Sergeantatarms, please escort the witness from the Chamber.
Minister, would you please oh, sorry, welcome back, Ms. Melanson.
So Members, we are now considering the Department of Justice which begins on page 64. We will defer the departmental totals and review the estimates by activity summary beginning on page 65, with corrections, with information items on page 66.
Department of Justice, corrections, infrastructure investments, $780,000. Does committee agree?
Agreed.
Thank you. Turn next to page 67 for court services with information items on page 68. Department of Justice, court services, infrastructure investments, $700,000. Does committee agree?
Agreed.
Thank you. Members, please return now to the departmental total found on page 64.
Department of Justice, 20242025 Capital Estimates, $1,480,000. Does committee agree?
Agreed.
Does committee agree that consideration of the Department of Justice is now complete?
Agreed.
Thank you, committee. Committee, we will now consider the Department of Municipal and Community Affairs. Minister, did you need to change your witnesses for this department?
Thank you.
This department begins on page 70. We will defer the departmental totals and review the estimates by activity summary beginning on page 71 with community operations, with information on page 72.
Department of Municipal and Community Affairs, community operations, infrastructure investments, $22,201,000. Does committee agree? Member for Yellowknife North.
Thank you, Madam Chair. Can someone just explain to me what's going on here with this line item? It was, last fiscal, the actuals were $18 million, and then we were advised sorry, two fiscals there was 18 then we were advised it was 66 and now it's 22. Can I just have a high level explanation of what's going on? Thank you.
Thank you. Minister of Finance.
Thank you, Madam Chair. This, I believe, arises because of the Investing in Canada Infrastructure Communities fund, and that is where we have seen a significant increase in, first, the revised and then in the revised estimates for 20232024. Thank you.
Thank you. Member for Yellowknife North.
Yeah, thank you. Can I just confirm I think before that this was money administered on behalf of others and then we changed the financial reporting, and it shows up this way. And essentially we're just holding this money for the communities and these fluctuations are based on how we get it out the door, is that correct? Thank you.
Thank you. Minister of Finance.
Thank you, Madam Chair. Yes, this is, if you all think back to the time when we talked about a change in accounting treatment, here it is in real life form showing up here. So very exciting to learn about some accounting principles. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you. Any further questions under this community operations? Seeing none.
Department of Municipal and Community Affairs, community operations, infrastructure investments, $22,201,000. Does committee agree?
Agreed.
Thank you. Next, turn to page 73 for regional operations with information items on page 74.
Department of Municipal and Community Affairs, regional operations, infrastructure investments, $32,545,000. Does committee agree?
Agreed.
Thank you, Members. Please return now to the departmental summary found on page 70.
Department of Municipal and Community Affairs, 20242025 Capital Estimates, $54,746,000. Does committee agree?
Agreed.
Does committee agree that consideration of Department of Municipal and Community Affairs is now complete?
Agreed.
Thank you, committee. We will now consider Housing Northwest Territories. Committee, Housing Northwest Territories is included in the capital estimates as an information item, and the totals are not voteable. We will continue to review these estimates as we have for the previously considered departments; however, we will not vote on the totals. If Members have comments or questions, they can be raised at the appropriate time.
Committee, Housing Northwest Territories begins on page 75. We will defer the totals and review the estimates by activity summary beginning on page 76 with finance and infrastructure services, with information items on page 77. Member for Kam Lake.
Thank you very much, Madam Chair. Madam Chair, I always find when we start looking at the Housing Northwest Territories budgets and I know that they're information items but I always get very frustrated. Pardon me?
I have to change out the witnesses. Sergeantatarms, please escort the witness out.
Minister, would you please introduce your witness.
Thank you, Madam Chair. I have Mr. Jim Martin, the vicepresident of finance and infrastructure services for Housing Northwest Territories.
Thank you, and welcome. Member for Kam Lake, sorry, can you start over.
Sure. Thank you very much, Madam Chair. Madam Chair, whenever we review the budgets for Housing Northwest Territories, I find that I get very frustrated. And one of the reasons for that is we never have a really good indication of what kind of investment we're making in housing and what specifically we're getting for that, especially when we're talking to residents of the Northwest Territories.
And so one example of that is if you look at the 20232024 Capital Estimates, the capital estimates were $35 million, 35 five, and then when you look at the revised estimates, all of a sudden we have 136. And so there was a lot of money that came from somewhere, and that's a really good news story but I, sitting on this of the House, there's no way for people who are reading this document in the public to know where that money came from, how the government got it, did it come from the feds? We're assuming it came from the feds. We don't have an idea if there was federal monies that went directly to Indigenous governments and what housing in the Northwest Territories really looks like and what the investment in housing in the Northwest Territories really looks like. And so it would be really great if, going forward, if there was some kind of a table that could go with these information items as additional information to help kind of paint that full picture of not only investment in the Northwest Territories but what some of these numbers look like.
And if you look back at all of the both main estimate conversations and capital conversations that happen on the floor of this House over a fouryear period, a lot of our questions are the same, a lot of the information that we're asking for is the same, and some of those questions, Madam Chair, you even asked today in your Member's statement and in question period, again, today.
So my first question is are we anticipating, in addition to this $13 million, any additional influxes of funding for housing from either the feds, or somewhere else, for the Northwest Territories because $13 million is not going to help us solve what we, up until, you know, our wildfire crisis, was really the conversation you heard frequently in the House, which was our housing crisis. So I'm wondering if we're expecting any additional funding for housing this year. Thank you.
Thank you. Minister of Finance.
Madam Chair, you know, I want to say a simple yes. Housing is one that has a lot of attention obviously from the federal government. Housing is an area that has a lot of attention going to Indigenous governments. And there's been significant growth in money going directly to Indigenous governments and community governments, not the GNWT, which is a perfectly good solution and one that we have, in fact, advocated for because it allows communities to be in charge of delivering their own housing solutions. So I would say that there is one one of the challenges here is that this number does not represent the total investment in housing in the Northwest Territories, and so I certainly would want that to be clear.
Now, I'm not sure if there's some further details right now that Mr. Martin might be able to provide. Obviously but let me see if he's in a position to do that. Thank you.
Thank you. Mr. Martin
Thank you, Madam Chair. Yes, so as the Minister noted, there is certainly additional funding out there for housing. The revised capital estimates for housing's for this fiscal year actually include an additional $43 million that was approved since April 1st of this fiscal year. So there is a few projects that are included, and we included those to ensure that, you know, we were able to give a full order and magnitude of official housing investment occurring this fiscal year.
But looking and as was mentioned, you know, in addition to the funding that is throwing to Housing NWT, we do recognize that there is additional funding flowing to Indigenous governments. Some previous public announcements indicated upwards of $400 million over the next number of years that reflect commitments made during the life of the 19th Legislative Assembly. So there is significant dollars still out there, and these all present opportunities for partnership with Housing NWT, and we continue to work very closely with Indigenous governments to leverage projects as they come forward. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you. Member for Kam Lake.
Thank you very much, Madam Chair. So what I want to be clear about is I am very much in support of dollars going from the federal government directly to Indigenous governments. This is absolutely a good news story. What I think would be very helpful, and would also be a good news story for Housing NWT, is to be very honest about the influx of dollars for housing because they have a role in advocating for that. So they're doing themselves a communication and a public relations favour by ensuring that that information is publicly available and is tracked in these documents. And so what I'm going to say again, and I know it's be been asked before, is for some type of information sharing that shows the information of public dollars being spent in the Northwest Territories, whether that comes from the GNWT or the federal government.
My next question, though, is in regards to the list of major retrofits on the back page. It outlines about major retrofits to about a hundred units, and so I'm wondering if Housing NWT can now confirm, at the last capital acquisition plan for this Assembly, what their total stock is of public housing units? Thank you.
Thank you. Minister.
Thank you, Madam Chair. Madam Chair, I'm going to turn that number to Mr. Martin, but I do want to just note that with respect to the extent to which an Indigenous government or community government wants to tell us or make public the amount that they're receiving from the federal government is not entirely up to us, but the Council of Leaders housing group is, I believe, now up and running. I don't know how what frequency or with which it's meeting just yet, but that will be a forum that is significant in achieving exactly what the Member has suggested. As for total numbers, I'll go to Mr. Martin, please.
Thank you. Mr. Martin
Yeah, thank you, Madam Chair. Currently right now, we have approximately 2,700 owned housing units within our inventory. So it's approximately 2,300 public housing, 250 market, and about a hundred well, based on the last count, 186 HELP, Homeownership Entry Level Program, units. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you. Member for Kam Lake.
Thank you very much, Madam Chair. What I'd like to know is if these units that are incurring major retrofits, are they currently empty or are they currently being lived in. If they're empty, then I would assume this will reduce the wait time. And so I'm wondering if Mr. Martin can also speak to that. Thank you.
Thank you. Minister.
Mr. Martin, please.
Mr. Martin
Thank you, Madam Chair. Yes, like, our programs working closely with the districts program staff, working closely with districts and LHOs, yes, as the units become available, they are allocated in a very timely manner. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you. I think the question was is are the units that are on the list currently empty, or are they occupied? Thank you.
Madam Chair, I'm not sure if we have an occupancy list necessarily with respect to planning, but if we do let me see if we can get it. I'm just conscious of the time. We certainly can provide that if we don't have it handy. Thank you.
