Thank you. I guess I'm going to jump on the bandwagon and recognize my former boss. He was my Minister when I worked for the Department of Municipal and Community Affairs. And his great leadership for the stuff that we're able to do during that time working from them. And as an advisor and I say somebody that would be able to give you sound advice throughout the time of my first four years as a Member, and his wife for putting up with him being gone for so long, Judy; thank you for much for being here today. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Thank you, Member for Nahendeh. Recognition of visitors in the gallery.
Oh since it's his first time back, we'll do this again. I'd like to welcome back Robert C. McLeod, former Member of the 15th, 16th, 17th, and 18th Assemblies, former Minister and deputy premier, also his wife Judy. Thank you for all the support you've given Robert over the years. I know he needed it, kind of a stressful job at times and, you know, it's always good to have somebody to talk to and thank you for all our service, Robert. You're greatly missed here, and I know you're enjoying retirement. I see all the pictures building cabins and on the land. Never seen you smile so much I always tell myself. I hope you enjoy your retirement and, you know, like I said, thank you very much.
And also Mr. David Brock. I haven't seen him for a number of years. He was the chief electoral officer at the time when I ran. Welcome back to Northwest Territories, or the Chamber anyway. And I hope all is well.
If we've missed anybody in the gallery today, I'd like to welcome everyone and hope you're enjoying the proceedings. Today is day last, as Doug Schauerte would say.
Yeah, thank you, Mr. Speaker. As I said in my statement, it was my understanding that as we proceed on unauthorized rights, it was essentially if it was an Indigenous person and there was a potential rights case, we weren't going to evaluate it; we were just going to put it in a box and to the side. I've recently learned that that is not the case and there are cases where we will go forward with eviction for Indigenous peoples unauthorized using public land.
My question is for the Minister of Lands. Can he just tell me what exactly is the test being used? Are there some sort of hard limits here for when we are using a test for when an Indigenous person has a right to be on public land? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Thank you, Member for Yellowknife North. Minister responsible for Lands.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the department is not taking enforcement actions on potential rightsbased cabins at this time. The department is working with Indigenous governments on an approach to manage rightsbased cabins on public land. The department won't be defining Aboriginal rights through this process.
Mr. Speaker, it's about also selfidentifying. The individuals need to selfidentify. There was a process that's explained on the post, please come into the office and selfidentify. If they don't do that, then we do not know if it's a rightsbased cabin. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Yeah, thank you, Mr. Speaker. And I think that may be where this problem lies in that there's a lack of trust and some people are not talking into a Department of Lands office any time soon, Mr. Speaker.
Can the Minister tell me whether Indigenous fishermen have a right to set up harvesting camps on the shores of Great Slave Lake, and what exactly that right would look like? Is there a limit to it? Are they allowed to set up a fish harvesting camp, but they're not allowed to do any commercial activity? Are they allowed to set up a fish harvesting camp, but they can't leave an ice shack there over time? Can the Minister tell me what the department's current interpretation of that right is? Thank you.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, first and foremost, if the individuals do not want to talk to us and come into our lands, they can go in, talk to the Indigenous governments, and they can reach out to us. So we do have a process there.
In regards to his question, commercial operators occupying public land are required to have tenders. So they need to apply through a process. The department currently approached our the department's current approach to managing rightsbased cabins is not considering commercial harvesting or operations. So thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Yeah, thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would really encourage the department to take a look at that. I think our Indigenous harvesters have a right to commit some sort of commercial activity on the lake. I know that's a complicated question, but I think it's a very kind of similar case to Miqmaq fishers with the lobster fishery, where the Supreme Court gave them essentially a moderate livelihood test. They were allowed to go out and do as was their tradition. I've spoken to many fishers on the lake. They will get licensed, they will go through the commercial applications, but they do view it as their rights.
Mr. Speaker, a couple years ago, the Department of Lands kicked commercial fishermen's boats off of the Giant Mine dock as being remediated but now there are commercial fishers who have nowhere to store their boats. And these aren't small boats, Mr. Speaker, they're 40foot boats. Can the Department of Lands look for somewhere that commercial fishermen can store their boats legally in Yellowknife? You know, I note on this side of the lake we don't have a fishermen's wharf; we don't have a fish plant well, we have a fish plant but it's a houseboat, Mr. Speaker. So my question is can we find somewhere for the commercial fishermen to legally store their boats in Yellowknife, which is pretty essential to make sure the fishery survives on this side of the lake. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. And, Mr. Speaker, I can honestly say we've had this conversation with the Member, and I greatly appreciate him asking this question in the House.
All available public land can be viewed on Atlas, the department website management system. If that's a problem, they can go into the department and talk to the staff there and check the website itself and we are more than willing to help there. Commercial operations interested in public lands may work with land administration to determine the land availability as well. An application may submit lease applications for any available land to, you know, if it's available in the lease. But also what we need to be aware that we still have to go through the review and consultation process that we follow. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Thank you, Minister. Oral questions. Member for Hay River South.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, will the Minister of Finance confirm if she plans to meet with the federal government to relay this government's opposition and concerns around the carbon tax. Thank you.
Thank you, Member for Hay River South. Minister responsible for Finance.
Yes, Mr. Speaker. In fact, Mr. Speaker, I've already conveyed that message today to one minister, Minister Vandal. I intend to convey that message to Minister Guilbeault. I will hopefully convey that message to Minister Wilkinson. And it's my hope that it's not only about the opposition; it's time for them to help us find solutions. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Will the Minister also relay to the federal government the negative impact the carbon tax has on all residents and businesses in the Northwest Territories? Thank you.
Yes, Mr. Speaker, I'll be doing that as well. But more than that, Mr. Speaker, it's about the fact that there are a total lack of alternatives to fossil fuel use here in the Northwest Territories, and if this is how the federal government wants to respond is through a carbon tax, then they need to help us find the alternatives to it. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Will the Minister of Finance also relay to the federal government the value that the Northwest Territories adds to Canada? Thank you.
Absolutely, Mr. Speaker. And in fact, Mr. Speaker, in my view the value we add can only grow. If the Northwest Territories, a remote region, rural High Arctic, if this is a place that the Canadian can come and make us a shining example of how to get off of fossil fuel use, then they can stand up internationally and truly be a star. So they should come here, and we should be the shining example of how to get off of fossil fuels. I think we add a tremendous value to the Government of Canada. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Thank you, Minister. Final supplementary. Member for Hay River South.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Will the Minister also ask the federal government to consider exempting residents and businesses of the Northwest Territories from carbon tax? Thank you.
Mr. Speaker, this one we've tried. We've tried. I've tried. Other jurisdictions facing similar situations have tried. Other territories have tried. And we haven't gotten very far. Mr. Speaker, I want to look forward, and I want to find solutions that's going to reduce our carbon tax costs in the North because we have less reliance on fossil fuel use. And that's the point of the carbon tax, is to get people off of fossil fuels. We don't have alternatives in the Northwest Territories. But if that's the federal government's goal, then the federal government needs to help us get off of fossil fuel use, provide reliable and responsible alternatives to fossil fuels here in the North. It will dramatically change our energy situation. And if this is the situation we face ourselves in now with the carbon tax, it's time for them to come here and help us get there. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Thank you, Minister. Oral questions. Member for Tu NedheWiilideh.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I would like to apologize to the Premier for not getting my questions to you a little bit earlier. Since the Vatican announced announcement, I only found out this morning of this announcement. Today the Vatican development and education office released a statement formally reputing, or in other words to reject or untrue or unjust, the doctrine of discovery.
Going forward, Mr. Speaker and I'm sure the GNWT Premier and the federal Government of Canada will need time to review the Vatican's announcement to reputing the doctrine of discovery and how this announcement will have significant impacts on the Government of the Northwest Territories and Indigenous people in the Northwest Territories as well.
Mr. Speaker, my question to the Premier is, you know, this thing is long outstanding, and my question is what you know, what took so long? It's more than a little rich for the Vatican to insert now that the Papal Bulls were manipulated for political purposes by competing colonial powers. The Catholic Church and the federal government have known for hundreds of years the extensive and negative long-lasting impacts of these doctrines.
Instead of waiting for this repudiation to come from the Vatican, what have the federal government and the territorial government done to denounce the doctrine and introduce legislation specifically reputing the doctrine and committing to the abandoning of and opposing all policies based on the doctrine? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Thank you, Member for Tu NedheWiilideh. Madam Premier.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. A couple questions in there. What took so long, that I can't speak for. I can't speak for the Catholic Church and I can't speak for the federal government, although I'd like to sometimes. But I can say that the Northwest Territories, what we're doing is I think that in the Northwest Territories, we're one of the most progressive jurisdictions in working with Indigenous governments and, honestly, in all the whole of Canada. We were one of the first, I believe, to accept the recommendations of the Truth and Reconciliation Commission in 2016. We're very ahead of the game when we're working with selfgovernments and land claim agreements. We did devolution where Indigenous governments get a say with that. We have the Arctic and Northern Policy Framework that we sat together and identified our chapters and our needs. This government brought forward the Council of Leaders where we share the chair. And just recently, as Members know, today I'll be tabling or doing the second reading of the bill for the United Nations Declaration for Indigenous People. So, again, Mr. Speaker, I can't speak for the federal government or the churches, but I can say that the Northwest Territories recognizes the impact that colonization has had on Indigenous people, and we're doing whatever we can to support our people. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Yeah, thank you, Mr. Speaker, and thank you to the Premier. Yeah, this is it's a very tough subject to talk about but at the same time it's really a big topic because I know when even as the Premier going to continue to work with your colleagues and also the chiefs and leaders in the Northwest Territories, it's going to come up now. And those are some of the questions. But some of the questions that may come is come up is what will the GNWT do to identify and remove policies and procedures which are influenced by the doctrine? So they're going to be a lot of questions like that, so I just want to just throw that out there and put that to you as Premier. Thank you.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I want to thank the Member for giving me a heads up that there will be questions, and I don't blame them. There should be questions. There was a lot of harm done. Again, I can't speak for the churches but what I can say is hopefully those days are done in the Northwest Territories. The United Nations Declaration for Indigenous People, the active past in this government, will make things different. No longer will the GNWT get to define what's best for people. It'll be working together with the Indigenous governments handinhand to actually define what our Acts look like, our programs and our policies. I know, Mr. Speaker, it's not going to happen overnight; it's going to take years. But we're starting the process. And I believe in my heart, Mr. Speaker, that is the right way. So like I said, I can't speak for the churches but I can say that the implementation of the United Nations Declaration for Indigenous People with Indigenous governments is the one thing that will change the dynamics of politics in the Northwest Territories for decades to come. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Yeah, thank you, Mr. Speaker. And thank you, Premier. You know, I, you know, we're getting land claims done here in the North, across Canada and, you know, a lot of this is based on treaties and, you know, took a long time to get to that point. Especially here in the Northwest Territories, now they're coming together. But this recent announcement now that just came out, you know, I know for sure it's going to get talked about. It's going to be talked about in days to come. And I just want to know how we're going to probably with the help of the GNWT, what can you do to pressure the Catholic Church and authorities to return the lands of and sacred belongings to Indigenous people here and First Nations and treaty people in the Northwest Territories? Thank you.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I think the Member kind of identified it. We're not I'm not going to wait. Indigenous people have been waiting way too long to get apologies from the Catholic Church, from federal governments, etcetera. I think that land claims is the way to go. I think that does give the land to Indigenous governments and so we're continuing with that process as well. I do know, Mr. Speaker, that the Dene Nation is all over this and working with them. We're there to support them. And contact me, I'm more than willing to support them.
But I guess, Mr. Speaker, I do know that the federal government listens when we mention their name. I'm not sure if the Catholic Church does. But I'd say the same thing to the Catholic Church as I would to the federal government. It's do the right thing. You recognize the harm, you see the impacts of the harm, do the right thing. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Thank you, Madam Premier. Final short supplementary. Member for Tu NedheWiilideh.
Yeah, I'll try to make it short. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. What will the GNWT do to help survivors, including intergenerational survivors, to ensure that they are able to access resources and compensation and assistance they deserve and are entitled to? Thank you, Mr. Speaker. And thank you (audio).
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. There's a few things. Like I said, there's many survivors and people think that it's only the survivors that were impacted back in the day or people that went to residential school. But we see the effects in generation after generation, and I still see them in my own family even. And so, you know, I think that we do have to do what we can. That's why the GNWT, we have the Truth and Reconciliation Commission that was set up to guide the work aimed at this very issue. And we'll continue to advance that work as we go forward. We're working with the Calls for Justice, the Missing and Murdered Indigenous National Inquiry. And the big thing, Mr. Speaker, again, is the United Nations Declaration for Indigenous People. I think that we're trying to give as much support as we can. We've I know Education, Culture and Employment has worked to provide a list of residential schools, support people whenever possible. We're always reminding the federal government of the seriousness of what's going on in the North and for Indigenous people. We're working with Indigenous governments as closely as possible to address their health, their social, their economic needs. And, again, I think that the work, again, that we will be taking forward, in governments to come around the United Nations Declaration, is one of the most progressive things that we could have done and the right thing to do. Like I say, do the right thing, and I think we're trying to do the right thing. But it's not going to happen overnight. It's going to take years but we're on the right path. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Thank you, Madam Premier. Oral questions. Member for Yellowknife North.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. No way I'm letting 42 minutes left on the clock.
Yesterday in the House, I asked the Minister of Infrastructure to provide an update on how much we estimate Taltson to cost and she refused to do that. And my concern here, Mr. Speaker, is the last cost estimate we have is $1.2 billion from 2013. I think it's fairly safe to say that in the last nine years, construction costs have increased. And I am really worried that this project is going to have a bit of sticker shock. It's going to be similar to Giant Mine which we were all talking about costing a billion dollars which became $4.38 billion. So, I think that we have right to know in this House how much we currently expect this project to cost. Is it $1 billion, $2 billion, 3, 4, 5? I really have no sense of how much this has increased since 2013. So can the Minister of Infrastructure provide us a rough estimate of how much the current Taltson Expansion is going to cost. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Thank you, Member for Yellowknife North. Minister responsible for Infrastructure.
Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, we have got our Minister Vandal just walked in the door there so I'm really happy to hear that he's able to join us. So I do want to say the future spend will depend, again, on how commercial negotiation advance between the parties, including the Government of Canada, the Canadian Infrastructure Bank, and our Indigenous partners, as the work we define, the project footprint, our progress will also depend on any issues that emerge during the regulatory approval process. So Mr. Speaker, the Member is wanting to get a number out. I just can't do that right now. I did commit yesterday to looking at a business case and be able to work with the Member, so. He wants me to say a number, I just can't say it. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Yes, thank you, Mr. Speaker. I think it's a point to know that yesterday the Minister committed to a nonpublic business case. Mr. Speaker, there's a public debate that needs to happen here of whether we are spending billions of dollars. I actually have no sense of how much this project is going to cost. Can the Minister give us a timeline of when an updated figure can be provided? I just think it is inappropriate for us to be using 2013 figures and keep saying this is a $1 billion project when we all know it isn't anymore. When can we see that? Certainly if you go through the environmental regulatory process, that's going to come out. You are going to have pretty detailed applications once you initiate that process. So when can we expect to see an updated figure? I am not looking for complete details on everything that we are going to tender, I am just trying to figure out whether we're at $1 billion or $5 billion or somewhere in between. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The business case is on track for completion within the life of this government. I said that yesterday, and I will say that again today. We are in progress of updating a number of things. Our capital costs, examining some of our routing options, the updating some of our project revenues. Advancing commercial discussions between partners, investors, in preparation for this regulatory application for the whole project. So we are looking at the life of this government to be able to share, not publicly, but share with the Members the business case. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Thank you, Minister. Oral questions. Honourable Premier.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. For change of protocol a little bit, I would like to I'd seek unanimous consent to return to item number 5, recognition of visitors in the gallery. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Okay, the Premier is seeking unanimous consent to return to item 5. Are there any nays?
Sorry, Premier, it's nayed.
Oral questions. Member for Yellowknife North.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. To clarify, once oral questions is concluded, I am more than happy to go back to anything but returning now ends the time on the clock and I am going to use it.
My question, Mr. Speaker, is for Minister of ITI. We have been waiting years for a new procurement policy that will finally give us a new definition of northern business and hopefully that definition you will remove Walmart from BIP. When are we going to see that definition? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Thank you, Member for Yellowknife North. Minister responsible for Industry, Tourism and Investment.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I have answered that question this session already. It's part of the work that's underway right now. I can already say to the Member that we do already now have unified policies and objectives for procurement. That's a huge step forward. That is certainly a good starting place. There's a lot of information on the websites right now. New manufacturing guidelines, new manufacturing policy, new guidelines under BIP. And the definition right now, part of the delay there, is we are also working on an Indigenous procurement process with Indigenous partners. That work is still underway. We are not going to wait entirely for that finish before finishing the northern definition, and that will be worked on right now in the life of this government. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Thank you, Minister. Oral questions. Member for Hay River South.
