK within the department and also among all GNWT departments. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you. Member for Great Slave.
Thanks, Madam Chair. Yeah, and I really do appreciate that, and I obviously need to get my hands on the latest traditional knowledge report and see so that I can speak better to it.
I guess I do want to come back a little bit to the spill that did occur in Alberta that we weren't notified about. Is there a mechanism in place I guess, first of all, was the spill reported through their own mechanisms that we have such as the 24hour spill report line? So were they following the regulatory process and if so, is there some way that someone in our department or our government is checking that, or do we just only rely on them notifying us? Thank you.
Thank you. Minister.
For that detail, I'll turn to the deputy minister. Thank you.
Thank you. Deputy minister.
Thank you, Madam Chair. So our understanding is that Imperial Oil did, in May of last year, let the regulator know that there was seepage that was occurring. That information was not relayed to us at that time. We also understand that in early February there was a spill, and that information was not relayed to us at that time. That's why you would have heard the Minister's statement, and we've been in discussions with Alberta.
Their perspective on this at this point in time is that they didn't think that they thought that it was contained and would not be able to get into the tributaries and into the Athabasca River. We have suggested that we feel that with seepage, that's hard to ascertain and that with spring melt runoff, there is a likelihood that some of that could potentially get into tributaries. So it's not up to the company itself to report to the GNWT, and we don't always have access to spill reports in other jurisdictions. It is written into the agreement that the Government of Alberta will notify us of these spills. And to be honest with you, they've done a fairly good job of notifying us of some of the other spills that have happened in certain basins. This one, obviously not. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you. Member for Great Slave.
Thank you, Madam Chair. And with my previous hat on, I can understand exactly how this would have happened and sometimes, you know, just a spill gets reported and it really doesn't have much consequence and so therefore it probably just didn't trigger anybody in Alberta to actually think to tell us.
I guess I have already requested, and I hope that I'll get them, any technical reports that were issued or given to us. And I guess with my last minute left, can the Minister or department speak to what actually was spilled? Like, what are the contaminants of concern and, you know, is it just around hydrocarbons or are we looking at other chemicals and such used in the process? And if so, how far out did they spread that they're aware of now? Thank you.
Thank you. Minister.
For that detail, I'll turn to the deputy minister. Thank you.
Thank you. Deputy minister.
Thank you, Madam Chair. So it was industrial wastewater that was spilled and also that is seeping is my understanding. And we are actually scheduled for a briefing with Imperial on Thursday. Alberta did respond last Thursday, and there was a briefing with folks from the Alberta Energy Regulator that we attended. And to answer some more questions, we have a briefing where we can ask some of these questions as well. So hydrocarbons, and then there were a number of other metals and sulfides. So metals like arsenic and things that you would expect would be associated with this type of work. And we do not have technical reports at this time. I'm assuming that that's that the technical briefing will be what we get on Thursday. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you. Minister.
No, thank you. Yes, sorry. I just wanted to tell the I do have a meeting with the Minister on Thursday at 1 o'clock. So I will be having that conversation with the Minister Savage as well. And we have written out a letter to Minister Savage and to the federal minister, and we're in the process of trying to table those documents here in the House. Thank you.
Thank you. Member for Hay River South.
Thank you, Madam Chair. Madam Chair, you know, I guess the topic of water is very important. You know, the Mackenzie River basin I think counts for about has a drainage area of about 1.8 million square miles, which is about 20 percent of Canada's land mass. And you know, it all comes down, you know, funneling through this area. And, you know, as we see more development in south, the bigger the impact could be. And, you know, with the Kearl spill, for some reason we missed it. Partly because, I guess, we weren't informed by the Alberta government. And secondly, I'm not sure if anybody was monitoring, you know, the media or as well the Alberta regulator's pages as well, web pages or whatever. And, you know, I think that it's important that we do that. But anyways, we missed it and now it's big news all over. But one thing that I guess I'm interested in is that we do have these transboundary water agreements. And how many do we have, I guess, with respect to, you know, the Mackenzie River basin? Thank you.
Thank you. Minister.
So we have three. One with the Yukon government, one with BC, and one with the Alberta government.
Thank you.
Sorry, and we're negotiating with Saskatchewan.
Thank you. Member for Hay River South.
Thank you, Madam Chair. And the minister in I think in the media there had indicated that they would be using a dispute mechanism. And I'm just wondering, you know, how or if that mechanism has been used and how it will be used in this instance with the Kearl spill. Thank you.
Thank you. Minister.
So this is the first time it's being used. We've tried to do the other process of reaching out to the Alberta government and getting the information this way. But because of the severity of this spill and them not telling us information that we needed, we've implemented this. And for the detail on how the process works, I'm going to, with your permission, turn to the deputy minister. Thank you.
Thank you. Deputy minister.
Thank you, Madam Chair. So there's a number of things that can be done under the dispute resolution mechanism, and we're working with Alberta right now on what this will look like for this one. So there's a discussion of where we would like to go with this.
The GNWT's perspective is that we would like an independent look to come back to the bilateral management committee and tell them what their thoughts are on this. It is under the agreement that Alberta government's responsibility to notify us of spills. That's one of the reasons that we signed the agreement. And part of it was because we were learning about things in the media in the past. And I will say again that, in general, Alberta has let us know about spills in the past. But in this case, we were not alerted to it. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you. Member for Hay River South.
Thank you, Madam Chair. Yeah, I guess on the news the premier said of Alberta said it wasn't, you know, their responsibility, and it was up to Imperial to notify the parties that might be you know, that are looking at damages. But the one thing I guess with this dispute mechanism, you know, we're doing extra probably testing hopefully. Is there a cost an extra cost related to this now, and would that dispute mechanism allow for those costs to be picked up by the Alberta government or Imperial? Thank you.
Thank you. Minister.
I'll start, and then I'll turn to the deputy minister. So I know what the premier of Alberta said. We don't have an agreement with the industry. We have an agreement with the Government of Alberta. And I've made that very clear it is with them that they need to be sharing this information. So I need to make that very clear. I've had that conversation today. And so sharing it here today but for further detail on the process, I'll turn to the deputy minister. Thank you.
Thank you. Deputy minister.
Thank you, Madam Chair. So for the dispute resolution mechanism, we'll have to see what additional costs are related to that. The monitoring costs that we're incurring could be brought forward to the bilateral management committee as part of this, and I'm we can definitely do that. The cost for the BMC are shared between the NWT and Alberta as per the agreement itself. So the dispute resolution mechanism cost would be part of that shared expense. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you. Member for Hay River South.
Thank you, Madam Chair. One thing I haven't really heard, I guess, in the news or from the department is the involvement of the Indigenous governments in the territories who you know, who have comprehensive agreements signed. And in those agreements, you know, they have some, you know, water rights and, you know, the right to, you know, quantity and quality of water as well. So what discussions have been taking place with Indigenous governments within the Northwest Territories? Thank you.
Thank you. Minister.
So as soon as we hit the send button to tell you guys what was going on, two seconds later we reached out to our Indigenous governments and gave them the same information. But that's the process. For further detail on what the staff have done, I'll turn to the deputy minister. Thank you.
Thank you. Deputy minister.
