Madam Chair, I will have the clerk explain.
Thank you.
Thank you, Madam Chair. The legislation in the 18th Assembly actually didn't affect remuneration for Legislative Assembly staff, management or otherwise. The Government of the Northwest Territories at the time, these two things were happening concurrently, the Government of the Northwest Territories at the time had frozen the annual increments for senior management staff and excluded employees, and the vast majority of the employees in the Legislative Assembly are excluded employees. So when that action was taken, the ledge employees were affected. But that happens distinctly from the legislation that was adopted, Madam Chair. Thank you.
Thank you. Member for Frame Lake.
Yeah, no, okay. I appreciate that explanation. So it was really outside of the legislation. That was something that the Department of Finance of the day decided to do. So okay, I accept that. And thanks, Madam Chair.
Thank you. Are there any further general comments on Bill 73? Oh, yes, Member for Hay River North.
Thank you, Madam Chair. So there is actually an independent commission to review Members' compensation and benefits. It is required to be established under the Legislative Assembly and Executive Council Act. It's appointed with individuals who are independent, neutral, and knowledgeable according to the legislation, and that commission is supposed to review and make recommendations about Members' compensation. That's because nobody wants politicians deciding what they get paid. This bill is to adjust the indemnities and allowances for Members. So despite the fact that this Act contains a requirement to have a commission to determine our or to make recommendations that, you know, hopefully we accept about indemnities, we are going ahead and adjusting them proposing to adjust them on our own. I think that's concerning in and of itself. So I just want to point that out so people are aware that we are taking a strange approach. And I admit that these are strange times with inflation what it is, but I'm not sure if I just want the public to be aware that this is the situation. So thank you.
Thank you. Are there any other general comments under on Bill 73? Does committee agree that there are no further general comments? Can we proceed to a clausebyclause review of the bill?
Agreed.
Committee, we will defer the bill number and title until after consideration of the clauses. Please turn to page 1 of the bill. Clause 1, does committee agree?
Agreed.
Member for that's that's clause 2. Oh, okay, sorry. Clause 1, does committee agree?
Agreed.
Clause 2, does committee agree? Member for Hay River South.
Thank you, Madam Chair. Madam Chair, I move that Clause 2 of Bill 73 be amended by adding the following after proposed subclause 21(1)(1.1) notwithstanding subsection (1), the amount set out in parts 1, 2, and 3 in Schedule C shall not be adjusted on April 1st, 2023. Thank you, Madam Chair.
The motion is in order. To the motion. Member for Hay River South.
Thank you. Thank you, Madam Chair. Basically what this amendment does is to freeze the wages or freeze the indemnity for this year until 2024, and there would be no increase. And I guess the reason that I brought the amendment forward is that you just you know, not too many minutes ago, we talked about how hard it is for people to survive in the Northwest Territories because of wages and the cost of living. And, you know, we've got to, you know, walk the talk as well. And, you know, as a politician, when I decided to, you know, to put my name forward, it wasn't about the money; it was about doing something for the people and being able to lead and being able to, you know, show them that, you know, why we are here and that's to stand beside them during good times and during tough times. And right now times are tough. So I would like to see again, I would like to see the wages or the indemnities stay the same, remain the same. And if this amendment does get you know, if it gets voted down, what I would be doing, I guess, with any increase, is probably what I would be doing is donating it back to or to the ski club in Hay River, the portion of the increase because, you know, we talk about NGOs and how they're suffering. So I think that it would only be the wise move for me. And I would encourage other MLAs to do the same. Thank you.
Thank you. To the motion. Member for Frame Lake.
Yeah, thanks, Madam Chair. I guess I want to start by saying that I have the greatest respect for my colleague from Hay River South, and I do believe that he brings forward this motion with, you know, integrity and the greatest, you know, intention of trying to show leadership and do the right thing. And I do commend him for doing that. And I appreciate all the work that he does for his constituents and so on. But I respectfully disagree. I think there are others that will use this as a reason to say I think it feeds into a narrative that, you know, politicians are paid too much, work too little, and are really expendable. And I think others believe that honestly. And we probably all have constituents like that. So I don't want to feed into that narrative, quite frankly. I think we all work very hard here. And, you know, I'm probably not the only MLA that is not doing this for the money because if I wanted more money, I would have gone back to my old job. So I but I don't want to feed into that narrative. And we did this in the last Assembly. I think it was the wrong thing to do as well. And in retrospect I don't think I would have done it.
And I think it's also a very delicate time for our government, you know, now that we're into negotiations with Union of Northern Workers, and I think that this bill in general and this amendment will be seen by some as interfering with the collective bargaining process. So for those reasons, Madam Chair well, and my colleague across the aisle, the Member for Hay River North, also said that, you know, it's a no winner for politicians. Whatever we decide to try to reopen discussion or debate around their own salary and remuneration, and I don't think we should be doing this, period. But and I'll be voting against whatever the outcome is unless my next amendment passes. But in any event, yeah, I want to commend my colleague for bringing this forward, and I think I do respect what he does, all the work that he does for his constituents. But I think that this does play into others' narratives around politicians not being very useful or helpful. So I won't be supporting the motion. Thanks, Madam Chair.
Thank you. To the motion. Madam Premier.
Thank you, Madam Chair. I also can't support this motion. I do also want to recognize I understand the intent of the Member. If I wasn't into the last government, I would have stood by this Member from Hay River and agreed with him. However, I was in the last government, Madam Chair, and in the last government, people were struggling financially as well. We have heard all day today about how expensive it is in the Northwest Territories, and that hasn't changed in the last couple of years. It's been expensive here for a long time. It's getting more expensive, but it was expensive here. I know, I lived here a long time. Madam Chair, the last government we were trying to recognize the impact of and our government doesn't have money. We're a small government. We also recognize that. We tried to address the cost of living and things by voting against any increase and that did not go the public did not appreciate that. It was misconstrued as bad intentions for negotiations.
And now, Madam Chair, we're in the same exact position at the end of this government where we recognize that inflation is high. So I can't support the major increase. But we also recognize we're in negotiations, and I can't go back to making the mistake we made in the last government by saying zero. So, Madam Chair, I have to find a balance within that. So I don't be supporting this motion. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you. To the motion. Member for Hay River North.
Thank you, Madam Chair. And earlier I said that, you know, we have an independent commission to deal with our renumeration because nobody wants politicians deciding how much they're going to make. But as my own Industry, Tourism and Investment, I see what inflation is these days, and even though this bill is not proposing that we have an increase according to inflation this year, I think that in solidarity with the people who are struggling financially, that I am going to support this motion. And I will say I am supporting this as MLA. This is not a position of the government. So this is not like the last term where I believe it was the Government House Leader who brought forward the motion. This is a Member who's bringing this forward because of the I believe because of these outstanding times we're living in with inflation. So I will be supporting this. I expect it of my MLA, and I am my own MLA. And I suppose I have to donate my the increase as well if it goes through. So I'll be doing that too. Thank you.
To the motion. Member for Monfwi.
Yes. Madam Chair, my comment has not changed from a couple weeks ago. I was born and raised here. We have seen and still continue to see the struggles our people are going through every day especially in small communities. And I said before that this is not about us. This is about the people we serve in our region. And as an MLA, we are a public servant. And we are here to serve, you know, the public in the NWT. And that whatever the public is getting under the UNW collective agreement, that's what we should be getting as well. So for this, I stand with my colleague Rocky Simpson on this motion that I do not support it. Thank you.
Thank you. To the motion? Member for Great Slave.
Thank you, Madam Chair. Yeah, I mean, I feel this is, again, just a really, like, no win type situation. The intention of this bill to begin with was to smooth out this bizarre CPI high, you know, number that we currently see and this is sort of an artificial one and isn't expected to continue on like that and it now has somehow involved into some conversation about what we should be doing to sacrifice ourselves as MLAs to show solidarity to our constituents. And to me that really sort of wreaks of virtue signalling. We make $114,000 a year base salary. If I went to go work for the GNWT with the qualifications and the experiences that we have, and all of my colleagues have, we would make 50 grand at least a year more in the GNWT. A director in the GNWT makes $190,000 a year. I am a single person. When I look at other people that are making this comments about that they can go without this, they are all in dual income households.
And I think that this is something that I have noticed time and again in this Assembly and in the general where we put income thresholds, where we put, you know cost of living offsets, all of that, it penalizes single people. And I'm not saying that we as an Assembly and ourselves you know, we are distinct and unique and different than the general population, but are we going to sit here and talk about not penalizing seniors and elders and things and then, you know, when I look around and see that others who have other sources of income coming in, some people still have businesses. And all we're asking for is the cost of living raise that we were already promised that an independent commission agrees with, and we are saying that we will smooth out this weird CPI bump to not take advantage of it. So I think if anything, that actually shows, that piece of it, is what's showing that we have knowledge and understanding and awareness of what the people of the territory are dealing with. I don't think by saying, you know, we're going to, you know, not take this increase, that we're really going to have that much impact. Like, I feel already for the amount of time that I put in for 114K a year, I'm not making very much per hour. I work constantly all the time and I have to laugh when people say to me oh, I'm sorry I've called you outside of work hours. I'm like, I don't have work hours. I'll leave here tonight and I will spend the next two hours after I get home talking to people online and hearing their concerns.
So at the end of the day, people can call me what they want; they can call me greedy, they can call me anything. They can say I'm out for myself. I've read it all online, all the things about myself. However, at the end of the day engineers are not by their act allowed to devalue their work by discounting the price of it. So by telling MLAs that we shouldn't be getting raises, we don't deserve these things when we've been killing ourselves for four years during a pandemic, I think it's disingenuous, and it's devaluing the work that MLAs do, and we will continue to get the quality of people that we have seen in the past if we don't value MLAs properly. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Member. To the motion. Oh, I forgot to go look over this way sometimes. Member for Nahendeh.
Thank you. I am speaking as the MLA for the Nahendeh here and not the Government of the Northwest Territories. So in the last Assembly, my colleague from Frame Lake talked about what happened to us where we said we'll do two years of zero and then move on from that, the message was wrong. We it said that, you know, the negotiations, we're going to go this way. And we shouldn't be sending that message. I also don't agree with the fact that if we deal with the cost of living which, you know, my colleague from Hay River North says, you know, there was independent commission, they said that inflation well, if you look at inflation, we're at seven point whatever it is. That in my books could not be something that I could live with. But I thought that when we had this conversation and we looked at the various options available to us to do the model that we are presenting here is a good balance between what was proposed and the or the Member for Hay River South's motion. Again, I appreciate the Member's comments and his ability to bring forth this. Again, though, I look at it; it's about the work we do. The Member from Great Slave talks about we work 24 hours every day. I get phone calls at two, 4 o'clock in the morning. It's just the way life is. You know, we signed up for this. If we wanted more money, we'd go out and do another job. But that I understood that when I became an MLA, I knew what my salary is going to be. I knew where I was going to do it because we all do it for the one reason and one reason only. It's the residents of the Northwest Territories. I can sit here and say every one of you have had those calls late at night and got out of bed and started working. And that there I say this, we may not always agree, but the work that everybody does in this House, to me, speaks volumes when I can see texts or emails saying getting an email saying at 3 o'clock in the morning saying hey, you got to do something, or you send a text at 2 o'clock in the morning and a Minister responds to you at 2:05. So people are working hard, and I think this is a good balance between what the independent commission decided and where we are. So I appreciate the Member's bringing forth the motion, but I will not be supporting this amendment. Thank you Madam Chair.
Thank you. To the motion.
Question.
Question has been called. Oh, Member, before the bill, I'll give you closing remarks. Member.
Thank you, Madam Chair. I'd just like to, you know, acknowledge the, you know, the comments I heard from the Members. You know, and I respect, you know, that they the comments, I respect the decisions that each make. You know, we're all here, I think, to do the best we can for the residents of the Northwest Territories. And if we all thought the same, we probably wouldn't be doing a good job. So I'm glad that we have diverse views, and that's what makes it work. And for this vote, I'd like a recorded vote as well, Madam Chair. Thank you.
Thank you. All right. To the motion.
Question.
The Member for Hay River South. The Member for Yellowknife North. The Member for Monfwi. The Member for Hay River North.
All those opposed, please stand.
The Member for Thebacha. The Member for Kam Lake. The Member for Frame Lake. The Member for Great Slave. The Member for Nahendeh. The Member for Yellowknife South. The Member for Sahtu. The Member for Range Lake. The Member for Inuvik Boot Lake. The Member for Yellowknife Centre. The Member for Deh Cho.
All those abstaining, please stand.
The Member for Tu NedheWiilideh.
The results of the recorded vote are: Four in favour, 11 opposed, one abstention. The motion is defeated.
Clause 2, does committee agree?
Agreed.
Clause 3, does committee agree? Member for Frame Lake.
Thanks, Madam Chair. I move that Clause 3 of Bill 73 be amended by deleting "on assent" and substituting "on September 4, 2023". Merci, Madame la Presidente.
Thank you. The motion is in order. To the motion.
Members, we are going to take a short a break. Due to the what we're discussing here is our salaries, we have to reset for the live streaming, and we want to make sure that we continue the broadcasting. So it has to take about 15 minutes to reset because it ends at a certain period, and we don't want to end up discussing this not broadcasting. So I'm going to take a break so that we have time to do this.
SHORT RECESS
Committee, we will continue on with the motion. The motion is in order. To the motion. Member for Frame Lake.
Thanks, Madam Chair. I just love this place. Here we are, at what time is this? It's 9:30 talking about salaries for MLAs. I just gotta love this place.
Okay, I think there is a problem with this, where MLAs are talking about their own salaries, period, any time. I just think it's a no winner.
So what this motion would actually do is, and I should have let me take a step back. I am okay with going with a fiveyear rolling average. I think that it probably will even out some of the bumps and so on, but I just don't think that we should you be doing it and applying it to ourselves. It should apply to the next Assembly and that's what the effect of this motion is, is that it would change the implementation date for the fiveyear rolling average from I guess Thursday of week, when the Commissioner would come in and provide assent to the bills, it would change it on Friday to September the 4th. So come into effect in the next Assembly. And that's generally what we do when we consider our, you know, remuneration or things like that. We don't want it to impact our own remuneration in any way, so. And I think that's a principle. Look, and I recognize in doing this that MLAs will receive a 6.8 percent increase as of April 1st. We don't give that to ourselves; that's already in the legislation. So it's not like we're giving ourselves an increase. That's what the legislation already says. But I do think it is a problem when MLAs start to tinker and change their own salaries while they're sitting, and I think that's a nono. And so that's why I brought this forward, Madam Chair. I don't think it's going to pass but I guess I'm a pretty principled guy and I am going to bring it forward and make everybody stand so I am going to ask for a recorded vote. Thanks, Madam Chair.
