Thank you. Mr. Martin
Thank you, Madam Chair. According to a recent report, we have about 58 units that are vacant and now ready for occupancy. So they're in the process of being filled as soon as possible. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you. Member for Kam Lake.
Thank you very much, Madam Chair. So will this influx of $13 million and major retrofits reduce the wait time for housing in the Northwest Territories? Thank you.
Thank you, Member. Minister of Finance.
Thank you, Madam Chair. I mean, that is certainly that is the logical conclusion. Thank you.
Member for Kam Lake.
Thank you, Madam Chair. I'm going to go back to that one because I'd like to hear it from housing because I'm not going to make assumptions on that one. Thank you.
Thank you. Mr. Martin
Thank you, Madam Chair. Yes, most definitely. As we can complete our retrofits with the resources we have available, the communities come online as soon as possible and allocations do occur as soon as possible as well. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you. Member for Kam Lake.
Thank you very much, Madam Chair. Madam Chair, I've got about a minute left, and so I'm wondering there's about a hundred units here out of the stock of 2,700, how many are still waiting or in need of major retrofits in order to bring our housing stock out of core need? Thank you.
Thank you. Minister of Finance.
To Mr. Martin, please.
Mr. Martin
Thank you, Madam Chair. Right now in the current fiscal year, we have approximately 300 M and I units that are undergoing repairs, retrofits, as was alluded to. We currently have about 175 units across the system that are vacant requiring those repairs to be completed. They are being completed as soon as possible. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you. Member for Nunakput.
Thank you, Madam Chair. Just in regards to the increase on the increases that we're getting in regards, there will never be an increase in housing because of CMHC and the housing allotment from CMHC to the communities. Is our government looking at that, to work with CMHC to get the housing allotments in the communities risen? Because when the housing allotment are if we're putting in new units into a community, we're not able they're taking one out of the previous, our old stock. So is there any way that our government and our Minister is able to try to get increases for the housing stock for the communities in numbers? Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you. Minister of Finance.
Thank you, Madam Chair. That is a bit out of the capital that I've prepared for. I'll turn it to Mr. Martin, please.
Thank you. Mr. Martin
Thank you, Madam Chair. Yes, the federal government is a very strong partner with housing, of course, and the GNWT, and we were fortunate over the last several years to have support from CMHC. They provided us, for example back in 2021, $25.5 million to put towards new builds and to put towards expansion of new public housing for the territory. CIRNAC also came along shortly after that and provided, you know, about $55 million actually over a few years after that. These resources enabled us to resource the hundred unit expansion for the territory which, as noted previously, are scheduled to be fully constructed in this fiscal year. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you. Member for Nunakput.
Thank you, Madam Chair. Just in regards to that, that comment, I think with the CMHC, they might give us money but they don't give us housing allotments. Who's got the authority to change the housing numbers per community? Is it the territorial government or CMHC for the funding that we're getting? Thank you.
Minister of Finance.
To Mr. Martin, please.
Mr. Martin
Thank you, Madam Chair. This additional hundred units that are being delivered, Housing NWT obviously did undertake a fair amount of review in terms of where these units would be appropriately allocated, and we did consider a number of factors, primarily the public housing waitlist, so those decisions certainly are made, you know, by Housing NWT, taking into consideration the input certainly from MLAs and the communities. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you. Member for Nunakput.
Thank you, Madam Chair. No, so with the housing numbers, who is in charge of increasing housing numbers? Is it CMHC for the funding that we're getting? Because they're saying we're getting a lot of money, but I don't see no new houses. I seen a new house going to Tuk and then one gets pulled out of the system. We have so many young people in the communities now. We have for instance, there's a family back home and there's, like they all got they're old enough, and they all have a girlfriend or a boyfriend. They're all staying in they have one House with about 15 people, and it's sad to say. So what I'm asking for who is in charge of getting these hundred new units into the communities? Who is in charge of putting the increase increasing the number of units? Say, for instance, Tuktoyaktuk has 176 houses alloted to the community. And if I get a new house in Tuk, they're going to take one out of the housing stock and put that new one in. Then the other one gets left behind. There's no increase. We're never going to see that growth that we try to talk about, because of CMHC. But now the question is, clear as day, I want an answer, who is in charge of increasing the housing stock in the communities? Thank you.
Thank you. Minister of Finance.
Thank you, Madam Chair. Madam Chair, I gather there unfortunately is not a clear as day answer and the reason is that it depends on the operational funding associated to the housing unit. Again, I don't strictly have that in my preparations from the perspective of providing a capital plan. I understand the frustration, and I understand the question does sound like it should have a simple answer. So what I'd suggest I can certainly turn it back there's five minutes to Mr. Martin to try to explain that now but I can also commit to providing in writing an answer as to how the determinations are made because it takes into account factors more than just by one single authority. CMHC is involved. I gather the LHOs may be involved as well as GNWT. So there's three different levels of authority and, again, different funding mechanisms. But, again, I'm happy to have maybe Mr. Martin try one more time, but I'd be prepared to make a commitment to provide something. Thank you.
Thank you. Mr. Martin.
Thank you, Madam Chair. No, I believe the Minister outlined certainly the key messages for today, but we will certainly support with that written response. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you. Member for Nunakput.
Yeah, thank you, Madam Chair. You know, the federal government likes to make these big grand announcements of funding that they're giving to the territory, to everywhere across our territory in regards to housing projects and other projects, but that still doesn't change the CMHC's housing allotment for a community. Until that changes, that's the biggest hurdle that we have to deal with in this government in regards to housing for the communities and the numbers. I could use another 20 houses in Paulatuk, another 20 in Ulu, same thing, 5 or 6 in Sachs maybe, and 20 in Tuk. We have no housing. Everything's run down. These retrofits I'm getting retrofits for Paulatuk. I got two Tuk is two. Major retrofit for Ulu is one. And the outlying communities are the worst hit in regards to housing. And then we're getting a big federal minister comes in, oh yeah, we're giving you $64 million, but that don't mean nothing. The unit increase from CMHC until the federal government gets rid of CMHC and how they calculate their funds, that's when we're going to finally start getting some traction, start getting more housing. And that's what we have to push for as a territorial government. They say the LHO has requirements when they look off the housing list. Look off the housing list in Paulatuk and all the young families that are having kids, young adults having children now, and they have nowhere to go. They all got to go to Inuvik. But at the end of the day, I urge this like, our government, I know it's coming to an end for you guys but at the end of the day, on a go forward, the CMHC is the one that has to be changed. That's the problem. We're never going to have any increases. We're only going to get new units, and you're taking in and out of the housing stock. Our communities are hurting. We got no housing. People have to move to Inuvik to get into a unit. And you have no units in Inuvik too. But at the end of the day, on a go forward, when the Minister the new Minister, former Minister, whatever, goes forward, that's the thing that has to be changed is CMHC's got to be taken out of the picture in regards to increasing numbers into the communities because we're not 1960 or '70 now. And the housing numbers got to be brought up. That's just a comment.
And, like I for the communities that I represent, this is not enough. I got places that two years ago and you could almost it's just like jumping on a trampoline in some of the floors that we went in on. There's got to be the LHOs, they got to start stepping up in the communities in the ridings. And with the federal government want to come and give funds to our local governments. The biggest concern that I have is, just like here, how do we track them? So the tracking is with the council, the community leaders. They're the ones that have to track this. They're the ones that have to apply the pressure because we're sitting on money that's not being utilized, that's earmarked for housing. So we're failing. It's not so much my Minister's fault in regards to numbers, in regards to getting more houses, because it's CMHC's fault and the federal government's fault for doing what they're doing to her. And she's wearing it, you know. So I and I thank you for the work you're doing and I but, Madam Chair, that's just a big rant because this is such an important issue for my riding. Thank you.
Thank you, Member for Nunakput. Member for Tu NedheWiilideh.
Thank you. I want to really bring this one up as well. I mean, it's a 20242025 Capital Estimates budgets. You know, for what we're looking at housing this year, I'm not sure where to start, but I already voiced my concerns in March about this issue of housing. You know, I guess as the Finance minister and the next government coming in, they're going to have some tough decisions ahead of them. Overall, you know, we got a budget of $2.2 billion, we're $1.6 billion in the hole with this fire season as it is; we're going to be reaching that in no time. You know, we got grants and contributions coming from the Government of Canada and more or less 75 cents on the dollar but yet, you know, we the communities in the Northwest Territories, the housing is still a number one issue no matter which community you look at. But to me, when I look at the housing corporation, you know, if I remember the last estimates, you know, I think the budget was or $247 million not including the cost share of the finance of 72 or $74 million, but overall, I mean, we get I could see numbers but then on the ground in the communities, I don't see housing. I don't see new construction. Yes, we got some money from CIRNAC, which is $60 million over two years and what's not what's in here is and compared to the last budget I looked at, on the side note there were monies coming from CIRNAC. And I'm assuming that this is the same thing where that we're dealing with a housing crisis of $60 million but yet the monies that are coming in are not addressing the housing crisis here in the Northwest Territories. I mean, we as a government are not doing enough.
You know, when I look at Nunavut, when you look at IRC, it's getting to the point now where our own Indigenous governments are reaching out to Ottawa and getting their own money directly because we got so much hurdles, barriers that we have to jump through with this government. And it's really frustrating now. And so going forward, you know, maybe it's time that we review the housing corporation. You know, maybe it's time we bring back the Jim Burke report and start talking about a constitution. We got constitutional settled claims here in the Northwest Territories and yet we need I think we need to start having those discussions, because whenever you guys come back, all these departments come in front of me, every time they come back they want more money. Every department, year after year it seems like, that's the way it is. But we're still don't have any construction in our communities. Homeownership repairs we need. And we're not doing enough. So going forward, you know, the new government coming in are going to be faced with deficits. We're living beyond our means as a government. I mentioned that austerity is going to happen. It's concerning.
When I hear the people in the communities are really frustrated with this government, it's not on this side of the House they're frustrated. It's on that side of the House. I hear it firsthand from the leadership.
So, Madam Chairman, I just want to make this say this because I don't have questions for the Premier or the Minister or anybody. I'm just saying that, you know, here we are again approving another set of budget for this coming year, and I got small repairs here, and this is coming from CIRNAC. So this government's competing with Indigenous governments to get money for housing from CIRNAC. Is that our mandate? Yes, we signed a partnership agreement. That's not good enough. I think we're going backwards here. We got to start looking at building new relationships and partnership.
But anyway, I just want to say that because I'm tired here. I see these budgets. No problem. My colleague says ching ching, pass it, no problem. But the day's coming, in the next government. We really need to take a look at how we're going to coexist here in the Northwest Territories. 75 cents on the dollar comes from grants and contributions but yet we hide behind policies. Maybe it's time that we really review the whole government. That should be the mandate.
We talk about consensus government. Today I heard consensus government a few times here. I made notes here. When I see this and then I see that we don't go into the communities and engage with community government on what their needs are, you know, we need ambulances in the community and so on. We need a lot of stuff. But it's not my community is not on here. So when we talk about $2.2 billion budget, I get next to half a percent of that budget. You know, shame on this government.
So, anyway, I just want to make those comments because as an MLA sitting here for a year and a half, I've been asking stuff for my community. It goes onto deaf ears. I was told that the train left. You want stuff for your community, put it on a suitcase and throw it on the train but the train's moving, it just bounces off. So anyway, we got big problems coming up. And we're broke. This is not a joke.
This fire here, we should learn from it. But I think going forward, I'm to the point now where I want to introduce a motion to call for an independent review of that fire. And we're going to look at how we're going to do it. We're going to talk about that next week. But we got to hold this government to account, and to me, it's not consensus government, not the way it's been working.
So Madam Chair, I just want to I sat here. I listened to everybody today. I've been watching, listening. And I'm a little bit frustrated because, again, here I am, I'm going to be asked to vote on this budget. And how could I vote on it if I get less than half a percent for my community? We got big problem with mental health in our community. Alcohol, drugs. Where are the RCMP? I asked, again, you know, where are they? You know, we buy a service but yet at the same time they only come out in our community, they just come out at certain times, drive around. That's it. So overall, you know, we got to figure a way out we could fix these problems we're having. Anyway, Madam Chair, I just want to say those comments. Mahsi.
Thank you, Member for Tu NedheWiilideh. Member for Great Slave.
Thank you, Madam Chair. I just wanted to first reiterate a bit what my colleague for Kam Lake said regarding the way that this is all presented to me. Whenever I look at the housing budgets, I'm always wondering like well, where are the houses, you know. I keep hearing for four years we've built this, we've built that and all of this. So then I look at this that we have, and it's all this $13 million is just retrofits and a bit of, like, some boiler stuff. Now that being said, I have since then heard the assistant deputy minister make the comment that the hundred units have already will be completed as of this year. So that makes me ask well, why are we not building more in the upcoming year? To me, it seems really strange that we would go an entire year without constructing any units or even starting on the construction of any units given that, you know, we are in such a major deficit to the point where, like, you know, my plans after this, if I'm not successful, is to run away and rent my house. So it's actually becoming quite lucrative now to become almost these little sort of mini landlords and such and live yourself in one room of your house and rent the rest of it out. So that being said, can the Minister or the department confirm that there will be no building of any units for the housing corp in 20242025? Thank you.
Thank you. Minister of Finance.
Thank you, Madam Chair. Madam Chair, I did just want to note there are the promise of 100 new units in the life of this Assembly will be realized by the end of the current fiscal year of 20232024. With respect to 20242025 sorry, and I actually was I'm looking at 20232024. Let me take that to Mr. Martin to detail. Thanks.
Thank you. Mr. Martin.
Thank you, Madam Chair. The proposed 20242025 capital plan at this time, the $13.47 million, it does include a few components here. But it does include four public housing replacement projects, so that's just four units being constructed. But we did want to highlight that the current revised capital estimates of $136 million for this year, you know, that does include about 70 percent of federal funding that has been received over the last couple of years to help support the multi unit delivery of our projects. And for 20242025, we have yet to receive, and hope to receive, additional federal funding to put towards additional builds in 20242025. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you. Member for Great Slave.
Thank you, Madam Chair. I think, again, this comes back to the point that my colleague was making that the communication out of this department is terrible. You know, there is the way things are presented to us, it's been impossible to figure out where things have actually been built and been constructed. I repeatedly have asked at times for updates for units in my own riding, and then to be surprised when an announcement is made with the federal government that, you know, that the Aspen Apartments is going to become public housing units, and I've had no update even though I've been asking for six months what was happening there.
So it's kind of frustrating to sit here, and we ask questions, and then the responses are coming back to us well, there's all this other stuff and sort of this don't you know about all of this because we've been sending you these things over the last four years. However, it just goes to show that there is no real attempt to ensure that people on this side of the House understand where things are going. And so if we have to go and tease out every single little thing from the department to figure out where things are going, what's being built, then this as an informational item and the communication from the department has failed. I still sit here at the end of four years, and I'm on the committee that deals with housing, and I still could not tell you where units were built. I have been asking since, like, last year when people would be moving into the Nordic Arms, which I'm assuming is part of maybe either this major retrofit Yellowknife or whatever, but my constituent that was promised that she was going to move there has been strung along now for six or seven months on that, as her son is continuously still exposed to crack smoke at Norseman Apartments.
I do want to thank the department, and the Minister, for listening at least and installing better security options when I did come to them two years ago. But the issue I have here too is that we hear from this department saying that there is, you know, so many 300 units that are on M and I, and I know that's their acronym for things that are being retrofitted and fixed up, but I have to wonder how robust is their assessment for the units that are remaining. So yes, they tell us well, we've got 300 that we're working on but who's to say that another one of like a thousand of these 2,700 units are in dire need of repair and it's the department that's just choosing to not assess that? I hear constantly communications about things with mold and issues and all of our things. The department, when I ask them why there's a window boarded up next to their unit, can't answer. And to me, that's concerning because if you know even the basics of building science, you know that what happens in one unit affects the next unit. But this shows the mentality of the department, to only focus on their small pieces and to treat that in an infrastructure type manner and a fiscal manner instead of, like I said yesterday, acknowledging that they are a social department and that they need to be getting people housed. So I would like to ask where is the assessment of the remaining units that are not on their retrofit, or their I and M schedule, how far behind are they in looking at those units to ensure that they are habitable, and are they actually ever looking at the fact that they're liable for a lot of the health issues that people in our territory are experiencing because they have not fixed these units? Thank you.
Thank you, Member. Do you have any questions for the department? Minister.
Thank you, Madam Chair. Yes, with respect to our assessment schedule, so there is an assessment schedule that is prepared year over year. I don't have the assessment schedule with us because that's not I mean, again, I and I appreciate the connection to the capital estimates planning process, but I don't have the schedule that is for assessments for future years. I can certainly get my hands on it and provide it. And that may also then with that, we could probably speak to the rating and the risk assessment that goes in. So there is an assessment that is done it's put through a risk assessment process. That then allows for the decisions about which units are subject to retrofits and which ones wait for the next round of retrofits, so. And hopefully that will help to explain some of that. Thank you.
Thank you. Member for Great Slave.
Thank you, Madam Chair. And I appreciate the Minister's commitment. I would like to better understand the process through which the assessments are made, including any standard operating procedures that are given to assessors to use.
I guess the last thing that I feel the need to comment on is the conversation around the money that is going directly to Indigenous governments. And, you know, I, again, sat here and listened time and time again to this Cabinet talk about their great relationship with Indigenous governments but then when push comes to shove and it's time of actually sharing information, the Indigenous governments don't trust this department to share their information with them. So what does that tell you, really, about the actual work that's being done with the Indigenous governments? This is an area where nobody is disagreeing that it's important and it needs to be taken care of. It should be the one area where you think everybody would be on the same page. So I think it really speaks volumes to the distrust that Indigenous governments have for the housing corporation. Thank you, Madam Chair.
