Debates of October 13, 2004 (day 19)

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, my questions are for the Premier, in follow-up to Mr. Braden’s questions with respect to comments that the Premier recently made that were attributed to him in the media. I will just paraphrase; it was to the effect that without a resource revenue sharing agreement with Ottawa, the pipeline would not go ahead. I have to tell you I was somewhat surprised to read that, given some of our previous discussions, but I was pleased because I made it very clear in other communications with the Premier that I believe that for us to proceed without our rightful share of the royalties from our non-renewable resources is not a good deal for the Northwest Territories. Having said that, I also want to clarify that I am not against the pipeline. I am pro-development, but not at any cost and without the kinds of benefits in place for northerners that need to be in place before we proceed. Mr. Braden raised a good point when he said the diamonds are going out, the gas and oil activity is marching on and what incentive does the federal government have to come to the table to have the royalties discussion with us. What do we have at our disposal to bring them to that discussion? Thank you.

Thank you, Mrs. Groenewegen. The honourable Premier, Mr. Handley.

Return To Question 212-15(3): Incentive For Devolution Negotiations

Mr. Speaker, while it’s true that the federal government can probably just go ahead and permit the building of the Mackenzie pipeline in spite of concerns, objectives or issues that are raised in the North, they can expropriate land and do what they feel is in the national interest. That is not the way the federal government wants to do this. That is why, Mr. Speaker, I understand that Minister Anne McLellan has been given the lead on this one. She is to work out a way to have the pipeline move ahead with the support of northerners. So what does the federal government want? They want our support as northerners. Mr. Speaker, I can tell you that the Prime Minister very much recognizes the importance of the North, and the Northwest Territories in particular, to all Canadians. He wants to see that pipeline go ahead. He does not, from his words to me, want to see it go over in spite of objectives from us. The only thing we have is our support. The federal government could license it and just run right over us if they wanted to, but I don’t believe it will go that way.

I am also, Mr. Speaker, very much in support of the pipeline, but the same as Mrs. Groenewegen, I am not in support of it at any cost. There has to be a benefit to us. It’s our future. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Handley. Supplementary, Mrs. Groenewegen.

Supplementary To Question 212-15(3): Incentive For Devolution Negotiations

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I want to thank the Premier for that as well. I guess I am just not as optimistic as he is, given the federal government is holding all the cards on this. I just can’t think of a reason why they would want to be nice to us. It sounds like it could proceed over our objectives anyway. I know you said they don’t want to, but the fact is it could. So I think we need to assure northerners how far we are prepared to go to protect the interest of the Northwest Territories in this scenario.

The Premier referred to an interim agreement on resource revenue sharing and also the fact that there was supposed to be a meeting of the Aboriginal Summit this week, but it couldn’t take place. Does the Premier then have a clear mandate from our aboriginal partners, our leaders, our grand chiefs, chiefs, to proceed to negotiate an interim agreement with the federal government? Thank you.

Thank you, Mrs. Groenewegen. Mr. Handley.

Further Return To Question 212-15(3): Incentive For Devolution Negotiations

Mr. Speaker, I don’t yet have what I would consider to be a clear mandate from all the aboriginal leaders to negotiate a final interim resource revenue sharing agreement. I do have the majority of aboriginal leaders onside with the concept. They were going to get together for two days this week to work out more of the detail and I was going to meet with them on Thursday evening, myself and Minister Roland. I understand that that meeting now is postponed probably until next week.

Mr. Speaker, I want to work in partnership with the aboriginal leaders in pursuing this. I don’t want to just have our government go ahead and sort of bowl over the aboriginal leaders, any more than we want the federal government to do that to us. So I want to work with them, I want to move this quickly, I am keeping the aboriginal leaders informed of everything that I am doing and hopefully we will continue to have their support because I think we all, in principle, agree with the need to have more revenues stay here. We don’t want to have to wait five years for that to happen. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Handley. Supplementary, Mrs. Groenewegen.

Supplementary To Question 212-15(3): Incentive For Devolution Negotiations

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the Premier is absolutely right, we do not want to wait five years. There is no sense in closing the barn door after the horses are already out and I am just afraid that there is a stampede in a certain direction here. I am not consoled or assured that we are going to capture the benefits from the resources for our people and, Mr. Speaker, I would like to ask the Premier if he could commit to this House and to the public that getting this agreement in place as soon as possible is his number one priority as the Premier of this government; that in fact other things of lesser importance could be set aside so that he could focus his attention, I would almost go as far as to say exclusively, on getting this deal done. It is of paramount importance. Thank you.

Thank you, Mrs. Groenewegen. Mr. Handley

Further Return To Question 212-15(3): Incentive For Devolution Negotiations

Mr. Speaker, I agree with Mrs. Groenewegen that this is of paramount importance. I can assure you that it is the number one thing that I wake up thinking about in the morning and that I go to bed thinking about when I go to sleep. It is very critical for us that we have the pipeline. First of all, we have got to have the Mackenzie Valley pipeline. If we diddle around and the Alaska pipeline goes first, we will all have nothing in terms of resource revenue from that.

So we need to negotiate with the federal government an arrangement that doesn’t see the roughly $23.7 billion of government revenues all flow or largely flow to the federal government and the other provinces who supply material. Mr. Speaker, out of every dollar that is spent or that is received in government revenue, in a study that was done for us by Wright Mansell consultants in this business, shows that we get roughly four cents on the dollar right now to keep in the North. That is not a fair deal and, Mr. Speaker, I can tell you that this is the most important thing on my agenda. While I have lots of other things to do, I will continue to see that this one receives priority. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Handley. Your final supplementary, Mrs. Groenewegen.

Supplementary To Question 212-15(3): Incentive For Devolution Negotiations

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I am glad to hear that commitment and I hope the people of the Northwest Territories are listening to that because the Premier says that we need the pipeline, and we do need the pipeline, but we do not need it under the current regime of the agreements that we have with Ottawa at this time. Is the Premier prepared to talk tough? At one time, before the application was filed, I was hearing from some people that it’s a sensitive time, we don’t want to scare them away. But this pipeline is going to do nothing but cost us money if we do not have our rightful share of the resources and royalties from it and the benefits from it. It’s going to cost us money, there is no sense in bragging about a pipeline if it’s going to put us into debt and put us into the hole and have a negative impact on our people. So I just want to ask the Premier, is he prepared…Don’t be worried about offending the producers and offending industry. Is he willing to talk tough on our behalf on this particular subject? Thank you.

Thank you, Mrs. Groenewegen. Mr. Handley.

Further Return To Question 212-15(3): Incentive For Devolution Negotiations

Mr. Speaker, I can assure this House that I will talk tough on it, the Finance Minister will talk tough on it, and our government will talk tough at the same time. We are not ones to issue hollow threats. We will negotiate, we will negotiate strongly, but if it comes down to it, then we have to be tough with the federal government if it goes there.

I know, Mr. Speaker, that the Prime Minister’s eyes are very much on the North. He has talked about working with us on a vision for the North, on developing a northern strategy. So I like the signals I hear coming, and I am sure that we can be tough and be good negotiators who come up with a deal that everybody can be happy with and is not going to jeopardize the pipeline. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.