Debates of October 25, 2004 (day 27)

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like to direct a question to the Minister responsible for the Housing Corporation and it’s in follow up to my colleague, Ms. Lee’s question about the market housing initiative. My understanding, Mr. Speaker, is that one of the reasons this program was undertaken was to, almost on an emergency basis, provide communities that had housing shortages with units for essential public services workers; teachers and nurses were especially highlighted. I would like to ask the Minister of the units that are now on site in various communities, how many of these are indeed occupied by those intended tenants, the essential tenants, such as teachers and nurses? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Braden. The honourable Minister responsible for the Housing Corporation, Mr. Krutko.

Return To Question 302-15(3): Occupancy Of Market Housing Units

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, right now I can’t state exactly how many units we do have occupied, but we have received some 14 applicants for leasing those units, for professions in the Northwest Territories, so we have received these applications from 14 individuals. But right now until the project is totally completed and we have the units occupied, we can’t say what it is. If the Member wants, I can get him that information.

Thank you, Mr. Krutko. Supplementary, Mr. Braden.

Supplementary To Question 302-15(3): Occupancy Of Market Housing Units

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Of course, I would welcome that information. I would like to ask further though, the corporation undertook at a considerable urgency and expense to put these units on site. Did it really know which communities required these units and whether the intended audience was indeed going to be satisfied with the services? Did the Housing Corporation really do its homework before engaging in this program? Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Braden. Mr. Krutko.

Further Return To Question 302-15(3): Occupancy Of Market Housing Units

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, there was a call that went out to all agencies and different departments to see where there was a problem with regard to accommodating professionals in the different communities. The communities that were picked were Tulita, Fort Good Hope, Norman Wells, Lutselk'e, Fort Resolution, Fort Providence and Fort Liard. Those were the communities that seemed to have the most systemic problem of attracting teachers because of the problems with accommodations. Those are communities that were picked for the first round, and there were other communities identified for the second phase which are for the upcoming 22. So these communities were picked on the basis of where the most need was, and these communities that were picked were mostly on the barge transportation system so the units were barged into those particular communities this summer. The other ones were supposed to be sent to those other communities through the different road systems. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Krutko. Supplementary, Mr. Braden.

Supplementary To Question 302-15(3): Occupancy Of Market Housing Units

Mr. Speaker, I find it a little unusual that the Minister can’t say at this point -- it is winter, it’s freeze-up, those units should be in place and occupied by now -- how many of them are indeed occupied by the people that they were supposed to serve. In light of that, how can the Housing Corporation continue with installing yet more units if we don’t even know if the first have reached the intended audience? Why are we proceeding? Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Braden. Mr. Krutko.

Further Return To Question 302-15(3): Occupancy Of Market Housing Units

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, as I stated to the earlier question, we are going to do an evaluation of the project once the project is completed. The project has not been completed. Some of the units just arrived in Tulita just a couple of weeks ago. They were on the last barge. So until we actually have all the projects completed, the sites are being developed, the units are open for business, then we will have a better picture of how this program is working or not. Then through the reporting mechanism, we will look at what the problems were and avoid those problems from happening in the future.

Thank you, Mr. Krutko. Supplementary, Mr. Braden.

Supplementary To Question 302-15(3): Occupancy Of Market Housing Units

Mr. Speaker, there was a news account a few weeks ago now, about I believe it was in one of the South Slave communities that a teacher who should have been one of the target tenants had to decline the unit because he found it unaffordable by the time it was installed and in place in that given community. This is the kind of thing that indicates to me that the Housing Corporation perhaps hadn’t done its homework. This is what I’m trying to determine, Mr. Speaker, is that so far we don’t have too much of an indication that the initial part of the program is working. Why should we continue with the other part? Thank you.

---Applause

Thank you, Mr. Braden. Mr. Krutko.

Further Return To Question 302-15(3): Occupancy Of Market Housing Units

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I think that we have to clarify the notion. This is not subsidised housing like the government housing program in the past. This is market housing that was put forth as a business venture from the Housing Corporation. We are there to recoup the investment that we made by way of the rents that we would be charging. Also, another point I would like to make is that the rates that we are setting for these units are less than what we are charging to clients in social housing. So on one hand you are saying that we are charging too much, but on the other hand is it fair to the residents of those communities that the rates that we are charging are less than the going market rate right here in Yellowknife?

Thank you, Mr. Krutko. Time for question period has expired. Mr. Braden, I will allow you one final supplementary.

Supplementary To Question 302-15(3): Occupancy Of Market Housing Units

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The Minister’s explanation is, I think, off track here. The costs, regardless of how they compare with social housing or public housing, are still deemed to be unaffordable by some of these tenants. So I would again appeal to the Minister to give us a good explanation as to why we aren’t checking or rearranging or realigning this program now, so that it does indeed help those communities that really need it. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Braden. Mr. Krutko.

Further Return To Question 302-15(3): Occupancy Of Market Housing Units

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, in regards to the way the price came about and exactly who the client is, I would like to state again this is not staff housing on behalf of the Government of the Northwest Territories. This is a business decision that was made by the corporation to go into those communities where the business sector does not want to make that investment. We made the investment, but we will not go back into staff housing until that decision is made by the Government of the Northwest Territories.

Basically, the whole idea of the rates is based on an arrangement between the employees of the Government of the Northwest Territories and their unions where they have a northern allowance which is built into their salary base, which again is there for the purpose of looking for accommodations. So there is that arrangement which is built into their wages. But, again, I think that, until this project is completed and we do the evaluation, then we can see exactly if this program is working or not. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.