Debates of October 20, 2004 (day 24)

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, my question today is to the Minister of FMBS. It is further to the questions that I asked yesterday, which I am afraid I wasn’t as clear, so the Minister was able to get away with very vague answers. I want to re-ask that. Mr. Speaker, I learned recently that, in fact, the appeal process we have for the GNWT employees are very one-sided. It is a process that the union has not agreed to. It is a process where union representatives can’t even sit in on an appeal of an employee and that there are lots of areas step by step in the appeal process that the union does not agree with, but it has not been able to make any inroads in changing to address that imbalance.

Mr. Speaker, in answering my questions yesterday, Mr. Roland said something like this, and I quote from unedited Hansard on page 1899, “The area of staffing appeals is one area that we recognize has some problems, and we're beginning work on potential changes to that process and setting it up so that we can, in fact, look at trying to streamline this and be a little more proactive and productive in this area,” et cetera. My point of this quote is, Mr. Speaker, when you hear something like “we are getting there” and “we are discussing the potential changes” and “we will look into it,” we know that it will be 10 or 20 years before we see any action. So I would like to know, Mr. Speaker, what the Minister could offer in terms of any kind of concrete action he has taken as Minister of FMBS to address this imbalance. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Ms. Lee. Minister responsible for the FMBS, the Honourable Mr. Roland.

Return To Question 266-15(3): Staffing Appeals Process

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the work we have done around staffing appeals has been a slow process, but we have been working on it. We are prepared to make some changes. We have listened to the AOC and its previous recommendations on the concerns that were around the whole issue of staffing appeals. So, number one, we have recognized that there are problems; number two, we have listened to the recommendations, and there was a report done which we are taking pieces of that and going forward with that. I can’t give a date as to when this would actually come into play, but I am hoping to have a process established and an agreement from not only the Cabinet side but, as well, the Members of this House that this, in fact, is the right avenue. We have discussed this, put out some options, and informed Members of the potential changes that are coming up. Right now, I am hoping to bring a legislative proposal forward. We missed the timeline for this sitting, but hopefully at our next sitting we will have a legislative proposal that Members can look at and make comment on. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Roland. Supplementary, Ms. Lee.

Supplementary To Question 266-15(3): Staffing Appeals Process

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, as Members, we get so much information that we are not always certain if we might have just missed something when something comes up. I believe the consensus in AOC is that this whole issue has not been brought to the committee yet. We are well aware that the government is moving ahead with centralizing human resources sections of the government, which is what most of the Members in this House wanted. Going by what people are saying on the street, it is moving forward. I am really thinking that any changes to the appeal process should be part and parcel of the overall changes that are taking place. Mr. Speaker, I am still not hearing any kind of time frame. Even before he introduces his legislative proposal, perhaps he could tell us about…He just said he talked to the Members. Is the union involved with this, for example? Maybe I could just go with that question. Thank you.

Thank you, Ms. Lee. Mr. Roland.

Further Return To Question 266-15(3): Staffing Appeals Process

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I should clarify, a legislative proposal was developed. We were hoping to actually bring the legislation forward for this sitting, but unfortunately we weren’t able to make that timeline. We will hopefully have it ready for the next sitting that we have as an Assembly. On the existing process, there is right now room for a union representative at the table. So there is that space right now when a member is going through a staffing appeal process; on the grievance side, especially, there is room for that. We recognize there are problems. We’ve worked on it. There were presentations made to AOC of the day. A legislative proposal has been reviewed, and we are coming forward with that actual legislation to make the changes hopefully in the next sitting. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Roland. Supplementary, Ms. Lee.

Supplementary To Question 266-15(3): Staffing Appeals Process

First of all, Mr. Speaker, I think what the Minister said about the fact that there is a union member in the appeal process, I think the Minister knows that that union member or whoever sits is not there to represent the employee who is going through the appeal. The union member is there as sort of a prop to make sure that the employee…They have a very negligent role to play, which is a complaint of the union. Second of all, Mr. Speaker, this government has not been forwarding a lot of legislative proposals. It hasn’t been a crowded agenda. I believe that Members here are always ready. A legislative proposal could be dropped off to us at any time. I wonder if the Minister could commit to introducing this this week if he isn’t ready. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Ms. Lee. Mr. Roland.

Further Return To Question 266-15(3): Staffing Appeals Process

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. First of all, for the record, we do not view union representatives or those that attend with employees or potential employees as props. They are part of a process. They are allowed to be there if requested by the member appealing. We weren’t able to make the timelines for the legislation. It is still in the works, so we weren’t able to finish it off. We were hoping to have it ready for this sitting. As I said, we will be bringing it forward during the next sitting we have. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Roland. Final supplementary, Ms. Lee.

Supplementary To Question 266-15(3): Staffing Appeals Process

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. We could argue about this, but let me tell you the union has a designate, and that designate is not permitted to represent the appellant. I think that is another way of saying that it is a prop. Mr. Speaker, the Minister is not saying this, but I am getting a feeling that there is a process being worked out that may not be agreeable to the union. It is going to be maybe an opinion process that would not involve the employer or the union, it would just be a whole third-party process. Maybe that works for us, but I think the Minister is making a big mistake if he is not including the union in discussing this. Sooner or later, you are going to have to deal with that. He did not answer whether or not he is talking to the union about this. Could I get a commitment for the Minister to meet with the union and discuss issues so that whatever outcome comes out is not going to be backfiring on them? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Ms. Lee. Mr. Roland.

Further Return To Question 266-15(3): Staffing Appeals Process

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the union has been consulted in this process. The legislative proposal was brought forward to the committee. Based on that, we have gone ahead and drafted legislation. We are not quite finished with it. It is coming forward. As we feel, there has been consultation enough that we feel comfortable in developing legislation. Thank you.