Debates of October 5, 2023 (day 167)

Thank you, committee. Does committee agree that this concludes our consideration of Bill 80, Dental Hygienists Profession Statutes Amendment Act?

Agreed.

Mahsi to the sponsoring Member of the bill. Can the sergeantatarms escort the witness from the Chamber. Mahsi. And we're just going to have a quick recess to change out chairs here.

SHORT RECESS

I now call Committee of the Whole back to order. Committee, we've agreed to consider Tabled Document 97319(2), the 20242025 Capital Estimates. I will remind the Members that we concluded consideration of all the detail within the document on September 29th. Does the Minister of Finance have any remarks?

Thank you, Madam Chair. Madam Chair, I'm obviously in support of the capital estimates for 20242025. I am. I'd like to give you some details as to why and to the process by which we've arrived here today. These estimates, Madam Chair, propose a total investment, as you know, of more than $361 million for infrastructure in the Northwest Territories and to continue the work that's already being completed on a number of key infrastructure projects across the territory. This includes some large-scale infrastructure needs like the replacement of the Frank Channel bridge, the extension of the Inuvik runway, and the construction of a territorial fire centre, while also still supporting smaller capital projects in communities across the Northwest Territories.

I want to reiterate how much of the planned infrastructure expenditures are supported by federal infrastructure funding programs, with almost 53 percent of this capital budget being eligible for reimbursement under federal programs. We know that capital investment, such as capital roadwork, provides ongoing work for small and mediumsized businesses across the territory. On the topic of roads, Madam Chair, I would note in looking back over the last three capital budgets, the percentage of the capital budget that's being spent on roads, roads that resupply and maintain our transportation connectivity across the territory that is larger than many European countries, that percentage has, in fact, decreased every year including to this year.

I am pleased that, once again, these capital estimates continue to address capital work that is realistic and achievable, within a departmental cap of $260 million, while addressing the priorities and needs of residents through established funding streams on top of that, such as biomedical and information technology, as well as preserving funding available for planning to ensure that our future capital budgets are built on well planned and carefully vetted projects. This also provides better accountability for the projects that are moving forward because a stronger review process that involves and engages all departments is better equipped to ensure that the needs of the territory as a whole are considered. There is also less room for one person or one interest to move something forward that does not reflect a fair assessment of the risks and needs affecting the whole territory.

Madam Chair, this is the eighth budget that I have put forward in my role as the Minister of Finance, the fourth capital budget. The process for both capital and mains is similar. It includes an incamera briefing with committees followed by ongoing incamera discussions between the chair, deputy chair of Standing Committee on Accountability and Oversight, and myself, all aimed at finding consensus towards the passing of the budget, be it the mains or capital.

This process is one that I believe reflects the values of consensus government. We share significant information with Members of the House and discuss collectively what changes should be made to better reflect or advance priorities on behalf of the people of the Northwest Territories.

In our recent discussions, many people’s attentions are quite reasonably still on the impacts of the wildfire season and resulting evacuations. However, I will note I am not able at capital budget to increase operations budgets. In some past years, I made commitments during the capital process to bring forward an operational supplementary appropriation but being at the end of the 19th Legislative Assembly, there will not be any further operations supplementary budgets done or by the 19th Legislative Assembly.

That said, I can commit or redirect resources that are already available in department budgets. And I am pleased to announce that the GNWT is committing a total of $200,000 to support food banks and organizations that support food security in communities that were affected by evacuations this summer. We understand the impacts the wildfires and subsequent evacuations have had on residents and on communities who were hosting residents, many of which were already food insecure.

The response to the GNWT wildfires and evacuations was comprehensive and substantial. We ensured there was accommodations, food, basic amenities, and travel supports, and we have also put $550,000 towards nonprofit organizations who are often better placed to help individual residents with specific or personal needs, may have made them less able to rely on the supports that were otherwise available to all residents. Hopefully, these additional funds now to assist with food security will also help local organizations assist with individual needs.

Madam Chair, I am also very pleased to share with this House that the Department of Industry, Tourism and Investment is expanding its support for businesses impacted by the wildfires and evacuations by increasing the amount of funding available under its Support for Entrepreneurs and Economic Development Program up to $2 million. The maximum amounts available to businesses will double for Yellowknife businesses, go to $15,000 for Fort Smith, and up to $20,000 for Hay River and K'atlodeeche First Nation, reflective of the lengths of times that each were under evacuation orders over this summer. Further, the period of eligible expenses will extend two weeks past the end of an evacuation order. A formal announcement with these details will be out as soon as possible, and the Department of Industry, Tourism and Investment will work directly with businesses who may want or need to see a revision of any previous applications or amounts received.

These additions are yet another result of consensus government. Earlier in the life of the 19th Legislative Assembly through the process, the consensus process of discussing and negotiating every one of our budgets, we have collectively advanced other important initiatives, such as the early childhood infrastructure fund, increases to Housing NWT's operations and maintenance programs, and some of the initial funding for the homelessness strategy, just to name a few.

What is common throughout all of this, we are able to act collectively to increase funding strategically. We all have residents that we represent with needs that are not uniform across the whole of the Northwest Territories. And there are communities, and we all represent communities, in some cases we represent several communities, with needs that, again, are often different from one to the next. But we are collectively able, when we work together, to find areas of sufficiently common concern or agree on areas where the need is greater. I am proud to have been part of the consensus government of the Northwest Territories that has been so consistently represented throughout budget discussions. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you, Minister. Did the Minister wish to bring witnesses?

No, thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you. Do any Members have comments? Member for Frame Lake.

Yeah, thanks, Madam Chair. Yeah, I just a few things I guess I want to say that having sat eight years on this side of the House, one of the few points of leverage that Regular MLAs have is in budgets and both on the capital and O and M side. And, you know, I think Regular MLAs can and should and do use that leverage to negotiate what we believe sometimes should be priorities for our residents as well. Sometimes we maybe have a slightly different take than our colleagues on the other side, but that's how consensus government is supposed to work. People don't elect us here to agree with each other. They elect us here to get work done and try to find ways to work together.

I do want to say that it's been a privilege to represent the Regular MLAs for at least probably two two years in the budget negotiations with the Minister of Finance. It was definitely a lot more collegial in this Assembly than it was in the last, and dare I say, and sometimes even fun if you can believe it. So no, you know, very seriously, I think it's been a good collaborative process on the budgets that I've been engaged and involved on in this Assembly. We have a responsive finance Minister who's prepared to go out and do work and work with her colleagues on the Cabinet side. And likewise, on my side, I bring, you know, reports back to colleagues on my side of the House and, you know, we manage to reach agreement on a bunch of additions to budgets. We even manage to agree on cuts in one case. I think it was the travel during the COVID pandemic as well. So we you know, it's not that we're always asking. Sometimes we try to find ways to save some money to pay for some of the things that we would like to add into the budget. And I would say that the things that we tend to try to add into the budget are for the residents of all of the Northwest Territories because we that's why we're here. We do represent our constituencies, but when we try to secure improvements in programs and services, it's for all of our residents.

So I want to thank the Minister for the commitments that she's made in terms of the you know, it's no secret, Members on this side of the House have raised a number of situations and experiences of our residents. You know, over half of our residents were evacuated. And I think it's fair to say that most people are quite thankful that we got evacuated. They're thankful for the work that people did to stay here and save our communities. But in some cases, residents didn't always get the supports that they needed when they were away. And in the cases of businesses, they've come back and they need our help now to try to recover. Some of them had not quite even recovered from COVID. So I do want to express my personal appreciation and thanks for the work that the Minister has done, certainly within her own department, with ITI on expanding the SEED program, increasing the amount of assistance that's available to communities, making it a tiered approach so that the communities that are more affected for a longer period of time, those businesses can access more money. I think the increase in food security's helpful. Perhaps it could have been more but it's a help. But I think it did highlight the need for some more work, perhaps in the next Assembly, on food security. The expansion of the period that can be covered, the eligible expenses that might be considered, those are all good things. And I would encourage the Minister to and I know that she would do this, is to encourage her staff to actually reach out to applicants that are already in the system to work with them proactively to ensure that they can maximize the funding that they can receive under this expanded program.

So the one area that I guess I would have appreciated some more from my Cabinet colleagues is in making for a more adequate and equitable set of assistance for individual evacuees and their families. I know that the Evacuation Travel Support Program, $750 per vehicle, that was a good start. And as the Minister, I think has said, we can never make everybody whole again but I think there's problems with the equity of that program not addressing some people that flew out, and those people that were on government charters, or drove out and could not receive assistance because of a whole variety of situations, not able to access evacuation centres or the programs and services there and so on. So a number of us have raised these issues. So I would encourage our Cabinet colleagues to continue to do some work on those areas. And, of course, all of this is rather unusual because we are talking about O and M expenses in relation to a capital budget. But that's, I think, something that this Assembly has that the Regular MLAs have had successes not just in capital and O and M budgets and, maybe getting some leeway in other area sorry, in a capital versus an O and M, but also in policy issues. I think that's something that's been a significant development in this Assembly. And I would encourage the colleagues that come after us, as Regular MLAs, to continue to use the leverage that they have to get policy changes that will improve life for all of our residents.

So, Madam Chair, I think that's all the comments I have. Again, my appreciation to the finance Minister and her Cabinet colleagues for trying to meet some of our interests and the collaborative approach that we've had in place for much of the budgeting in this Assembly. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you, Member. Member for Yellowknife North.

Thank you, Madam Chair. If someone over there, who knew, would just tell me the price of the estimated building the Taltson Hydro Expansion Project, I would vote for this capital budget. I've been asking for four years. This House has approved tens of millions of dollars on that project never knowing how much it's going to cost. I think it's embarrassing for all of us that we're doing this. So one number, and I'll vote in favour of this. I don't even care if I like the project; I just want the number. Thank you.

Thank you. Minister.

Thank you, Madam Chair. Well, Madam Chair, I know that the Members did receive the preliminary business case back in May of 2022. So I realize that that is a number. I don't know if that's a good enough number. But if the MLA wants to look back at his materials, he'd certainly find a number in there, add a little inflation, and maybe he'll vote for the capital budget. Thank you.

Thank you, Minister. Member for Yellowknife North.

Sorry, this is a question. I think that's a 2014 number, but well, now I'm talking about a confidential document and trying to get clarification on it in a public sitting as we vote, which we're not allowed to do according to our rules. Thank you.

Thank you, Member. Did you have any further comments? Okay. Member for Hay River South.

Thank you, Madam Chair. And I appreciate, I guess, what the Minister had to say about the additional funding and the tiered approach for those that those communities that were impacted by flooding and fires over the past 16 months. You know, it's not going to it's not going to fix everything because, you know, when I look at it, you're probably looking at even if you look at a thousand dollars a day lost in revenue and, you know and in Hay River, people have been out for, you know, up to two and a half two and a half months. And then you take that you take the time into sort of go in and get your business back up and running and then you have to entice your clientele to come back. So you're looking at, you know, upwards of probably a loss of, you know, a hundred thousand dollars for some businesses. And, you know, it's going to vary. But it is a big chunk of change. So when we are talking the amounts that she noted, it's not a lot. It's something, though. And I'm hoping and, you know, I encourage the Minister as well, to go out there to the federal government and continue, you know, pounding the table and, you know, I'll do it from this side as well with our MP and see what we can do. Because right now, you know, we look at Hay River. We've had you know, we've had issues with well, with the fires and the flooding and now we've got issues with low water. So Hay River, I think, at the end of the day is going to have to reinvent itself. Manufacturing is a big thing. And right now our manufacturing sector has pretty well been decimated as well, so. But, you know, I'm glad that the, you know the department is going in the right direction, and Cabinet's going in the right direction. At least we're not going backwards. But, again, like my colleague said, you know, funds there for some of the people who did take the initiative to go out on their own and especially, you know, those in Hay River. You know, I talk about them because they're the ones that had to you know, that went through the fire. They're the ones that, you know, lost vehicles. They're the ones that lost almost lost their lives, lost pets, lost livestock. And, you know, it was a pretty scary ordeal. And, you know, I'm just lucky I didn't have to go through it. I was fortunate to be in the community, I guess, for that most of the evacuation I was on the list of, I guess, essential or nonessential essential workers for not only Hay River but for Enterprise as well. And I was able to, you know, use some of the skills that I had operating equipment, setting up camps. I even, you know, swept the floor in the airport and replaced some of the toilet paper and stuff like that so people had that in the morning. But, you know, so so everybody, you know any MLA could have done that. And, but it's you know, at the end of the day we got to we got to help people get back on their feet, and the only way to do it is usually money and other programs as well that whatever we can do. And that would be through, you know, ECE, DAP, and that, so. Yeah, so that's it. Thank you. It was just comments.

Thank you, Member for Hay River South. Are there any other comments? Member for Thebacha.

Thank you, Madam Chair. I just want to make a comment, and I want to thank the Minister of Finance and the Cabinet for making sure that the fire centre is going to be constructed for the community and for the Northwest Territories. After this fire season, I think it's extremely important that we save all the data, and we support the people that work in that centre. We have some really incredible staff in that centre, and they work for the whole Northwest Territories and helped with the first with the first responders with especially with making sure that our communities were safe this summer, and we went back to our homes some of us. Some lost homes, and I'm very sorry that that happened to some of the communities.

Finance must be a tough job because I know how it is when things are, you know, not all in the in the black and you have to decide on what is important and what isn't. And I'm sure that people all when this budget was put together that people thought about it very carefully. And of course I like the budget. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you, Member for Thebacha. Are there any further comments? Member for Nunakput.

Madam Chair, I just want to, again, thank the Finance Minister for this because I think this is the final payment for my school so I will be in support of my budget for Mangilaluk school in Tuk, and then there's other couple other few projects in the communities I represent. And, you know, just thank you for all the consideration and all the what we've been through with that project. And I just I really hope in the next go around, we get two trailers for the portables. I wanted four but there was supposed to they said they'll give me two, but I'm still waiting. But just for that for that in itself, I'm going to be supporting the budget. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you, Member for Nunakput. Member for Great Slave.

Thank you, Madam Chair. I won't go on and on about the budget either. But I just wanted to say that one thing that I really like about this budget is all the roadwork that's in it. And what I really, really like about the roads and bridge work is a lot of it is 100 percent funded. And I think and will give kudos on that. I think any time we can bring in 100 percent dollars to our territory, it's only a good thing. And also just to point out, we can't take road money and build houses with it. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you. Any further comments? Seeing none. Does committee agree that you've concluded consideration of Tabled Document 97319(2), 20242025 Capital Estimates? Member for Frame Lake.

Merci, Madam la Presidente. I move that consideration of Tabled Document 97319(2), Capital Estimates 20242025, be now concluded and that Tabled Document 97319(2) be reported and recommended as ready for further consideration in formal session through the form of an appropriation bill. Mahsi, Madam Chair.

Thank you. The motion is just being distributed. I always jump the gun on that one.

The motion is in order. To the motion.

Question.

Question has been called. All those in favour? All those opposed? Abstentions? The motion is carried. Tabled Document 97319(2) will be reported as ready for consideration in the formal session through the form of an appropriation bill.

Carried

Minister of Finance.

You know what, Madam Chair, since you've turned it back to me, I was remiss to not thank yourself and the chair of the AOC more directly. It actually has made the process let's go ahead and say fun. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Well, thank you. Committee, thank you, Minister. And there's no witnesses. So we'll continue with our next item.

Committee, we've agreed to consider Tabled Document 97419(2), Supplementary Estimates (Operations Expenditures), No. 3, 20232024. And I will remind the Members that we considered all of the detail within the document on September 29th. Does the Minister of Finance have any opening remarks?

I do, Madam Chair. Thank you. Madam Chair, this is an unusual supplementary estimates request following a very unusual, and I hope unique, summer for the Northwest Territories.

Low water levels have made the annual barging resupply much more costly. Low water levels have also meant that we've been burning more diesel to provide electricity throughout the Northwest Territories, which is much more costly to the GNWT. And, meanwhile, early in the season, flooding also required emergency response.

Madam Chair, these emergency costs alone would not have required this supplementary request or supplementary estimates because we build in contingency when we put forward a proposed borrowing appropriation at the main estimates stage. In fact, even adding a difficult fire season would not have led to this request.

However, the dryness we are experiencing has contributed to the worst wildfire season we have ever experienced and lead to multiple evacuations for Hay River and K'atlodeeche First Nation and then, ultimately, to the evacuation in total of almost 70 percent of the population from eight different communities with most having to cross into other jurisdictions. Madam Chair, this summer was beyond being merely difficult.

This level of emergency and emergencies and the amount of financial output required to pay emergency responders, for example, and emergency services was extraordinary. Therefore, to ensure that we continue to have adequate cash available to pay all of the invoices that will be coming in over the next few weeks, we are requesting this supplementary borrowing appropriation in order to provide a cushion.

This supplementary request, to be clear, is not a new approval to incur additional expenses. It is only to ensure that we would have the cash available to pay the bills that we have already been approved to incur. For example, during our oneday emergency session, the Legislative Assembly approved an appropriation to the Department of Environment and Climate Change for $75 million to support the wildfire suppression costs. In order to ensure that we can pay all of the contractors and suppliers in cash, we are requesting this supplementary appropriation to the borrowing.

This request does not necessarily mean that we will end the fiscal year with significantly more debt than what was originally projected. We are expecting an advance from the federal government under the Disaster Assistance Financial Arrangement which will provide a significant cushion to our cash balance. We do not, however, know exactly when that cash will be received.

We do continue to monitor all of our expenses and revenues regularly, as we always do, as well as monitoring departmental variances as we have through the floods and previous fires. And as the costs will come in from this summer season, that work will continue. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you, Minister. Minister, did you wish to bring witnesses?

No, thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you. Committee, do you have any comments? Member for Frame Lake.

Yeah, thanks, Madam Chair. I've got a couple questions if I can. Is this a onetime increase, or is this a permanent increase to the borrowing limit? Thanks, Madam Chair.

Thank you. Minister.

Madam Chair, this is not an increase to the borrowing limit. I'm happy to clarify that. So the borrowing limit that's imposed by the federal government is separate and apart, and I certainly do not have the authority to increase that, which is imposed by the federal government. And within our fiscal responsibility policy, we created our own internal limit to give ourselves room that if we come up upon our own internally imposed limit, which is the cushion below the federal limit, that would then trigger within our own processes a requirement to consider what we would then do lest we in fact get to that federal limit. And I can say that, quite intentionally, while we wanted to give enough of a cushion so that given the election period and given the blackout period that is associated with it, that the Department of Finance could go about their business paying all of our contractors and invoices. So we've sought a limit that is under our own imposed limit and does not approach the federal borrowing limit. Thank you.

Thank you, Minister. Member for Frame Lake.

Yeah, thank you, Madam Chair. Yeah, sorry. I misspoke; I'm really tired. But is this a onetime increase to the shortterm borrowing limit? Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you. Minister.

Thank you, Madam Chair. Also happy to clarify that, Madam Chair. I do think these are all questions that folks may have generally in the public. So the main estimates every year has included upon it is a page that has all of the borrowing and every year, including when we do the next main estimates process or when the next Assembly does the main estimates process, that page will have on it a new borrowing plan. That borrowing plan would take into account our cash balances for the in terms of shortterm borrowing, it would take into account the cash balances that we're at once we know what advances we might have received from the federal government or what other financial supports we might receive from the federal government. So every year we go through this process with main estimates. It considers again, it considers all of what's coming in and all of what is expected to go out. So the main estimates is where you will see the new shortterm borrowing year over year. Thank you.

Thank you. Member for Frame Lake.

Yeah, thanks, Madam Chair. I think that was a detailed explanation of yes, this is a onetime increase. But maybe I'll just turn it back to the Minister. Thanks.

Minister.

This is a onetime thing, Madam Chair.

Thank you. Member for Frame Lake.

Thanks, Madam Chair. I love clarity. I want to thank the Minister for that. And, yeah, it'll be up to the next batch of MLAs to watch that line going forward. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you. Committee, do you agree that sorry, are there any other further comments? Do you agree that you've concluded consideration of Tabled Document 97419(2), Supplementary Estimates (operations Expenditures), No. 3, 20232024?

Agreed.