Thank you, Madam Chair. I want to reiterate some of the things that I said. You know, this carbon tax is going to affect every single person in the Northwest Territories, including children. Right now we have high inflation. We're taxed out to the limit. We seem to be sending every you know, sending everything to Ottawa and then they give it away to some other place, but they don't look after us. You know, that should not be happening. If we don't look after our own first, then we look after no one. We're not in a situation where we can build new businesses. I am very probusiness; always was and that will never change, whether it be small or large, because for a business to thrive you have to have you have to have development. You have to have all these other things with it. And I support the Minister on that, always. But a 14 percent increase overall will affect each and every person in this room, outside this room, and the people on the street. A lot of people will go without because they're just trying to pay the bills just to make sure that they still have a roof over their head. Those are very serious situations that our people will be in. Whether you have a high-paying job, a low-paying job, or a middle-class job, it doesn't matter. They're all our people, and we have to look at it from a wide like, with a different lens. Every single person, including our children, are going to be affected by this. And who speaks on behalf of these people? We do. That's why we were elected. We were elected to speak for the wishes of the people of our constituency and for the people of the Northwest Territories. And I feel very strongly on this bill, and I said so right from the beginning, and I will not be supporting this bill until drastic changes are made to ensure that we're addressing all those concerns with business, with seniors, with Indigenous governments, and with ordinary people and for the poor. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you. To the motion.
Question.
Question has been called. All those in favour? All those opposed? Abstentions? The motion is carried.
Carried
Mr. Johnson.
Thank you, Madam Chair. I move that this committee recommends the Government of the Northwest Territories provide a response to this report within 120 days. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you. The motion is in order. To the motion.
Question.
Question has been called. All those in favour? All those opposed? Abstentions? The motion is carried.
Carried
Thank you, committee. Do you agree that you've concluded consideration of Committee Report 4519(2)?
Agreed
Thank you, committee. We have concluded consideration of Committee Report 4519(2), Standing Committee on Government Operations Report on Bill 60: An Act to Amend the Petroleum Products and Carbon Tax Act. We'll take a short recess.
SHORT RECESS
I now call Committee of the Whole back to order. Committee, we've agreed to consider Tabled Document 81319(2), 20232024 Main Estimates. We will now consider the Department of Infrastructure. Does the Minister of Infrastructure have any opening remarks?
Thanks, Madam Chair. I am here to present the 20232024 Main Estimates for Department of Infrastructure. Overall, the department's estimates propose an increase of $16.4 million or 5.6 percent over the 20222023 Main Estimates. These estimates support the mandate objectives for the Department of Infrastructure while continuing to meet the GNWT's fiscal objectives to prioritize responsible and strategic spending.
Highlights of these proposed estimates include:
Forced Growth increases of $1.8 million, that include $821,000 for increased costs to winter and allseason road operations, $364,000 for mobile equipment fuel, $208,000 for regional airport contract services, and $381,000 for DIIMS software licenses, maintenance, and support;
New initiatives of $1.9 million include funding for the updated energy action plan, and electric vehicle charging stations funded through the Zero Emissions Vehicles Infrastructure Plan;
The estimates also include total sunsets of $1.3 million that is primarily associated with the Low Carbon Economy Leadership Fund, which is currently in the process of being renewed;
Amortization estimates increased by $4.1 million to reflect new assets coming into service; and,
Finally, a budget increase of $10.4 million due to a required change of accounting treatment for costs related to agreements previously classified as projects on behalf of third parties to comply with the Auditor General and accounting standards.
Notably, these estimates also include the interdepartment transfer of $14 million from the Department of Finance to support annual service payments for the Tlicho Highway. This change is not reflected in the proposed increase, as prior year amounts have been restated for comparability.
These estimates support the priorities of the 19th Assembly and the vision of Budget 2023 by:
Continuing the work in expanding the reach of energy conservation and efficiency initiatives guided by the 2030 Energy Strategy, continued core and supplementary program funding to the Arctic Energy Alliance, and the release of the most recent energy action plan with new rebates and grants;
Ensuring government procurement and contracting maximizes benefits to residents and businesses, through collaborative work with other GNWT departments in reviewing procurement policies and practices and exercising procurement processes that align best with the interest of NWT businesses and residents;
Continuing to increase regional decisionmaking and authority through ongoing engagement with our Indigenous partners; and,
Maintaining our annual investment of $1.5 million of financial contributions to communities through the Community Access Program to improve local transportation infrastructure for access roads, winter roads, ice roads, marine facilities, and trails.
That concludes my opening remarks. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you. Do you wish to bring witnesses into the House?
Yes.
Sergeantatarms, please escort the witnesses into the Chamber.
Minister, would you please introduce your witnesses.
Thank you, Madam Chair. Madam Chair, to my left I have my deputy minister for asset management, David Moore. And to my right I have my director Connie Lee, director for corporate services.
Thank you. Does committee agree to proceed to the detail contained in the tabled document?
Agreed.
Committee, we will defer the departmental summary and review the estimates by activity summary beginning with asset management, starting on page 258, with information items on page 259 and 260. Member for Yellowknife North.
Thank you, Madam Chair. I promise I'm only going to try and only talk for about ten minutes this whole main estimates review, and all of it's going to be about asset management. And I know this section's called asset management but I guess more in regards to all of the assets in the department.
Last earlier in this session, the Minister gave an update on road construction and she said there was, you know, $45 million improving our highways and bridges and 160 kilometres of chip seal. And as she was giving that statement, I tried to look through previous, you know, main estimates and the capital budget and whatever documents existed to get a sense of what that number meant. You know, it's kind of a completely meaningless number, I think, in context without any context. You know, the department's budget is over $300 million. We spend hundreds of millions on capital for roads and bridges so it's just hard to know whether $45 million is any amount of money. And, you know, I get the department wants to kind of celebrate its work, but it would be helpful if there was some sort of public information on how much we spend each year, what is the state of our roads and bridges, how often they're inspected, you know, and so you could look back in time to see whether we're spending more or less or whether maybe we did far more than 160 kilometres every single year before that. But that's not currently public information. Many jurisdictions publish their departments of transportation publish some sort of highways report, roads and bridges report. It just kind of summarizes the quality of everything and the cost of everything and the work that's going on. I know the department obviously has all that information, but is publishing it in some sort of form that's coherent something the Minister would be willing to do? Thank you
Thank you. Minister of Infrastructure.
Thank you, Madam Chair. So, you know, the Member's speaking to one of the comments I made in earlier session and right now the Department of Infrastructure is working on what we're calling a dashboard. So the dashboard is kind of a big picture of all the different highways, you know, Highway No. 1, 3, 4, 7, 8, 9, 10, all the different highways, and to be able to have a picture of what it is we're doing. And if you can, Madam Chair, ask David Mr. Moore to speak a little bit more about this because I think this is really exciting, and I think that's what the Member was asking us to do. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you. Mr. Moore.
Thank you, Madam Chair. Just reinforcing the Minister's note that, yes, we are indeed working towards the development of a dashboard that will look at all our assets, including our horizontal assets or our highways and our bridges as, you know, it's very important to understand the condition of those assets and how they're changing over time as well as the investments that we're making in those assets. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you. Member for Yellowknife North.
Thank you, Madam Chair. Yeah, you know, I am probably very excited for this dashboard, and I guess it's a bit of a wait and see what's in it. Yeah, and I think there's a bit of a tension that goes on in that, you know, we as Regular MLAs in confidence get the kind of longterm capital planning and the needs assessment and, you know, I have requested it, you know confidentially, to see, you know, the asset management planning that we do and the deferred maintenance but none of that is public, you know, and there's this tension, I think, of we don't want to necessarily show everyone how bad our deferred maintenance is and that we're not funding it. But I think we got to make some step in the middle to show, okay, this is all the things we should be doing but we're not actually going to do it. So in terms of a question there, can the Minister just provide us an update when they expect that dashboard to be complete? Thank you.
Thank you. Minister.
Thank you, Madam Chair. Madam Chair, we're aiming at the fall. Thank you.
Thank you. Member for Yellowknife North.
Thank you, Madam Chair. And then I guess there is, you know, there is to me, there's the goal of reporting on the quality and condition and all the work that we're doing with all the assets everywhere that we own, the multibillion dollars worth, and then I'm wondering if the dashboard would speak to kind of tracking ongoing infrastructure projects or whether that would be another initiative. What I picture is, you know, we often pass these capital estimates and they and some community says they're going to get a small local project done and then it gets carried over and carried over and it never actually gets complete. And, you know, unless you're really diligent in following up, you don't actually know what's being complete. So is would the dashboard speak to kind of tracking how ongoing construction is going with regards to infrastructure projects? Thank you.
Thank you. Minister.
Thank you, Madam Chair. Madam Chair, I'm going to get Mr. Moore to speak a little bit more about some of the details because I think that's very technical. Thank you.
Thank you. Mr. Moore.
Thank you, Madam Chair. The vision of the dashboard is, as the Member mentioned, to look at the status of our assets over time and to monitor it over time, looking at the state of all vertical and horizontal assets in the territory. We're also working with other GNWT departments in this regard.
With respect to looking at projects themselves, there's a couple of avenues there. We work with our partners in the Department of Finance on the annual IAP, the infrastructure acquisition plan, which is posted on the Department of Finance website. We also do an industry day, a session each year, which details the projects on a year by year basis. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you. Member for Yellowknife North.
Yeah, thank you, Madam Chair. I guess a comment, you know, is that perhaps the department could look into a final way of confirming when something is actually complete. There's no actual place you can find "oh, this project got finished" unless some sort of press release is done because it falls off the infrastructure acquisition plan and it's not on the capital budget anymore, we just assume it's done. But as we know, there are plenty of buildings that are not done or years later, you know, not occupied or various reasons for not being done. So can the department look at some sort of way of reporting what finally got finished? Thank you.
Thank you. Minister.
Thank you, Madam Chair. Madam Chair, I'll take that as a comment. But, I mean, I'm hoping that the dashboard will be able to collect some of that information as well. Thanks.
All right. Are there any further questions to asset management? Member for Great Slave.
Thank you, Madam Chair. I just wanted to ask I appreciate the questions my colleague was asking around sort of getting a better handle on reporting and where our assets are at. I remember at one point trying to ask for a lessons learned presentation at NAPEG on the Deh Cho Bridge and everybody being like oh my god, we can't talk about that. So I do hope there is a move towards, you know, more transparency because there isn't a way to learn if we don't actually look at what and that was sorry, that was way back in my earlier life, not this Assembly.
So my question here is that I have some concern, and this information could be given to me after the fact, about the level of expertise in the department these days. I am concerned about whether or not we have the adequate number of engineers and technical design and project managers that we really need for the execution of a lot of our projects. Particularly asset management is a struggle, people with building experience, etcetera. And I do recognize that the ADM himself is an engineer although I do know that your background or his background is more with governments versus project leads. So I just I do have some concerns there. And could the department or the Minister speak to where we're sitting at respect to the vacancies or the filling of those types of technical positions but also what's being done I'm also concerned about the retirement of some of our technical staff. So if there could be some information provided there, that would be great. Thank you.
Thank you. Minister.
Thank you, Madam Chair. Madam Chair, David is the ADM for asset management which means he's in charge of all the engineers in the department. So if I can just turn it over to Mr. Moore.
Thank you. Mr. Moore.
Thank you, Madam Chair. I would completely agree that recruitment and retention of professionals, engineers and architects specifically, is a challenge nationally and in the GNWT. We have positions posted, for example, that are open trying to get applicants as do other jurisdictions. That being said, we have an amazing team of highly qualified professionals in all aspects of asset management. And we also work with private sector very closely and academia leveraging that expertise both within the GNWT and nationally and internationally. So I think we are well represented. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you. Member for Great Slave.
Thank you, Madam Chair. And, yeah, I've definitely had the opportunity to work with several of the technical people in the department, and I do agree. I just know that yeah, as stated it is competitive and one where we wear a lot of liability. I think it's an area where you can't just sort of say it's the general issue with, you know, recruitment because you can't just put warm bodies into these positions. So it is something that I think the department really needs to start getting a grasp on. And given also too that I'm not sure where we're at from the recruitment or sort of the graduation rates of engineers, but I don't believe things are really picking up that we're really graduating a lot more engineers in Canada. So I think that's just one that I'll leave but follow up later.
When the I hear the deputy or sorry, the assistant deputy minister talking about working with the private sector, and I note that there are $3.328 million of contract services that will be coming up, I have a couple concerns there. I think that the GNWT in all departments has a tendency to find one consultant at a time that they really like, and it's much easier to generally deal with one company so therefore there isn't always an impetus to break those contracts up or to find other people that could do them. When I hear and have raised concerns in this House about per diems that are paid on some of these projects by these consultants, and I've not had any resolution to it in three years, and it's the government's favourite consultant for all of their technical design work, I have a lot of concern there. I believe there's an issue with contracting out of this department towards people that are friends of highup bureaucrats as well as Ministers in this Cabinet. And so I really don't feel there has been a good handle on ensuring that procurement here has been fair and is being done through proper free trade routes.
That being said, I would like an answer as to why they've signed off on a $70 per diem for workers of the Northwest Territories on specifically projects in Inuvik and flood management, which I know is not this department. Thank you.
Member, I'll just get you to
(audio) dollar per diems on their projects. So it is this.
(audio) Minister.
